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Posted: 3/26/2011 6:55:38 PM EDT
[#1]
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 6:59:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:00:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? And we're off!! |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:01:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Tell it to the judge. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:01:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Is proving that you are right worth getting shot over? |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:02:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:02:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Why is an officer pointing his gun at people safer than a gentleman holding a legal pistol in a holster...
Our system is fucked. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:02:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Watch the video...
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/best-defense-open-carry/8460/ He's lucky he didn't get shot and he's not getting paid.... |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:05:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Watch the video... http://www.downrange.tv/blog/best-defense-open-carry/8460/ He's lucky he didn't get shot and he's not getting paid.... Did you watch more than the first :15? |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:05:22 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:05:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. Actually it says no open carry in a class 1 city (meaning Philadelphia) without LTCF (aka ccl). |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:06:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities Without a LCTF. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. Fixed it. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:06:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:06:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Is proving that you are right worth getting shot over? No. I should have clarified. If an officer is giving me instructions over the sights of his pistol, I'm going to follow said instructions. If we're both still holstered I may stand there and discuss the situation. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:08:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Sue them
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:10:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. 100% in agreement with you but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:11:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted:
... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:11:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I believe that is not true, if you have a carry license I'm pretty sure it exemptsActually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. you. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:11:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Those cops sure showed him some "brotherly love".
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:12:02 PM EDT
[#20]
I watched an episode of that show and when the guy said birdshot was good for self defense I turned the channel.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:12:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: There are at least 6 cases where police detained or arrested open carriers in Pa that got paid and were not put through what this guy was, he's getting paid big on this one.Watch the video... http://www.downrange.tv/blog/best-defense-open-carry/8460/ He's lucky he didn't get shot and he's not getting paid.... |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:13:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. As stated above, if the officer has drawn his pistol I will comply without argument. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:15:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Yep the man with the star and loaded gun pointing at my center mass is always right & I would comply with his instructions to the letter. Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted: ... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:17:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Open carry as political activism is so 2009.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:20:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Pretty funny at around 5:00 when they find the guy’s recorder. I’m just glad they didn’t know how to turn it off. LOL To top it all off they were all concerned it was a “set up” which made it obviously they knew they were doing something wrong.
sucks to be caught in the act |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:21:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted:
... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. So, we get to have cops threaten people with death out of ignorance and we are supposed to just go along with it? Yea, that doesn't seem like a problem at all. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:26:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted: ... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. So, we get to have cops threaten people with death out of ignorance and we are supposed to just go along with it? Yea, that doesn't seem like a problem at all. "Only Ones" syndrome. Quite common in larger cities. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:26:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Cops should be demoted and have their pay docked which should be direct deposited into the victims account.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:29:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Cop was wrong. Philly PD is very much anti gun just like the city they represent. Individual officers may feel different but it seems that the PD policies for issuing LTCF (which go against state law) and understanding PA law is ridiculous.
Guy was too argumentative. He should have shut up, let the cop do his job (wrongly I might add), and then gotten one of the excellent gun lawyers off of PAFOA.org. I'm sure he still is getting the lawyer as I would too. Philly just wants to be different like NYC but they can't. I also love how the cop threatens that "this is how you lose your license" as well as "recording cops is illegal." They screwed up and used the usual Philly tactics to attempt to scare the guy. Again, I'm not advocating what he did but sadly this is what it has come to. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:30:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. First response. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:31:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. Did this guy have a license? |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:32:15 PM EDT
[#32]
It's just sound... wish there was video. I suppose the guy was trolling looking for an excuse to 'get paid' since he had the recorder and all.
More power to the OC guys but damn, why bring the man into your life... ever?? It's legal here in GA but it brings nothing but attention on you and that's one thing I desperately try to avoid at all times, lol. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:32:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: YesQuoted: Quoted: Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. Did this guy have a license? |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:33:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: I believe that is not true, if you have a carry license I'm pretty sure it exemptsActually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. you. Pittsburgh is not a "City of First Class." Only Philly is. There are quite a few OC'ers in PGH that are never hassled. I'm not one of them. Also note that "City of First Class" means they hand out the LTCF vs Pittsburgh where Allegheny County does. The designation comes from a population of over 1 million. ETA: Philly is known for adding rules to obtain a LTCF and denying permits for not following their "extra" requirements. This goes against PA preemption law but as far as I know no one has legally challenged them on it yet. Secondly, because of what is mentioned above, many in Philly obtain a non-resident FL carry permit which is valid in PA. Philly politicians are pushing for legislation in the state congress that would make non-resident permits invalid in the state. They are just super anti-gun and can't stand the fact that preemption exists. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:33:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. Did this guy have a license? He pretty clearly said that he did. Did you watch the video? He told the officer he had a license to carry firearms, officer said it didn't matter. The victim even went so far as to say which pocket it was in. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:34:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. Did this guy have a license? The guy said multiple times in the beginning that he indeed did. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. You can OC in Philly if you have a license to carry firearms. Did this guy have a license? He pretty clearly said that he did. Did you watch the video? He told the officer he had a license to carry firearms, officer said it didn't matter. The victim even went so far as to say which pocket it was in. No, I didn't watch the video, I just asked a question. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:36:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities with out a license to carry a firearm (usually referred to a concealed weapon permit in most other states). Please do try to get your information correct in the future. Edited to add: beat many times. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:38:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted:
... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. Citizen: Ignorance of law is not an excuse to break them. tc556guy: Ignorance of law is a valid excuse to enforce (not enforce) them. 
Are you LEO? Surely that's not how you think LEO feels and operates on a daily basis, at least none of the police that I know behave in such a manner. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:38:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. Actually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities with out a license to carry a firearm (usually referred to a concealed weapon permit in most other states). Please do try to get your information correct in the future. Please try to read all posts before you post. I have been corrected about 5 times before you imparted your wisdom. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:40:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Those cops are pricks.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:40:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Seriously? You think it's smart to argue with a cop who's pointing a gun at you because he's wrong? There's a time and a place for everything. I'd comply 100%...and would probably meet w/ the Chief the next morning. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:40:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
It's just sound... wish there was video. I suppose the guy was trolling looking for an excuse to 'get paid' since he had the recorder and all. While you make a valid point, police do "stings" all the time. Same principle in theory. If he was trolling, yet well within the law, what is the problem? He is only trolling for police that aren't doing their job correctly. It shouldn't be a problem, right? I mean, if you are an honest cop, citizens should be free to troll as they haven't done anything wrong. bad cop takes the bait good cop knows how to correctly perform his job and doesn't take the bait only bad cops feel the effect |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:41:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? I wouldn't bother with Phillys finest. It would be a lost cause from the get go. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:42:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted: ... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. Citizen: Ignorance of law is not an excuse to break them. tc556guy: Ignorance of law is a valid excuse to enforce (not enforce) them. Are you LEO? Surely that's not how you think LEO feels and operates on a daily basis, at least none of the police that I know behave in such a manner. I agree with tc555guy that it is best to comply with the officer first because he is pointing a gun at you and secondly, even though he is wrong, you are 100% right and legal. This is one of the few times where you might actually like a lawyer. That said Philly PD had to go through the same training update that all PA officers went through about two years ago that addressed the PA open carry rules. Whether any of them paid attention or not isn't clear. It appears the myth that open carry is illegal in "A City of First Class" is still ongoing or the officer was greatly confused by the training he was given (if he was even with a PA PD for it). |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:43:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Stay classy Philly PD.
On another note, I went through basic with a reservist who was a philly cop. Biggest asshole I have ever met. Fat, out of shape, doughnut eatin' mother fucker, if we had been able to peer him out he would have been gone in a week. Typical jack-booted thug. Ran into him on my last tour in Iraq, still a JBT and still a dickhead. Acted and talked just like the ones on the tape.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:44:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: It's Philly, it is what it is. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted: ... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. So, we get to have cops threaten people with death out of ignorance and we are supposed to just go along with it? Yea, that doesn't seem like a problem at all.  |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:44:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted:
... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. Citizen: Ignorance of law is not an excuse to break them. tc556guy: Ignorance of law is a valid excuse to enforce (not enforce) them.
Are you LEO? Surely that's not how you think LEO feels and operates on a daily basis, at least none of the police that I know behave in such a manner. I agree with tc555guy that it is best to comply with the officer first because he is pointing a gun at you and secondly, even though he is wrong, you are 100% right and legal. This is one of the few times where you might actually like a lawyer. That said Philly PD had to go through the same training update that all PA officers went through about two years ago that addressed the PA open carry rules. Whether any of them paid attention or not isn't clear. It appears the myth that open carry is illegal in "A City of First Class" is still ongoing or the officer was greatly confused by the training he was given (if he was even with a PA PD for it). I agree about compliance also. From the audio on the video, he follows the officers demands rather well for having a gun pointed at him even though he did nothing wrong. He might be trying to teach the officer about the actual law, but when the officer says keep your hands in the open, the victim does. On the ground? He does it. Stay kneeling? Yep, he remains that way. |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:45:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: They use to try every year to get opted out of the state preemption laws.Quoted: Quoted: I believe that is not true, if you have a carry license I'm pretty sure it exemptsActually, PA law says no open carry in class 1 cities. Those would be Philly and Pittsburgh. you. Pittsburgh is not a "City of First Class." Only Philly is. There are quite a few OC'ers in PGH that are never hassled. I'm not one of them. Also note that "City of First Class" means they hand out the LTCF vs Pittsburgh where Allegheny County does. The designation comes from a population of over 1 million. ETA: Philly is known for adding rules to obtain a LTCF and denying permits for not following their "extra" requirements. This goes against PA preemption law but as far as I know no one has legally challenged them on it yet. Secondly, because of what is mentioned above, many in Philly obtain a non-resident FL carry permit which is valid in PA. Philly politicians are pushing for legislation in the state congress that would make non-resident permits invalid in the state. They are just super anti-gun and can't stand the fact that preemption exists. They have failed thank God. That fat fuck anti gun rendell was pissed about leaving before he could get it overturned |
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Posted: 3/26/2011 7:45:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The guy was argumentative. He may have been in the right as far as being able to carry, but you don't stand there and argue with an officer who is giving you instructions. What if the officer is wrong? Then it gets settled after the fact. Until then, you comply with instructions, not stand there and argue with the officer. Quoted: ... but Philly cops know it is legal to open carry as long as you have a Carry License. Apparently they don't, because the officer says right in the audio that he can't get an answer from anyone he is checking with. Ignorance is no excuse of the law. How does that work? |
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