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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:13:38 PM EDT
I'll make a couple of comments concerning the letter. Note that one of the main points in the letter is the price of the guns in question and the fear if the price drops. Second is the attempt at linking the authorized sale of these firearms to an increase in smuggling attempts. The former is an in your face admission of bigotry and racial control. This letter is a prime example of the "Jim Crow" era.
As for the rest, read it and make your own conclusions. I would ask that this go viral and that the BATFE be flooded with calls, letters and emails demanding an explanation. Letter concerning ROK Garands, carbines and 1911's The link is to the PDF file of the letter. 
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:17:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Link requires me to log in to a site I don't really care to join.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:19:19 PM EDT
[#2]
If anyone can host it so you don't have to join up, please let me know and I'll forward it over to you. It's a PDF and photobucket doesn't like it.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:31:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:36:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:38:19 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:42:07 PM EDT
[#6]
That is why the ATF is known as A-holes Toting Firearms.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:42:33 PM EDT
[#7]
There is no letter head, no signature block, no date on the memorandum you attached.
Is it legit? If so who/how do we contact BATFE? Will it do any good? |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:45:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
There is no letter head, no signature block, no date on the memorandum you attached. Is it legit? If so who/how do we contact BATFE? Will it do any good? It appears to be legit. The person I received this from has never given me anything except 100% reliable information. Actually, don't contact BATFE, contact your elected officials and DOJ. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:48:18 PM EDT
[#9]
contacting the elected officials makes a lot more sense than a bunch of appointed bureaucrats.
anybody got the number for the Congressional switchboard to make contacting our Congress critters easier? |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:48:41 PM EDT
[#10]
I shouldn't be surprised, but wow.
These are going to the shredder  |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:51:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP?
Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 7:56:34 PM EDT
[#12]
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:05:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. You mean like the ATF? |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:08:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? You are correct. However, Korea should be able to sell them to private dealers if they want to.... |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:09:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? i think CMP can only get weapons loaned to countries. Korea purchased these ones. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:09:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Fuck big government...
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:12:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Holy crap. "8 hours" of machining time now passes the test for "readily convertible"? You could build a halfway decent can in 8 hours (with fewer than 7 parts) or a halfass machine gun from scratch in that time. FUBATFE
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:15:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Danish and Greek M1s were loaned to those countries and returned through the CMP because they were still US property. The Korean M1s were given to Korea and are not US property. The CMP can not and will not have any involvement in their importation.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:18:20 PM EDT
[#19]
A shit ton of "machinegun" chatter in there with ZERO statistics on how many have actually been used in crimes..
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:22:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? i think CMP can only get weapons loaned to countries. Korea purchased these ones. That is what I heard from Orest at the CMP. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:23:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Whole lot of WTF there.
I like the paragraphs containing the points that it can be converted to an automatic rifle with 7 parts  . How many parts would it take to convert an ar-15, 5 or 6? It's a fucking wonder they allow any guns at all.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:25:58 PM EDT
[#22]
There were M1911A1s that were going to be returned to their homeland?
If that letter is in fact from BATFE then they're using the exact same rhetoric as the Bradys and VPC. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:27:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Holy crap. "8 hours" of machining time now passes the test for "readily convertible"? You could build a halfway decent can in 8 hours (with fewer than 7 parts) or a halfass machine gun from scratch in that time. FUBATFE I couldn't count how many crack heads and gang bangers I've seen who keep a fully functional machine shop in their garage and have the skills to fabricate these kinds of parts! |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:27:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? Because these guns were BOUGHT, not borrowed under the Lend-Lease Act. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:28:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:29:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Danish and Greek M1s were loaned to those countries and returned through the CMP because they were still US property. The Korean M1s were given to Korea and are not US property. The CMP can not and will not have any involvement in their importation. Well, this explains the matter rather succinctly. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:29:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Holy crap. "8 hours" of machining time now passes the test for "readily convertible"? You could build a halfway decent can in 8 hours (with fewer than 7 parts) or a halfass machine gun from scratch in that time. FUBATFE That part was just fluff. No other result could be expected from those jackscrews. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:37:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Cheap, plentiful, effective weapons. Can't let the peasants have that.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:38:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but other than the CMP, how many sources are there for M1s? |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 8:47:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Holy crap. "8 hours" of machining time now passes the test for "readily convertible"? You could build a halfway decent can in 8 hours (with fewer than 7 parts) or a halfass machine gun from scratch in that time. FUBATFE An experienced person could convert most semi auto firearms to full auto in 8 hours or less. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Hold the Carbines and 1911s fo now...apply to import the Garands.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:07:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? Denmark, and Greece were loaned the weapons as military aid, the South Koreans bought them (or were given them). Denmark, and Greece simply returned what was loaned to them (The weapons were owned by the US Government), South Korea owns the weapons so there's nothing loaned to return. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:11:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Whole lot of WTF there. I like the paragraphs containing the points that it can be converted to an automatic rifle with 7 parts . How many parts would it take to convert an ar-15, 5 or 6? It's a fucking wonder they allow any guns at all.4 Not counting the pins, and springs, and assuming you already have an M-16 bolt carrier. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Whole lot of WTF there. I like the paragraphs containing the points that it can be converted to an automatic rifle with 7 parts . How many parts would it take to convert an ar-15, 5 or 6? It's a fucking wonder they allow any guns at all.It takes 1 part to convert an AR-15 to full auto - a Lightning Link. If that doesn't meet the definition of "readily convertible" then I don't know what does. They won't come for them, obviously, because that would be adding a feed sack to the camel's back, instead of a straw. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:13:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. No ones buying? That's news to me, the last I checked guns were the only sector of the economy that wasn't in the shitter, and was actually doing better than before. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:16:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
There is no letter head, no signature block, no date on the memorandum you attached. Is it legit? If so who/how do we contact BATFE? Will it do any good? +1 seems fishy. Anything written by the ATF (or any gov't agency really) at least has a date on it. Whoever the source is did a disservice by leaving any pages with that info off. I doubt it's a fake though, that's a lot of random facts and info to drop in there. Just seems odd that it's missing any kind of specific information as to who the intended recipient is, who wrote it, and when it was written. In my opinion the document is pretty sloppy, but I'm probably just picky. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:21:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. No ones buying? That's news to me, the last I checked guns were the only sector of the economy that wasn't in the shitter, and was actually doing better than before. Some kinds of guns are selling. Milsurps Garands, carbines, and GI 1911 sales will absolutely be hurt by importing a quantity this large. Everyone who handles them from the distributors on down to local gun shops will end up taking a bath on non-korean guns. The consumer might win. IMO, Cheap Garands and carbines aren't anything to get excited over. In 20 years 80% of the people who these guns are important to will be dead and their families will be selling off their 100 year old rifles for scrap.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:24:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but other than the CMP, how many sources are there for M1s? You can buy a brand new, new manufacture Garand from (I think) springfield. You can buy recievers and build your own as well. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:39:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but other than the CMP, how many sources are there for M1s? You can buy a brand new, new manufacture Garand from (I think) springfield. You can buy recievers and build your own as well. More specifically, carbines. I've been interested in one for a while, but it seems there aren't many choices as to where to pick up one at. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:43:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? lend lease vs owning outright |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:46:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Typical bureaucratic crap from our leaders in charge
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:47:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: the new garands and the new receivers are JUNKQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but other than the CMP, how many sources are there for M1s? You can buy a brand new, new manufacture Garand from (I think) springfield. You can buy recievers and build your own as well. More specifically, carbines. I've been interested in one for a while, but it seems there aren't many choices as to where to pick up one at. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 9:49:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: ... More specifically, carbines. I've been interested in one for a while, but it seems there aren't many choices as to where to pick up one at. Kahr / Auto Ordnance makes new ones, never seen one though. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 10:12:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: ... More specifically, carbines. I've been interested in one for a while, but it seems there aren't many choices as to where to pick up one at. Kahr / Auto Ordnance makes new ones, never seen one though. Cool, thanks. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 10:29:15 PM EDT
[#45]
It's differnet now because the tranzis are fully in power and can give free rein to their inner disarmament yen. That letter is full of BS. The closing 'point' about the correlation between 'crime' guns and milsurp carbines - well no kidding, ATF creep, imagine that. There's a correlation between m-1 Carbines and milsurp. It's an empty point, signifying nothing, yet they shake their rattle and go 'boo!' with it.
We have GOT to get that agency utterly gutted, somehow. They've accreted every authoritarian GS- shitbird in the system. They've got to go, completely our of government service. We sit here and take their garbage rulings, changes of mind, specious rationales and decisions that airsoft rifles are machineguns, that STRING is a machinegun, watch them stage bullshit raid after bullshit raid, and flog ourselves about 'hearings', while NOTHING changes at the ATF - except it gets WORSE. And the number of FFLs is now what, down to 20% of its peak?. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 10:33:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
the new garands and the new receivers are JUNK This is a piece of BS lore that needs a stake thru its heart. The very first batches were cast, adn some had a problem. Now they don't. Haven't for years. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 10:38:37 PM EDT
[#47]
That memo doesn't look right, like at all. It's structure doesn't say ATF/.gov memo. Not that it doesn't sound like some of the arguements the ATF would make against importation. Did your "friend" cut out the cover page, and play with the structure a bit, ect. ? I'm just wondering, because it looks like a freshman position paper, not an interageny memo.
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Posted: 10/10/2010 10:45:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Why didn't the Korean government transfer them back to the U.S. government so they could be given to the CMP? Is part of the problem here that the Koreans are SELLING them to private dealers in the U.S. so they can be resold by importers, as opposed to the CMP. When Denmark and Greece returned their Garands, they all went to the CMP. Why is this different? Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the weapons in question were provided through a different program then those that went to Europe. I think the ROK .gov paid a nominal fee for the guns rather than recieving them through the MAP(which would carry the condition of return at some future date). I try to stay up on history, but this is long before my time. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 11:51:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My spider sense is tingling. That seems like it was written by the Brady Bunch or someone of that ilk. ATF is protecting the CMP and American Firearms industry at a time when nobody is buying. I'm betting that the ammo will come thru just fine though. I am a bit ignorant on the subject, but other than the CMP, how many sources are there for M1s? You can buy a brand new, new manufacture Garand from (I think) springfield. You can buy recievers and build your own as well. More specifically, carbines. I've been interested in one for a while, but it seems there aren't many choices as to where to pick up one at. I don't know of any carbines that you would be better off owning over a used USGI... The Kahr/Thompson ones are supposed to be pretty bad. |
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Posted: 10/10/2010 11:59:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whole lot of WTF there. I like the paragraphs containing the points that it can be converted to an automatic rifle with 7 parts . How many parts would it take to convert an ar-15, 5 or 6? It's a fucking wonder they allow any guns at all.It takes 1 part to convert an AR-15 to full auto - a Lightning Link. If that doesn't meet the definition of "readily convertible" then I don't know what does. They won't come for them, obviously, because that would be adding a feed sack to the camel's back, instead of a straw. Technically a lightning link is 2 parts, and anyone with a drill and a file could make one in under 8 hours. ETA: The way an AR bolt operates, I bet you could make a full auto only (shoots till it's empty) AR using the bolt catch as a trigger with basically no extra parts. |
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