I can already sense the gnashing of teeth, so before you beat your chests in frustration, bear with me a bit...

Let's consider this from a few angles:

The daily driver-
For almost five years now, I've been driving a 2009 Civic Sedan. Not the Si, the plain model with an automatic transmission. The 1.8L engine makes 140 hp at 6,300 RPMs. If I don't have any passengers or cargo and I mash it, I can barely get it to 60mph in under 10 seconds. That's an eternity compared to what most cars on the road these days are capable of. But here's the thing- I rarely break 4k RPMs, and I can only think of one time in the last several months that I got close to the top of that power curve at 6,300. You're probably imagining a guy that rolls around going with the flow while thinking about anything but driving. That isn't me. I'm not an angry driver, but I do tend to be assertive. When a light turns green at an intersection, I'm almost always the quickest off the line (without racing), and on the highway, I'm usually one of the fastest vehicles on the road. I casually glide by everyone else, and I'm doing it while rarely putting down more than 80 hp.

The hauler-
My first love was a 1985 Ford F-150. It was a long bed with a 302 and an auto. Wiki says it made 190 hp and 285 ft-lb of torque, but by the time I got behind the wheel of her, she was almost 20 years old and well abused. It wasn't in good shape, and sometimes I was just happy to make it wherever I was going. You can load a lot of crap into an 8 foot bed, and I did. Many times. The suspension was actually in decent shape, but I still overloaded it a few times. And yet, no matter how much weight I had loaded, I rarely had to run the engine hard to pull it. On the exception of busy interchanges and uphill on ramps, I didn't need to run up the RPMs to get my load moving. The majority of the time I spent running that old V8 hard had less to do with me trying to get something done and more to do with the fact that I was a teenager hooning and old truck.

The fun car-
Driving isn't all about business. This year, I bought the first car I've ever bought strictly for the joy of driving. I chose the Mazda Miata, and I dug up a decent 1994 example on Craigslist. This summer has brought me the best weather I ever remember, and I've been out driving in it quite a bit. I've put almost 3k miles on it, and I haven't used it for a single commute. All of that is driving for the sake of driving, and I've had a lot of fun. My car made 131 hp when it was new, and it's not. It could probably also benefit from a fresh coil pack and a timing adjustment. Unlike the Civic, I've had this old Miata up in the higher RPM range quite a bit. It revs nicely, and I like the added responsiveness when going through curves at questionable speeds. I've taken this car to the limits of its traction. I've taken it to the limit of my own testicular fortitude. There hasn't been a single time when I thought it could use more power. The limit holding me back is almost always somewhere else.

I can think of one area where power is as crucial as the hype around it, and it's the drag strip and other long straights without limits on speed. It's the reason kickass cars like the new Dodge Hellcat exist, and I respect that. But I am starting to find myself baffled by the emphasis on power that runs everywhere else in the market. Why the hell are appliances like the Camry and the Altima sold with 270 hp engines? Why do internet parrots banter on about the old GM Vortec 5300s and Ford Modular 5.4s as "underpowered?" What couldn't they move that wouldn't have called for a diesel with HD suspension anyways? And why are buying $25k econoboxes that don't send any power to the rear wheels?

Outside of the drag strip, the horsepower wars have little purpose. Manufacturers are working to make their vehicles more and more powerful to get the biggest numbers for a year or two instead of focusing on the things that would make their cars better in actual use.

You will hold that view right up until the moment you drive something with that "overrated horsepower"

Dodge Minivan > Corvette?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.

Torque.




Or something...



I didn't even read.

I guess op you just don't get it...horsepower is like owning guns. Ever try to explain to someone who's not interested in gun how amazing guns are? They just go...meh, thats you right now

Because they are. The vehicles those engines ended up in were dogs unless mods happened.



 

You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.

We have a winner.

Drive a car with some balls and you'll wonder why you stayed with a Civic and Miata for so long.

You'd feel differently after driving my 1LE.

tag for the lulz


my weak 238HP flywheel dozer has never failed to be able to move anything movable


i think hp/weight is the thing you are looking for in auto applications  due to safety regs cars have gotten porky

This, go drive a hopped up turbo rally buggy of some sort, or a GTR, or a C6/C7 corvette, the list goes on and on.



I have autocrossed, rallycrossed, and track day beat on an NA, NB, and NC miata and I totally get where you are coming from. They are the most fun/$ you can find in the car world, but don't discount what it feels like to be able to apply and control 500+ hp on the ground in a competent vehicle.



 

OP HATES FUN

5.4L is garbage, but the 5.3L is the quintessential bang-for-buck engine.

This thread is gonna be more fun than driving my miata...

IBTL

Coming out Thread!!

For me, the key is balance. I have no interest in straight-line cars or overweight highway barges. I like horsepower, but not at the expense of an awesome chassis.

I may prioritize lightness and handling over horsepower, and gravitate toward smaller cars, but I'd gladly own and drive the pants off of a Nissan GT-R, C7 Corvette, Porsche 911, or similar cars.

Because power is often made via efficiency. As engines get more efficient that use less fuel to do a given task.

Its also about bragging rights for sales. I myself prefer torque over horsepower.

Drive a 1982 Mercedes-Benz 240D with a wide ratio manual transmission then get back to me about horsepower being over-rated.

Make sure that you have the lug key.



Sorry, Sub.

Meh. I love horsepower, but I value my well used 1989 4Runners offroad capability over speed (But I am planning on doing an engine swap. )

Nobody NEEEEDS that much horsepower!!

Sounds familiar.

More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.





Of course, driving a fast car fast is even better.

My wife's minivan has a sub 8sec 0-60 time...not bad

I've owned two Miatas (a 93 NA and I currently drive an 08 NC as my daily driver) and while they are fun, zippy cars that can carve a corner like a swiss bread knife their acceleration can only be thought of as "adequate".

I used to drive a fox body Mustang GT and while that thing wasn't going to win any cornering contests that guttural grunt of torque you'd get when you punched it was its own reward. My friends and I call it "leap"... the ability for a car to just "go" when you punch it. A lot of modern sedans have really upped their game in this regard, but there is no real replacement for putting the spurs into a hipo motor. That effortless power on demand is just as pleasurable and useful as being able to slalom around any twisty back road.

I wish more cars had BOTH the ability to be nimble and have brute force power.

You can hang balls on a miata or a civic,I've seen it done.

QUIT HATING FUN OP


boy that Q has a serious dangle on it.

Try that logic going up a mountain.

My daily driver makes 500/1,000. Your micro machine won't get my toy hauler and the quads to the lake. Then I roll out the 40+ HP quads, and have some trail fun.

See? You are wrong. Horsepower does equal fun. I'm glad you found peace and tranquility with your Miata though.

I stopped at FWD

lol

I've heard this argument before by other people that were also wrong.

Torque is the magic word.  That's what gets heavy loads up to speed quick, and what snaps you back into your seat off the line.  Ever seen the video of the 12 horsepower steam tractor hooked up and pulling against a souped up JD tractor belching diesel smoke?  The old steam tractor flat-out embarrasses the JD, and it's because of torque.

why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.

Horsepower to weight ratio is underrated.

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.



 

you were saying





http://vimeo.com/38980391

If you put one of these on your Honda, and paint it primer gray, it will go faster.

sounds like someone in a big pick up drove down OP's bumper today in his little econo car.

Well, to be fair, the Cobra guy is gonna be shit out of luck no matter what

All Hellcat drivers should be embarrassed for paying that much for that land yacht.



 

I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.

I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.

I prefer the extra "unnecessary" hp. I've had to drive the wife's Chevy cruze, and I feel like I am driving a kids power wheel. It gets the job done, but my daily driver (because fuck fuel economy) is a 5.7 hemi Charger R/T. I'm not always balls to the wall, but I'll be damned if it just doesn't feel better all around
 

miatas are fun because you feel like you're going crazy fast ripping through the RPMs

Yet they were still more powerful than the prior generation, which many claim to yearn for...


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile