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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:14:51 AM EDT
[#1]
If it is untimed, how can you fail?
You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:17:15 AM EDT
[#2]
He couldn't do 30 pushups?
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:17:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Have to laugh at the ruling, it was only a matter of time.
That said, most people including myself could do 30 pushups in their sleep. Untimed? Wow. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:17:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:18:28 AM EDT
[#5]
So if they raised the female requirement to match the male requirement he would have no suit right?
Wonder how his coworkers will feel about a agent that couldn't pass the same physical test they all did?? |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:22:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. If anything lighter shorter women should have to do more pushups than taller heavier men, if the real reason for pushups is to prove strength. Going to bench presses with a standard weight and number would eliminate most other variables and only test strength. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:22:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if they raised the female requirement to match the male requirement he would have no suit right? Wonder how his coworkers will feel about a agent that couldn't pass the same physical test they all did?? If enough females couldn't pass, the suit would still show up, it would just be different. Then, the FBI would have to demonstrate why that particular test standard was applicable to the job. The latter is what the military will be up against in the fields formerly barring women. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:25:26 AM EDT
[#8]
30 untimed pushups.
I dont even.... 
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:28:51 AM EDT
[#9]
All this over a guy not being able to do 30 freaking pushups...
Ever see the South Park episode, "Raising the Bar"? Sad truth that episode is. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:29:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Judge Ellis rocks. From my experience one of the best judges on the bench.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:30:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
30 untimed pushups. I dont even.... I've seen distance running athletes incapable of 30 pushups. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:32:23 AM EDT
[#12]
So, they lowered the bar for men because the standards for women are lower? Is that what I'm reading is the rationalization for this ruling?
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:33:02 AM EDT
[#13]
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:33:55 AM EDT
[#14]
OP how bout a link?
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:34:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Does that say 30? Untimed? Dude could only do 29, in an unlimited amount of time? 40 years old, and needs to push 30 times. 30.
Not sure, but I think the ARFCOM basement warrior qual. PFT for 50yr olds, requires 20 after 6 posts per min., and marathon Fapping for two hours. 30. And he's bitching about womens standards. FBI Special agent.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:35:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. Untimed, but pretty sure they have to be continuous... Not that that's an excuse, I'm in shitty shape right now and can hit 30 in a row. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:36:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've seen distance running athletes incapable of 30 pushups. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
30 untimed pushups. I dont even.... I've seen distance running athletes incapable of 30 pushups. I knew a guy like that - and Army Reservist - had a helluva time with the pushup portion of the PT test. Guy could run 5 minute miles forever, though. Crazy. But, he still managed. The trick is to work on your weakness when you work out - but most people always like to do what they excel at. Bulky guys like to lift, runners like to run, etc. I doubt our here here was doing much at all, though. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:36:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:38:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? Yeah, without being able to read more details (OP didn't even provide a link), I almost think the guy did it on purpose so he could sue. Either that or this gentleman is one heck of a weak man. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:38:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Equal rights, isn't that what women have been striving for...................14 for a woman , 14 for a man, equal or GTFO |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:39:26 AM EDT
[#21]
30 untimed, so can I stop and drink a beer at 15?
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:40:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
30 untimed pushups. I dont even.... |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:41:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. I've read else where that there was more to the story. Guy had always passed fitness test with high scores, test day comes around and they say he only did 29. Then they're was supposed to be video footage, but they don't have video of him. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:41:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:41:33 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
30 untimed, so can I stop and drink a beer at 15? Odds are you can't go to an unauthorized rest position - though I am a bit curious myself. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:42:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Odds are you can't go to an unauthorized rest position - though I am a bit curious myself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
30 untimed, so can I stop and drink a beer at 15? Odds are you can't go to an unauthorized rest position - though I am a bit curious myself. I don't think you can stop. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:44:06 AM EDT
[#27]
IIRC...it was about more than the number of push-ups.....he failed by not getting his 30 and was not given another attempt at it....a female trainee failed to get her 14 and was given another chance and passed.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:46:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC...it was about more than the number of push-ups.....he failed by not getting his 30 and was not given another attempt at it....a female trainee failed to get her 14 and was given another chance and passed. Was she hot? |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:47:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read else where that there was more to the story. Guy had always passed fitness test with high scores, test day comes around and they say he only did 29. Then they're was supposed to be video footage, but they don't have video of him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. I've read else where that there was more to the story. Guy had always passed fitness test with high scores, test day comes around and they say he only did 29. Then they're was supposed to be video footage, but they don't have video of him. Interdasting....Link? |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:49:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC...it was about more than the number of push-ups.....he failed by not getting his 30 and was not given another attempt at it....a female trainee failed to get her 14 and was given another chance and passed. That sounds plausible. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:51:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. You get that the ruling has nothing to do with whether 30 push-ups is an appropriate test right? The importance of this issue is that if the Government is going to set different standards for men they had better have a justifiable basis to do so. The government did not do so here. So stop being fixated on the one guy who allegedly couldn't eek out one more push-up. Focus on the victory this represents in the unfair playing field woman have in lax standards. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:52:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If anything lighter shorter women should have to do more pushups than taller heavier men, if the real reason for pushups is to prove strength. Going to bench presses with a standard weight and number would eliminate most other variables and only test strength. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. If anything lighter shorter women should have to do more pushups than taller heavier men, if the real reason for pushups is to prove strength. Going to bench presses with a standard weight and number would eliminate most other variables and only test strength. Yes, but that would out everyone on an even basis which would defeat affirmative action. PC police can't have that now 
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:54:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Sounds like they screwed him on the count.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:55:07 AM EDT
[#34]
lawlz!!!!!
Shit is about to get epic! I hope this carries over into ever facet of every duel standard in every corner of government employment. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:55:11 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:58:20 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You get that the ruling has nothing to do with whether 30 push-ups is an appropriate test right? The importance of this issue is that if the Government is going to set different standards for men they had better have a justifiable basis to do so. The government did not do so here. So stop being fixated on the one guy who allegedly couldn't eek out one more push-up. Focus on the victory this represents in the unfair playing field woman have in lax standards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. You get that the ruling has nothing to do with whether 30 push-ups is an appropriate test right? The importance of this issue is that if the Government is going to set different standards for men they had better have a justifiable basis to do so. The government did not do so here. So stop being fixated on the one guy who allegedly couldn't eek out one more push-up. Focus on the victory this represents in the unfair playing field woman have in lax standards. This. Either raise it for everyone or keep it the same (lowest common denominator) for both. Although it's ridiculous the lawyer is asking the judge to place her client on the FBI payroll in a special agent position, with back pay. HAHA. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:59:14 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, they lowered the bar for men because the standards for women are lower? Is that what I'm reading is the rationalization for this ruling? No. The FBI couldn't show why one officer could perform the job being able to only do 14 pushups, but another could not do the job doing 29. It's not a difficult concept. The Judge is 100% correct. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:00:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Good. Hopefully this gets to the Military as well. However, standards for women need to be raised - not lowered for men.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:00:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Too much of a sissy to work out before the academy?
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:02:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. This is the answer The physical fitness test in most law enforcement jobs are completely arbitrary. Like a 1.5 mile run. If you haven't caught the suspect in about a 1/4 of a mile you wont catch them. If 14 pushups get s the women through it should get the men through too. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:02:47 AM EDT
[#41]
I can't do 30 pushups.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:02:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You get that the ruling has nothing to do with whether 30 push-ups is an appropriate test right? The importance of this issue is that if the Government is going to set different standards for men they had better have a justifiable basis to do so. The government did not do so here. So stop being fixated on the one guy who allegedly couldn't eek out one more push-up. Focus on the victory this represents in the unfair playing field woman have in lax standards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. You get that the ruling has nothing to do with whether 30 push-ups is an appropriate test right? The importance of this issue is that if the Government is going to set different standards for men they had better have a justifiable basis to do so. The government did not do so here. So stop being fixated on the one guy who allegedly couldn't eek out one more push-up. Focus on the victory this represents in the unfair playing field woman have in lax standards. I think it was more about quantifying those standards to correlate with job expectations. U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III in Virginia wrote last week that despite obvious gender differences, the FBI had failed to prove that the fitness test was an adequate measure of job skills, such as the ability to restrain a fleeing suspect. The judge pointed to the different requirements based on gender to show that pushups are not a direct test of job skills, because they were not equal for everyone. ETA: Its also another jab at the government in step with the ATF suppressor ruling. When judges ask the government to define the standards by which they make their decisions, they often have no standards to defend themselves with. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:03:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Bingo. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:05:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it is untimed, how can you fail? You have to recover eventually, unless you just give up-- and then you should fail. I agree with the judge. If the FBI has decided that 14 pushups is enough to prove you can do the job, then 14 pushups is adequate for everybody. If it isn't adequate for everybody, it means the FBI has been putting people at risk for a while by allowing people who aren't up to the standard in. this one standard for the job, everyone must meet that standard. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:10:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC...it was about more than the number of push-ups.....he failed by not getting his 30 and was not given another attempt at it....a female trainee failed to get her 14 and was given another chance and passed. I seem to recall reading that as well. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:15:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Is the FBI's PT test not validated, that's odd.
Same job same standard should be the way these things go. And I'd say 3/4 of the adult population couldn't do 30 correct, unbroken push-ups. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:16:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't do 30 pushups. Yes you can. work on it for a week. Max out 3-4 times a day. You'll be at 30 in no time. I get new hire kids that can't lift 40lb lugs of fruit at first. By the end of the first week, they are hossing the things around, and by the end of the season I'm yelling at 'em for doubling up. There HAS to be a LOT more to this story. If a guy can get 29, he can get 30 easy. |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:18:37 AM EDT
[#48]
I failed my HS gym class final because I couldn't bend my neck enough so that the bottom of my jaw, rather than the front, would touch the teacher's fist for each push-up.
Maybe I should have sued. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:22:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck that. Guy had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it. That's what this comes down to. Not seeing the bigger issue, huh? The standards are well publicized. He had years to prepare. He should have worried about himself and not anyone else. Hell, a woman I used to work with went to Quantico a little over a year ago and was obsessed with beating all the men in the class. That's the attitude he should have had. Sounds like he did beat all the women there, so there's that. 
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:25:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Now we know what the "Special" stands for
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