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Posted: 8/29/2014 12:04:20 PM EDT

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."
View Quote


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:13:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."
View Quote


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/
View Quote

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......


Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:14:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




Like memphis?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:16:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Its pretty fucking sad when "journalists" cant spell and grammar check before publising. I wish I owned a paper. I'd fire you andd the editor for that shit.

use-of-force polices.. ? really? what a sad fucking state we are in....
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:17:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."
View Quote


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/
View Quote


There is more bullshit than information there.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:19:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Like memphis?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




Like memphis?


Yes, Memphis is the only choice in the entire United States.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:21:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:22:24 PM EDT
[#7]
I cannot find one specific example in the whole story.  That's  ridiculous.   I will say though that if the feds are running your dept by consent decree then you are fucked.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:22:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......


View Quote


They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?

They're trying to do the same thing to the local PD. This shit is happening everywhere.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:24:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Let me guess, now the pd would like me to ignore the fact that they are a bunch of aholes and "support" them now
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:25:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?
View Quote

I'm pretty sure whatever they paid in they can take with them.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:26:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Its pretty fucking sad when "journalists" cant spell and grammar check before publising. I wish I owned a paper. I'd fire you andd the editor for that shit.

use-of-force polices.. ? really? what a sad fucking state we are in....
View Quote


Er, this post is funny.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:27:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yes, Memphis is the only choice in the entire United States.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




Like memphis?


Yes, Memphis is the only choice in the entire United States.


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:28:11 PM EDT
[#14]
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:28:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.


They probably should have thought of that before they fucked up so bad the Feds had to get involved.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:30:21 PM EDT
[#16]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Its pretty fucking sad when "journalists" cant spell and grammar check before publising. I wish I owned a paper. I'd fire you andd the editor for that shit.



use-of-force polices.. ? really? what a sad fucking state we are in....
View Quote




 


Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:31:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.
View Quote

There was no point, just the usual whine.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:31:30 PM EDT
[#18]
So, officers, if it is really that bad, quit.

Two thirds of the nation is on some form of welfare, so no one will notice or care.

Quoted:

You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?
View Quote


Welcome to the 21st century dude.

Who is going to pay their retirement benefits?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:33:06 PM EDT
[#19]
From the article:

"To those individuals," Robart said, "I simply say: 'Get over it. The train has left the station. It's not going to turn around. The good old days are not coming back.' "
View Quote


Here is a quote for you too Robart:

That's right, we got to be judged. But case-by-case, circumstance by circumstance, and human being by human being. You can pass judgment on law enforcement officers in general, but they are going to do the same on the public, oh yea. And God help us if they feel the public let them down. And the day you convince the average policeman that it isn't worthwhile to go to the dark alley, or stop a suspicious vehicle, or question something it is his instinct and training telling maybe evil then that’s the day this country starts to go, we wouldn’t be the first, we wouldn’t be the last.
View Quote


Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:33:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

There was no point, just the usual whine.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.

There was no point, just the usual whine.

Try this
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

 

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its pretty fucking sad when "journalists" cant spell and grammar check before publising. I wish I owned a paper. I'd fire you andd the editor for that shit.

use-of-force polices.. ? really? what a sad fucking state we are in....

 



screw you man! (no homo)  I'm all hopped up on drugs and can barely think much less speel
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:37:43 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm trying to get worked up over this, but it's hard since there is absolutely no info on what these policies are. Could be good, could be bad. I don't know whether to root for the city or the cops.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:37:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

SEATTLE — In an open revolt, more than 100 Seattle police officers suing to block new use-of-force polices assert that high-level city, police and union officials privately agree with their contention that the court-ordered changes put them and the public in danger.

But the officers who filed the suit aren't naming those high-level officials, saying only that the officials told them they won't seek to alter the policies because of the "politics" of the situation and the "perceived inability" to fight federally mandated reforms, the officers allege in newly filed court papers.

"This means that the City is now knowingly and willingly playing politics with Plaintiffs' lives and the lives of the law-abiding citizens of Seattle," the officers wrote in a 34-page amended complaint filed late Wednesday with U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman.

The complaint, which added new allegations to a May 28 lawsuit to block the policies, ratcheted up the court fight with its fresh allegations of cowering officials bowing to federal demands and vague claims that the policies have led to more assaults on officers.

Sprinkled with more pointed language than the initial suit, the new complaint accuses the federal monitor tracking the reforms, Merrick Bobb, of carrying out a "zealous agenda" to restrict the ability of officers to use force and make reasonable, split-second decisions.

Bobb is one of a number of defendants in the suit, which also names city and federal officials.

The complaint also lambastes U.S. District Judge James Robart, who is overseeing the reforms and found the policies to be constitutional, for approving the changes in a "cursory, one-and-one-half-page order."

The filing, which came a week after attorneys for the city and Bobb moved to dismiss the lawsuit, poses a new challenge for Police Chief Kathleen O'Toole, a strong supporter of the reforms who, shortly before being sworn into the job June 23, met with four of the officers to convey her concern that their suit had created the appearance that they were resisting reform and hindering efforts to restore community trust.

It also opened an old wound, alleging that the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) improperly wrung the policies out of the city based on a discredited and "fundamentally flawed finding" that Seattle officers had engaged in a pattern or practice of using excessive force.

The policies, which went into effect Jan. 1, grew out of a July 2012 consent decree between the city and the Justice Department, which required the police department to adopt sweeping reforms to curtail excessive force and biased policing.

The officers challenging the policies, primarily patrol officers in the 1,236-member department, brought their suit without an attorney or the support of their union, the Seattle Police Officers' Guild.

In a statement Thursday, guild President Ron Smith said, "As I have stated before, there are severe flaws with the current Use of Force policy, but litigation is not the prudent route to achieve any changes to the policy. The review period for this policy is currently open, and input is being solicited from the rank and file on how to potentially improve the policy."


www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/7511844-Seattle-cops-say-city-playing-politics-with-their-lives/

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




You mean like throw away their retirement and go start from scratch somewhere else?



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:38:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?
View Quote


From what I saw in another article, the UOF policy was made so long, complicated and even contradictory that its basically impossible to understand. Which may be by design so that any use of force incident can be used against the officer.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?
View Quote

I read it and the link and I still don't know.  What is the change???
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:39:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Try this
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.

There was no point, just the usual whine.

Try this

I already read that, it's as meaningless now as it was when I first read it.

Did all 102 quit for the same reason?

That's what less than 5% of their officers?  Oh no the sky really is falling!
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:41:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?
View Quote


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:42:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm trying to get worked up over this, but it's hard since there is absolutely no info on what these policies are. Could be good, could be bad. I don't know whether to root for the city or the cops.
View Quote



Basically, they obsess on race and gender, require hours of time off patrol doing statistical reporting so the politicians can say you arrested too many people of whatever demographic.  It also functionally removes intermediate force options like tasers and batons, making them virtually at the level of lethal force...thus leaving officers without tools to prevent escalation.  

Imagine if Al Sharpton wrote a policy.  That's it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:44:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:45:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.


So let me see - officers want a better employer.  you think it would be best for the officers to fight the city - and on some levels that's morally right, but on another level I say let the city and its voters have the police force the city council they voted for causes to exist by their policies and let them wallow in it.  They are all left wing loonies and deserve this shit for their left wing loony voting.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:45:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



 That's only for Private sector suckers.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:45:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.


Going to get flamed for this but - Get a different job maybe if LE is sucking ass?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:45:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.



Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:47:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I already read that, it's as meaningless now as it was when I first read it.

Did all 102 quit for the same reason?

That's what less than 5% of their officers?  Oh no the sky really is falling!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.

There was no point, just the usual whine.

Try this

I already read that, it's as meaningless now as it was when I first read it.

Did all 102 quit for the same reason?

That's what less than 5% of their officers?  Oh no the sky really is falling!


Woosh.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:47:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



 That's only for Private sector suckers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



 That's only for Private sector suckers.


Looks that way, I should have known not to mention it to those with entitlement mentalities.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:47:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They probably should have thought of that before they fucked up so bad the Feds had to get involved.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.


They probably should have thought of that before they fucked up so bad the Feds had to get involved.

DoJ wagging their dicks in local PDs face = Good job guys, keep it up!

DoJ running guns, comforting Michael Browns mom, and every other fucked up thing they've done for the last 6 years = reprehensible misconduct and federal abuse.


I'm so confused.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:47:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.



 Why do they have to stay in LE?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Whoosh.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Hear that sound?

That was the point going over your head.

There was no point, just the usual whine.

Try this

I already read that, it's as meaningless now as it was when I first read it.

Did all 102 quit for the same reason?

That's what less than 5% of their officers?  Oh no the sky really is falling!


Whoosh.

Maybe you should make a better point then.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:48:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Basically, they obsess on race and gender, require hours of time off patrol doing statistical reporting so the politicians can say you arrested too many people of whatever demographic.  It also functionally removes intermediate force options like tasers and batons, making them virtually at the level of lethal force...thus leaving officers without tools to prevent escalation.  

Imagine if Al Sharpton wrote a policy.  That's it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm trying to get worked up over this, but it's hard since there is absolutely no info on what these policies are. Could be good, could be bad. I don't know whether to root for the city or the cops.



Basically, they obsess on race and gender, require hours of time off patrol doing statistical reporting so the politicians can say you arrested too many people of whatever demographic.  It also functionally removes intermediate force options like tasers and batons, making them virtually at the level of lethal force...thus leaving officers without tools to prevent escalation.  

Imagine if Al Sharpton wrote a policy.  That's it.



This.  BTW:  the name is changing  again, Used to be "racial profiling"  Then it was "bias-based profiling" now it's going to be something else.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:48:36 PM EDT
[#40]
GD, hate bad cops. Wants the good cops to quit. Wonders why there are bad cops.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:49:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

DoJ wagging their dicks in local PDs face = Good job guys, keep it up!

DoJ running guns, comforting Michael Browns mom, and every other fucked up thing they've done for the last 6 years = reprehensible misconduct and federal abuse.


I'm so confused.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Weird, I always figured if people didn't like their employer's rules they could quit and go work somewhere else......




They can. But some battles are bigger than yourself. Quiting doesnt solve the problem for the remaining Seattle cops and the decent people of Seattle.


They probably should have thought of that before they fucked up so bad the Feds had to get involved.

DoJ wagging their dicks in local PDs face = Good job guys, keep it up!

DoJ running guns, comforting Michael Browns mom, and every other fucked up thing they've done for the last 6 years = reprehensible misconduct and federal abuse.


I'm so confused.

Exactly.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:49:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



 Why do they have to stay in LE?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.



 Why do they have to stay in LE?


They don't...but it's going to be even more problematic to change professions.  

Best option is fight to fix it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:50:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?
View Quote

I read the damn thing, and I'd still like this question answered. What has the LEO panties in a twist?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:54:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Basically, they obsess on race and gender, require hours of time off patrol doing statistical reporting so the politicians can say you arrested too many people of whatever demographic.  It also functionally removes intermediate force options like tasers and batons, making them virtually at the level of lethal force...thus leaving officers without tools to prevent escalation.  

Imagine if Al Sharpton wrote a policy.  That's it.
View Quote

If FedDC disapproves, I feel obligated to approve and support the policies. What happened? They take away their D9s too?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:55:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



 Why do they have to stay in LE?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:



And self fund a home sale, move, and school transfer plus their spouse losing their Job?


I'm pretty confident people leave jobs they don't like and find work elsewhere.  It's really not hard to grasp.



It's damn difficult in LE.  The hiring process is often measured in years.



 Why do they have to stay in LE?


There are few other professions available where you spend all day making people respect your authoritah.  How many hall monitors would want to switch to helping out in the computer lab....
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:56:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:57:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Can we just quit fucking around and start making different laws for different races?  We all know that's the goal here.  
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:59:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Does this mean they can't shoot homeless guys listening to headphones now?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:59:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I read the damn thing, and I'd still like this question answered. What has the LEO panties in a twist?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?

I read the damn thing, and I'd still like this question answered. What has the LEO panties in a twist?

When using force is unavoidable, the policy cautions officers to use only the force necessary to make the arrest, and says that their conduct before force was used may be considered by the department in determining whether force was appropriate.


Sounds awful.
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 1:00:54 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I read the damn thing, and I'd still like this question answered. What has the LEO panties in a twist?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
TL;DR... what are the policies in question?

I read the damn thing, and I'd still like this question answered. What has the LEO panties in a twist?


Stuff like if you shoot someone 5 or 6 times in a rightous shooting its not enough to explain why you shot him with a quick 5 round NSR. instead each individual round fired is is own seperate use of force incident/investigation.

Expects cops to have a photgraphic memory in violent stressfull events. In spite of decades of research that show that is an unrealistic expectation.

Why would someone make such a policy? Because they know its impossible to use any force without violating some fine print of the overly complicated policy. To create a culture that any force is bad and is something to be punished.
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