On the Firing Line

Hope it's not a dupe.

"rhetorician in chief"  
No kidding, thanks for the link OP.  I'm going to have to get to one of those.

Watch the video too.

What a fucking hit piece.  They act like training someone to shoot out to 500 yards makes them some sort of superman killer who should be watched round the clock, then a few sentences later totally discount the ability of the very same people to affect change on the government through armed force.

I fucking hate liberals.  Wonder what they would say if we attacked their beloved 1st amendment with as much vigor as they attack the 2nd?

All the Appleseed staff handled that extremely well.  The Times reporter was desperate to paint them as a terror organization, and 2/3rds of the article focused on the looniest participants he could find and drawing some tenuous connection from Appleseed to them to violent groups.  No surprise.

BTW, whatever happened to the Hutaree guys?  Last I checked it was starting to sound like the guy the reporter painted as a paranoid crazy was right, that they had been framed/entrapped.

What do you mean 'their'?

Have they interviewed the new Black Panther Party or the View, for that matter.?   There's some evil on that show.

Fuck the NYT.

Fascinating article.

Wow, I was expecting a biased article but that was ridiculous.

The other side is scared as shit, they cant understand or digest the fact that a certain percentage of the population, will not bend over when told to do so.



This takes control from them and that scares the ever loving crap out of em all.



Aim small, miss small folks.

Those NYT libs just quake at the thought that someone, somewhere, owns a gun.

A bunch of limp-wristed nancy boy homos.

Interesting article. I'll let someone else explain the arfcom link to it.

It the Left doesn't want a Civil War, then they should be more civil.  

The beauty of mainstream articles (even attempted hit pieces like this) is that they show the world how capable and determined the "gun culture" is. This really does scare the poo out of the lefties and might do just what "Fred" wants: win the soft war so there is never a hard war.



Appleseed is a great way to win more over to our side.

If that was a hit piece, then you people seriously need to get out of your basements and wipe off the camo makeup.

An article like that is precisely the sort of positive press that Appleseed needs and requires if it's to grow beyond the eager-and-willing recruits it's already been reaching.

I'd swear that 9/10th of the posters in this thread quite simply never even read past the first page.  A NYT article that describes a Liberty Training Rifle and accurately describes the activities at an Appleseed..and then gives paragraph after paragraph to quoting Fred.  What the fuck more do you want?

My only complaint is that the NYT didn't mock the LTRs as a piss-poor method of teaching distance shooting.

I actually thought the article was not nearly as bad as I expected, considering the source.  In fact, that article portrayed the Appleseed Project in a way that made my opinion of it MORE favorable than it was before I read it.  Some Arfcommers are calling it a hit piece, but I think it was more of a puff piece masquerading as a hit piece in order to get published in the NYT.

Fred and his crew sounded entirely reasonable.  That article is the best publicity Appleseed has ever received.

......

tagged

Wes, It was the kind of coverage we need because it is not from a gun person but a liberal reporter. It just would be nice to eliminate the reporters bias and attempt to paint it badly.



When the article has phrases like "unfolded behind the motley carnival of the tea party movement" then it is a hit piece although more of a miss than a hit as far as succeeding in painting us badly. In spite of focusing a lot of the article on the "draw down on a deputy" militia dude it helped our cause more than hurt it but I don't think that was the reporters intention.



If anyone hasn't watched it the video on the final page of the article is nice.

That thought had not occured to me but would be even better is that is true.



 

Some of those points are raised because, well, any vaguely unbiased party is inevitably going to ask them.  An average individual who doesn't own guns and doesn't shoot, who reads a 6-page-long article on training civliians to kill at 500 yards..is eventually going to start asking the obvious and necessarily political questions of "Who are they, what are they doing, and are they a threat to my way of life?"  When a reporter asks those questions on the part of their reader, it isn't an attack, it's an honest query as part of doing their job.  Too many people think that the mere questioning of entrenched ideology is the same thing as all-out warfare against their beliefs.  In an ideal world, the reporter's job is to avoid showing any favoritism to either side...and if the 400-pound gorilla in the room isn't being addressed, then something's wrong.

And to be blunt, there's certainly more than a slight overlap between Appleseeders and Tea Parties.  Any reader of that newspaper is going to see the link, and wonder....that article barely addresses the subject, says "They don't talk politics", and then skims right along to the next part.  Which is about all that can, should, or must be said about it.

If you go back and watch the accompanying video, you'll be amazed by how favorable the video clip is towards Appleseed.  It seems obvious that the reporter left Appleseed with a positive opinion.

"James Faire" is the banned poster STRATIOTES, and actually a friend of mine.  He's a diehard patriot, but he's not the wackjob they made him out to be

I definitely agree that by the end the reporter was impressed. Maybe I'm just a liitle thin skinned and looking for insult in these kind of articles. Good points.



 

I'd be happier with it if they had prevented that photo of a rifle laying on The Colors.

Appleseed put up a nice message for NYT readers.

He might be a cool dude in real life, but he used to post shit here and on AssaultWeb (when it was popular) that pegged the crazy meter way into the red.   Now that you identify him, he sounds pretty consistent with what he used to post.

I know what you mean.  Before I ever met him, I would het into some pretty deep Internet arguments with him, but after meeting him and shooting at his "MTC", I found that he's really a pretty likeable guy. He's just very very distrustful of the .gov.

One thing I admire about him is he has some fucking big brass ones.  The snohomish county went after him pretty hard and he didn't flinch.

Makes you wonder how many NYT guys are here on ARFCOM...

I want me one of them Kimber 1911 .460 pistols with a hair trigger.

fify

 

What did he get banned for? I remember he would post some off-the-wall stuff and his militia threads were entertaining to watch. I used to lurk in the WAHTF when I was stationed there.



 

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/

+

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/rowland.htm

Your local gunsmith should be able to handle the trigger work.

Pretty sure it was a cop bashing thread and 82NDABN smoked him, but I neve actually saw the thread.  I started gravitating away from the WAHTF because of the drama like that.  

Strat is a nice guy, but definitley the furthest "out there" guy I've ever met.  He's a guy who says a lot of the stuff you're thinking, but don't have the nerve to say since you don't want to risk getting your door kicked in.  The first time I shot at his place, he had airplanes flying circles over his property.  I'm not a tinfoiler, but it was completely obvious that they were observing us.

It wasn't a cop bashing thread, persay, it was the Seattle PD response to a college stundent firing blanks out of a Mauser at night, in town. When they responded, the news reported he came to the door, rifle in hand, intoxicated. He wouldn't drop the rifle when ordered to, then shouldered it. DRT. After 3 or four pages of discussion, Strat commented that the cops are criminals, and stated that they should all be shot on sight, or words to that effect.



Strat does come across as a nice guy, with a fairly magnetic personality, however, there's a helluva line that's crossed when someone oscillates as heavily as he does, and it was it more extremist views that got him bounced.



His Constitutionalist views are thought provoking, and a good many of the arguments he presented had a good deal of merit, however....

You might recall that there was quite a bit of time spent discussing and arguing over the merits and validity of the "Unorg Militia", that cop killing comment wasn't the first time his views came thru unvarnished and clear as a bell. The one I won't forget, it when he had stated that all OIF vets are war criminals, and should be tried as as such.



So as far as the fact he's painted as a loony Skillets? Shit man....Look at the company he keeps...remember hoot223? Last I knew, he was busted by the ATF over some "airsoft" silencers that weren't. The most recent is, Gray ...another member of the "Marijuana, Moonshine, Machinegun Militia". It's not hard to paint him when there's a damning amount of evidence.



Bottom line...there's a helluva a difference in being prepared, and organized, then focusing and depending on TEOTWAWKI.

I didn't realize anyone still read the New York Times....Huh?

Same here.  I don't want to register to boost their numbers to read it.  Hopefully more excerpts will be posted (with credit, of course, to comply with Fair Use)



 

It's just amazing that this 'report' was as positive as it was...and in the NY TIMES!!!!!

The letter to the editor from Appleseed:


Dear Sirs:

It is with some sadness and disappointment that we at the Appleseed Project read the New York Times article this evening.  When the NYT originally asked us to host their media team in order to better understand what we do, we welcomed them.  When they wanted access to our students, programs, and instructors, we acquiesced without hesitation.

We did so because we have nothing to hide and no secrets in our program.  There is no reason whatsoever to restrict or fear an open and honest press.

We spoke with happiness and excitement about the stellar growth of our program over the last four years and our mission to bring every American to a greater sense of responsibility for our nation and to live out that feeling through civic involvement.

Frankly, we opened ourselves up and said our piece in trust that it would be conveyed by the press to its readers.

Sadly, today's article is not about us.  It is not about the Appleseed Project.   It is about militias and about anecdotal gun owners who are not members of our program.  The constant focus on the militia movement, the Tea Party, and Mr. Faire are at the center of this article and as a result this article is not about us, since those things are not, and never have been the Appleseed Project.

Frankly, there are among us those who feel that we have been poorly described and treated in this article, and I will return to that point in a moment.

The real tragedy here, however, is a complete failure of the press to see the real story: Why does Appleseed double every year?  Why are people of all races, genders and ideological affiliations drawn to the Appleseed Project?  What is going on here?

In its rush to cover the desired story, that is, scary militia groups, the NYT simply misses what is really important.  Therein lies its disservice to both its readers and our program.

Now, with respect to specific themes in the article that we feel incorrectly describe the Appleseed Project, let us simply address each in turn:

Inaccuracy #1: Appleseed is Militia

Appleseed is not a militia or interested in militia training.  Appleseed teaches only in individual marksmanship skills and the history of April 19th, 1775.  Appleseed does not provide training in military tactics or unit operations.  Rather, Appleseed uses marksmanship as a way for modern Americans to reconnect with the Founders through a shared, traditional American skill.  No more.  No less.  Appleseed does not see our government as an enemy or force of arms as a solution.  Rather, our enemies are laziness, ignorance and apathy.  Appleseed sees education and lived history as the means to get people to the real solution: Personal involvement in civic processes to ensure a better future for our nation.  Our ancestors fought so that we would not have to; all we have to do is get off our couches and get involved.  

Where militias offer a dark haven for people with concerns about an unwelcome future, Appleseed offers reason for hope and sees bright, happy days ahead.  That is the real reason we are not a militia nor associated with any such like-thinking group.

Inaccuracy #2: Appleseed is White (and thus Racist in some fashion by extension)

Appleseed is filled with students and instructors of all races, creeds, genders, and identities.  We make no distinction for color, religion, sexual preference, political beliefs or any other discriminatory category. Our program is comprised at all levels of all Americans, and we explicitly urge all Americans to come. We have no patience for those who would take this great nation and divide it up by race, or who would single out someone else for ridicule or derision.  There is no place in our cadre, among our students, or at our events for those who would put petty distinctions above unity and our joint past and future.

Inaccuracy #3: Appleseed is Anti-Government, Anti-Military, Anti-Law Enforcement

Appleseed is not anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement.  Among our volunteers are people who work in law enforcement, the military, the government and nearly every civilian trade. We teach students who work in law enforcement, the military, the government, and any civilian occupation precisely because we are all Americans and inheritors of the same heritage and history.   And together we must make our joint future.

Appleseed has zero tolerance for anti-government, anti-military, or anti-law enforcement attitudes, comments or advocates.  To the contrary, we offer free spots on our shooting lines for active duty military personnel and have been called onto military bases to teach troops deploying for overseas duty in combat theaters. Elected officials at any level of government are invited to participate in Appleseed without charge.  Finally, it is our goal to get each and every participant involved in the body politic, which means we are always clear that we hold our government, the government given us by the Founders, in the highest regard.

Soldiers, police officers, and government officials are not our enemies.  They are our neighbors, friends, and protectors.  At Appleseeds they are our honored guests.

Inaccuracy #4: Appleseed is Right Wing

Appleseed is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization with no interest in partisan politics.  Appleseed volunteers and students come from all political parties, economic classes, and ideologies.  We have no place for left wing, right wing, or any "wings" at all.  Our program could not function that way, nor do we want it to.

Our only interest in politics is with the political details that led to and followed from the events of April 19th, 1775. From our retelling of those events we find that students are often motivated to move into civic involvement themselves.  We do not frame the prospective involvement of our students and look forward to the day when we see two Appleseed graduates from opposite sides of the political spectrum running against each other in a national election.

Our goal is civic involvement across the ideological spectrum.  

Inaccuracy #5:  Appleseed has a Secret Plan

We wish we had a Secret Plan to get more people involved but we don't.  There is no inner group, no special level, no wizard behind the curtain.  There is only this: Our ancestors were left with two paths: submission or bloodshed.  They chose the latter so that we could be left with a third path: citizenship and civic participation.  To take this third path we must get off the couch, turn off the TV, and get involved in our communities.  Those who would blather about a "choice" between submission and bloodshed in modern American do not understand what American was meant to be, or is.  

Civic participation is not our secret plan.  It is our openly stated mission.

In conclusion, it is my hope that the NYT and its readers continue their search for authentic information about the Appleseed Project so that they learn for themselves exactly what the Appleseed Project is, and what it seeks to create: a more active body politic.  The current article is simply woefully lacking in that regard.

If anyone has any interest in continuing this conversation or attending an event, please be sure to contact us through our website http://www.appleseedinfo.org or via our email [email protected] and we will be happy to meet you.

We are open to all inquiries and harbor no ill-will toward the NYT or the author.    We are certain that what lies behind this unfortunate description of our program is a deep-seated concern about firearms, marksmanship training and heritage programs.  It is our stated mission to change that through the hard work of education and apparently we are right where we need to be.

Thank you for your time, and thanks to  your readership as well,


The Appleseed Project
National Branch

Did the guy in the video with the black nike tank-top and boonie hat really say that the US has never been invaded ????  

I hope he isn't teaching the history part.

Regardless of how positive it may sound, there is a hidden message in this article that is anything but.

On the surface, it goes to praise the Appleseed Project and those in charge of it.

Beneath that, however. Between the lines. They would have people believe those like minded and participating are nothing but pretenders, wannabes, and daydreamers, not only dangerous because they're armed, but because now they're trained.

Disgusting.

Why are liberals so afraid of the second amendment? what is really going on here?

The heart of the matter is some liberals think themselves capable of extreme violence and "don't even trust myself" with guns.  Then they think that everyone else is just as unstable and think it terrifying that unstable people like themselves have access to firearms.  

Nice...  

"...their uniformly white skin,..."

Thanks for posting the links.  I learned something today.

This is the part I was referring to earlier (I was posted from work on my phone at the time.)

What do you guys have to say about this? Does it make you reflect and ask yourself why you invest in weapons of the like and the related gear and training?

Anybody?