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NY, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:06:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DangerJ:
Read first and this page, skipped middle - do we have a link to the docs that I could read without downloading the app? Very first post. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:09:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Tag
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:10:05 AM EDT
[#3]
tag
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:12:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Excellent. I'll be donating tonight.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:13:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Oh I'm so motherfucking tagging this!
Good luck on the lawsuit!
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:16:32 AM EDT
[#6]
Going out shooting right now to celebrate.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:19:09 AM EDT
[#7]
OST
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:26:35 AM EDT
[#8]
In for the third hole
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:27:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryPDF of the Holder summons? |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:28:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: xXGearheadXx]
[#10]
I'm in. Funds donated, and i'll give more over time.
I keenly remember a similar situation to this Prior to the Colorado recalls. Funds were needed to collect signatures for the recall petition, we donated, and we were successful in removing two of those anti gun @$$clowns from office and forcing the resignation of another. That was a big deal then. I'm worried that in the end, they will simply refuse to hear this case, or a Clinton/Obama appointed judge will rule against it under "because fuck you, i can" reasoning. In any case, nothing will happen unless we try. There were a lot of naysayers during the CO recalls, and we still got em. Godspeed! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:32:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Where can I send you a donation?
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:34:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ClatuVertanictu:
Where can I send you a donation? http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:35:05 AM EDT
[#13]
wanted to do this for years, just didn't have the money ( or cajones )
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:35:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By ClatuVertanictu:
Where can I send you a donation? http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk This should be in the first post as well. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:36:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Great timing. Love that they have the 60 days to work on this. Enjoy your holidays boys.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:40:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ScorpioMk:
This should be in the first post as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ScorpioMk:
Originally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By ClatuVertanictu:
Where can I send you a donation? http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk This should be in the first post as well. I'm pretty sure he is really busy, but will get to it asap. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:47:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC: Originally Posted By ClatuVertanictu: Where can I send you a donation? http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk I really want an SBR, and a happy switch. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:49:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Bumbinski
And an admittedly small donation added. 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:49:12 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By justinjluke:
State law trumps federal, unless it regards taxation for federal so there is like 6k pages of ins and outs... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By justinjluke:
Originally Posted By cone256:
Originally Posted By DaveM4P99:
Sooo...if we can win a federal lawsuit testing the constitutionality of full auto guns...how the hell can ANY state ban semi-auto "assault weapons?" Ahem...NY...Ahem Cuomo...Ahem unSAFE act..Ahem NYC who bans about 95% of the long guns suitable for self defense. That's a good question. Perhaps it could help those of us in anti-freedom states State law trumps federal, unless it regards taxation for federal so there is like 6k pages of ins and outs... Except when it comes to the Constitution. The states do not have the right to fuck with Second Amendment, and neither does the government. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 11:52:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Nice!
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:00:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Best news I have read in a while
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DE, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:04:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Fucking in fell asleep last night before i could finish reading. Read the complaint, and with my limited understanding of legalese, this looks damn solid to me.
I also second the notion of the fun setting being labeld "NOLO" 
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:07:30 PM EDT
[#23]
OST, lets get this shit done!!!
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:08:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By blackhawk35440: Good luck and thank you This x1000000000000 |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:16:23 PM EDT
[#25]
This doesn't belong on page 2.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:18:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
PDF of the Holder summons? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
PDF of the Holder summons? Printed for hopeful historical value. 
I may even frame it! |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:22:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
TL:DR Commie |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:23:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DstryrOfWrlds:
Printed for hopeful historical value.
I may even frame it! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DstryrOfWrlds:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
PDF of the Holder summons? Printed for hopeful historical value.
I may even frame it! I already did
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:24:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: williewvr]
[#29]
Is it just me or do the subgun classifieds seem like the prices are dropping on macs and other low end guns?
If so is it possible some of the "investors" are hedging? Edit: I'm hoping my MAC drops in value to the amount I paid. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:24:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
PDF of the Holder summons? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
PDF of the Holder summons? I'm hosting PDFs on a fat pipe machine for people that hate scribd. Both PDFs are up there. I did the same thing for the Cav Arms case, |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:31:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Have you received a response to your inquiry about individuals getting approvals for machine guns after 1986?
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:32:18 PM EDT
[#32]
Godspeed gentleman.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:35:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Between this case and the critical OIG report here that came out late yesterday, ATF is having a hell of a Halloween.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:38:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Not sure how to word this, but I'm going to give it a shot anyway.
Everyone participating in this, whether it be actively or through donations and/or moral support, wants to have the freedom to exercise the rights that we already constitutionally have and are trying to do so peacefully and within the existing channels of our established legal system. To me, that is huge. To take the point a bit further, what mancow posted on page 6 highlighted the chasm between the govt and us. Originally Posted By mancow:
If this whole thing isn't a prime example of rule by fiat nothing is. They literally define and mold the law at will as seen fit to their benefit with no mention of even a remedy to account for the demand of surrender of the rifle (if it had been purchased). A high school government student could see the violations. It's the simplest evidence that there is no true rule of law anymore. I couldn't agree more. A few posts later, mancow makes another thought provoking post. Originally Posted By mancow:
Like anything else, "for the children". Case closed...next! (as in Scalia's comment on limitations in Heller). That's what scares me. Where I'm going with this, I think, is what happens if we get a ruling like mancow fears. What does it tell us, the citizen that knows that we are being denied our constitutional rights and are trying to go about correcting that peacefully? Where do we go from here? It's a spooky scenario. Not one that I would shrink from, but it's definitely thought provoking. I genuinely hope that reasonable people on the .gov side give that some serious thought. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:41:24 PM EDT
[#35]
fuck yeah
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:42:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorthBridge:
Where I'm going with this, I think, is what happens if we get a ruling like mancow fears. What does it tell us, the citizen that knows that we are being denied our constitutional rights and are trying to go about correcting that peacefully? Where do we go from here? It's a spooky scenario. Not one that I would shrink from, but it's definitely thought provoking. I genuinely hope that reasonable people on the .gov side give that some serious thought. One does not discuss such matters in public. We are the good guys. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:44:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krpind:
I'm genuinely curious how the government would argue against it and not conflict with themselves. I would really like an attorney to take the .gov side as a devil's advocate and give us some idea as to what possible positions they could likely take. Of course wait for Nolo to say he is cool with something like that. I'm not a lawyer, but even I can see the downfalls to whatever position they take on any issue. They so painted themselves into a box and locked the door from both the inside and outside. lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By mancow:
Just finished reading the entire document and exhibits.
If this whole thing isn't a prime example of rule by fiat nothing is. They literally define and mold the law at will as seen fit to their benefit with no mention of even a remedy to account for the demand of surrender of the rifle (if it had been purchased). A high school government student could see the violations. It's the simplest evidence that there is no true rule of law anymore. I'm genuinely curious how the government would argue against it and not conflict with themselves. I would really like an attorney to take the .gov side as a devil's advocate and give us some idea as to what possible positions they could likely take. Of course wait for Nolo to say he is cool with something like that. I'm not a lawyer, but even I can see the downfalls to whatever position they take on any issue. They so painted themselves into a box and locked the door from both the inside and outside. lol How? The same way any immense government machine replete with tyranny vying to maintain power fights a legal battle: they do not address the actual argument and instead attack a flank via the large system they've constructed. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:46:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
Is it just me or do the subgun classifieds seem like the prices are dropping on macs and other low end guns? If so is it possible some of the "investors" are hedging? Edit: I'm hoping my MAC drops in value to the amount I paid. I've been watching the market over the past few months a little more closely than usual. I've seen dips in prices on other stuff as well, like HK sears and Colt M16s. We're not talking much, generally less than 5% on most stuff if they drop. It's really dependent on the buyer and the particular offering...there have been some interesting swings. But I don't think it's related to this honestly. Fact of the matter is that this site represents a very small portion of all the machine gun owners in the country, and potential owners. Same goes for subguns and sturmgewehr. The lawsuit is huge on here, but it really hasn't been nationally recognized by like 95% of potential or current owners. I think that will slowly start to change, but I wouldn't bet on seeing huge price drops. As NOLO himself admitted earlier in the other thread, the odds of this being successful are dreadfully low, despite what we all want. I own two mgs myself and I'm not rushing out at the moment to sell them. Would I like to see it repealed? Absolutely. Do I think it at all likely? Not really, despite NOLO's approach and well-pled complaint. I'm just really pessimistic about what courts are going to say and how they're going to interpret the powers of the BATFE and congress to interpret and administrate law in this area. I keep seeing congressional intent being a major stumbling block. And I think that there are a lot of other owners, buyers, etc. that believe the same. I still have donated a bit and will probably do in the future, but as far as hedging against it or seeing the market trend down? I haven't seen it and I don't plan on it...yet. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:46:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorthBridge:
Where I'm going with this, I think, is what happens if we get a ruling like mancow fears. What does it tell us, the citizen that knows that we are being denied our constitutional rights and are trying to go about correcting that peacefully? Where do we go from here? It's a spooky scenario. Not one that I would shrink from, but it's definitely thought provoking. I genuinely hope that reasonable people on the .gov side give that some serious thought. Trust me, I've given this a LOT of thought as well. Most often while my wife and our two small children are asleep upstairs, leaving me to wonder what their lives would be like if I agitate too much or too little. I'm getting ready to launch a new site (FB is already up, just need to get the site itself running) that I hope will get more people thinking about it, too, and willing to start standing up for themselves and standing with each other. "Spooky" is a good word. So is "chilling." A lot of people go on about "fo time" and crap like that but won't do something a simple as vote or make demands of their legislators or protest publicly to keep us from GETTING to "fo time." God help us all if we need to do more than that. But the only thing worse would be accepting that we were property, not free citizens. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:51:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Summons to Eric Holder and B Todd Jones in first post. https://www.scribd.com/doc/245098266/4-Summons-to-Holder-B-Todd The people are comin for you |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:55:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Mr. Hollis, you are a true Patriot! Great work, Nolo.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 12:55:20 PM EDT
[#43]
E
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By david05111:
I've been watching the market over the past few months a little more closely than usual. I've seen dips in prices on other stuff as well, like HK sears and Colt M16s. We're not talking much, generally less than 5% on most stuff if they drop. It's really dependent on the buyer and the particular offering...there have been some interesting swings. But I don't think it's related to this honestly. Fact of the matter is that this site represents a very small portion of all the machine gun owners in the country, and potential owners. Same goes for subguns and sturmgewehr. The lawsuit is huge on here, but it really hasn't been nationally recognized by like 95% of potential or current owners. I think that will slowly start to change, but I wouldn't bet on seeing huge price drops. As NOLO himself admitted earlier in the other thread, the odds of this being successful are dreadfully low, despite what we all want. I own two mgs myself and I'm not rushing out at the moment to sell them. Would I like to see it repealed? Absolutely. Do I think it at all likely? Not really, despite NOLO's approach and well-pled complaint. I'm just really pessimistic about what courts are going to say and how they're going to interpret the powers of the BATFE and congress to interpret and administrate law in this area. I keep seeing congressional intent being a major stumbling block. And I think that there are a lot of other owners, buyers, etc. that believe the same. I still have donated a bit and will probably do in the future, but as far as hedging against it or seeing the market trend down? I haven't seen it and I don't plan on it...yet. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By david05111:
Originally Posted By williewvr:
Is it just me or do the subgun classifieds seem like the prices are dropping on macs and other low end guns? If so is it possible some of the "investors" are hedging? Edit: I'm hoping my MAC drops in value to the amount I paid. I've been watching the market over the past few months a little more closely than usual. I've seen dips in prices on other stuff as well, like HK sears and Colt M16s. We're not talking much, generally less than 5% on most stuff if they drop. It's really dependent on the buyer and the particular offering...there have been some interesting swings. But I don't think it's related to this honestly. Fact of the matter is that this site represents a very small portion of all the machine gun owners in the country, and potential owners. Same goes for subguns and sturmgewehr. The lawsuit is huge on here, but it really hasn't been nationally recognized by like 95% of potential or current owners. I think that will slowly start to change, but I wouldn't bet on seeing huge price drops. As NOLO himself admitted earlier in the other thread, the odds of this being successful are dreadfully low, despite what we all want. I own two mgs myself and I'm not rushing out at the moment to sell them. Would I like to see it repealed? Absolutely. Do I think it at all likely? Not really, despite NOLO's approach and well-pled complaint. I'm just really pessimistic about what courts are going to say and how they're going to interpret the powers of the BATFE and congress to interpret and administrate law in this area. I keep seeing congressional intent being a major stumbling block. And I think that there are a lot of other owners, buyers, etc. that believe the same. I still have donated a bit and will probably do in the future, but as far as hedging against it or seeing the market trend down? I haven't seen it and I don't plan on it...yet. I didn't see a big drop and only noticed it on low end items, which is what had me thinking about it. If you had told me in 85 that a MAC would hit $5000 I would of distanced myself from you as I would of been sure you were going to snap at some point. I'm hoping for a good outcome, but if we gain anything I'll be happy. The most probable outcome I can see is trusts get recognized as "people". |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:07:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WinterSoldier:
It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WinterSoldier:
Originally Posted By Undefined:
If the gun control fight were to be described as decades of trench warfare, this is equivalent of launching the Enola Gay on a course for the enemy's capital. 
The depth of my pleasure and satisfaction at being a tiny part of this is beyond my ability to express in words. I can only smile and remind myself that someday I will tell the tale to my son and his sons. It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:09:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Donation sent. Keep up the good fight.
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:09:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Originally Posted By WinterSoldier:
Originally Posted By Undefined:
If the gun control fight were to be described as decades of trench warfare, this is equivalent of launching the Enola Gay on a course for the enemy's capital.
The depth of my pleasure and satisfaction at being a tiny part of this is beyond my ability to express in words. I can only smile and remind myself that someday I will tell the tale to my son and his sons. It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. Boom. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO: We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO: Originally Posted By WinterSoldier: Originally Posted By Undefined: If the gun control fight were to be described as decades of trench warfare, this is equivalent of launching the Enola Gay on a course for the enemy's capital. The depth of my pleasure and satisfaction at being a tiny part of this is beyond my ability to express in words. I can only smile and remind myself that someday I will tell the tale to my son and his sons. It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:13:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Nagewaza624]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO: We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO: Originally Posted By WinterSoldier: Originally Posted By Undefined: If the gun control fight were to be described as decades of trench warfare, this is equivalent of launching the Enola Gay on a course for the enemy's capital. The depth of my pleasure and satisfaction at being a tiny part of this is beyond my ability to express in words. I can only smile and remind myself that someday I will tell the tale to my son and his sons. It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. BOOM! HEADSHOT! ETA: Again by minutes |
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:14:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Originally Posted By WinterSoldier:
Originally Posted By Undefined:
If the gun control fight were to be described as decades of trench warfare, this is equivalent of launching the Enola Gay on a course for the enemy's capital.
The depth of my pleasure and satisfaction at being a tiny part of this is beyond my ability to express in words. I can only smile and remind myself that someday I will tell the tale to my son and his sons. It is a Enola Gay alright, and the name is fitting, because they are about to bent over and fucked up the ass, with no lube... We should call you Enola also in that case. You seem ... familiar. 
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USA
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Posted: 10/31/2014 1:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: zanemasterx]
[#50]
It can go three ways:
1. They rule against him, but don't give the ATF power to arbitrarily revoke tax stamps. We are back at square one. Law enforcement loophole is carved out. 2. They rule in favor of the defendant, citing Miller. Machine guns are now able to be manufactured by unincorporated trusts. People can make machine guns with a form one now. 3. They give the ATF power to arbitrarily revoke stamps. We're fucked. |
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