USA Today
June 15, 2010
Pg. 1

Army Ditches Velcro For Buttons

By Tom Vanden Brook, USA Today

WASHINGTON — The Army is ripping space-age Velcro from its uniforms and replacing it with the humble button, which turns out to be tailor-made for the rigors of Afghanistan.

Hook-and-pile tape — the generic term for Velcro— strains to keep jam-packed cargo pants pockets closed. And when the Talibanattacks, the last thing soldiers need to worry about is spilling their gear.

Soldiers told superiors that Velcro didn't suit their needs, and the Army began testing alternatives last year, said Debi Dawson, an Army spokeswoman. In August, the Army will begin issuing new pants to soldiers heading to Afghanistan."When concerns surfaced in surveys that the hook-and-pile tape was not holding under the weight of full pocket loads, the Army evaluated several solutions," Dawson said. Velcro has been part of the latest Army combat uniform since it was introduced in 2004.

Dirt and rocks also clog the pile portion of the fastener. That requires soldiers to clean it regularly. An Army website offersthis helpful hint: a soldier's small weapons cleaning brush has been "working very well" in removing dirt and sand.

"This is the latest proof that dust and debris are the biggest enemy for the U.S. military," said Loren Thompson, a military analyst at the Lexington Institute and a consultant to defense contractors. "Taliban attacks come and go, but dust is constant in Afghanistan. Dust will impede the function of anything."

Sgt. Kenny Hatten cut to the heart of the matter in this posting on an Army website, urging the military to go back to the future:

"Get rid of the pocket flap Velcro and give us back our buttons," Hatten wrote. "Buttons are silent, easy to replace in the field, work just fine in the mud, do not clog up with dirt and do not fray and disintegrate with repeated laundering."

Somebody, apparently, was listening.

Snaps and buttons were identified as possible fixes for failing Velcro. The Army surveyed 2,700 soldiers who tested prototypes, and 60% said they preferred buttons and 29% liked snaps. Just 11% wanted to keep Velcro, according to the Army. In the end, the Army decided to substitute three buttons for Velcro on the cargo pockets of its pants.

It's cheaper, too. The Army will save 96 cents per uniform when it swaps buttons for Velcro, Dawson said.

The new-and-improved uniforms will still have plenty of Velcro, the sticky fabric popularized during spaceflights. (Astronauts used it to keep pens and other items from floating in the weightless environment.) Velcro remains on the cuffs of sleeves. It's also used for nameplates and patches.

Hatten's ideal uniform might save the Army a few more pennies.

"I don't mind the insignia Velcro on the sleeve pockets, but why would I need Velcro for my name tape and U.S. Army tapes?" he asked. "Am I going to change my name and join a different army? Why not let us sew these items on the uniform, along with the patrol cap? That's cheaper, more durable and reduces the possibility of having your uniform items stolen or tampered with."

The Army, Dawson said, hears soldiers like Hatten. It's aware of continuing complaints about Velcro and will take them into account when redesigning uniforms in the future.

Why can't common sense be more common?

Do we even want to know what this little failed experiment cost?

Well duh. There was a reason we had buttons in the first place. Simpler, cheaper, and can be fixed in the field. Saddens me that they are only replacing velcro on the pants. They need to ditch that shit across the board. They had it right the first time. Dumbest thing ever going to velcro with velcro patches.

Velcro was a stupid idea if you ask me.



 

Have they tried putting zippers on every pocket yet?  
What about bra-style hook and eye fasteners?
Magnets?

If it aint broke dont fix it....  they should have stuck with buttons and never went to velcro in the first place

No shit? They had to relearn that velco fucking doesn't work when sand and dirt get into it?

You got that right!!!!   Sew everything on except the unit patches since those are likely to change more often, I don't see one changing their name or from Army to Navy often.  Some dipshits who never went to the field or wore "kneepads" for good OER's/NCOer's thought of this.  The reason for sew-ons was simple, it was the epitome of the "KISS" principle and backed by decades of real world experience.

This whole ACU thing is a big cluster fuck, I wore BDU's for as long as possible because they work.

Some say the BDU pattern is outdated, but i have yet to see the acu blend with anything but a gravel pit.

Oh and I hated the velcro!

There were reasons the Army never used Velcro for uniforms since its developement. I guess something in the mid 2000's magically changed those facts . Good call switching back.
I do like the unit patch Velcro idea though.

Yes, even though RKIs all said that velcro was a bad idea when they did it.

It's the government/military.  There's no spec for common sense, or any sense really.  There's also no penalty for making screwed up decisions like this.

Well, in Vietnam they had to relearn that you chrome-line chambers in tropical environments.  






 

Don't give them any ideas

I used to wonder how in the hell they were supposed to sneak up on the enemy and kill them with all that velcro on their uniform.

First, they'd have to figure out how they work.



 

Next up: Why are we wearing a useless piece of wool on our heads?

..the sound of unfastening velcro flies scares off the sheep?

In honor of Monica Lewinsky, who "took one for the team"....

At least the AF got one thing right when it comes to the ABU.  




I think the desire for velcro on the ACU came from big Army trying to be "cool guys" like the SF guys who have been modifying DCUs/BDUs for a long time with the bottom blouse pockets sewn to the upper arm and velcro added.  Of course they have a lot more reason to sanitize their uniforms than the average supply troop does, too.  

Buttons use to suck on BDUs if you spent a lot of  time entering/exiting camo netted sites-hopefully this time they'll be under flaps.

The A2CU has zippered pockets.

velcro on ANY military wear was a stupid idea....especially on tactical gear....

Before the ACU, every tacticool wannabe on arfcom or elsewhere was buying third party ammo pouches, packs, plate carriers, etc. with velcro out the wazzoo.  Many even advocated the velcro-heavy flight suit as an ideal field uniform.  Velcro was so ubiquitous, that an entire industry of "morale patches" sprung up to add pieces of flair to gear.

Suddenly, when the ACUs had velcro, every tacticool wannabee was suddenly worried about the noise made by velcro.

Except for the ones on the cuffs (and the ones on the sides before they got rid of them) every button was under a flap.  



 

"What is old, again is new"

Some overpaid idiots simply have to learn the hard way, at our expense.

Well, either way, I had the buttons fail on jam packed cargo pockets as well.   But I agree, buttons are better for the cargo pockets, but velcro is nice in other areas.

I heard that those got discontinued...?  I actually liked mine but I think it was just because they were too big..they felt nice and baggy...they let some air flow to the nuts.  Very nice.

I didn't mind the ACU velcro on the top until I had to use the shit hard...I remember even saying "it's not like you're going to be reaching into your pockets in the middle of an ambush"...yeah.  I was an idiot.



I would cringe many times out there on ambush as I had to get a notepad out to write an important grid or something like that.  Also, it turns out that food is important when you're out on a 24 hour ambush.  There's only one hope of getting to a place unseen and that is at night, so if the enemy isn't going to be there until the afternoon you're fucked.  There is TONS of stuff to write down in combat it turns out, I was the RTO for half the deployment and Freqs, friendly positions, our position (incase base loses it and you get hit an need it FAST, enemy grids from direction-finding antennas, etc.  Lots of stuff is important to get out of your pockets.  Velcro sucks.

Not to mention it makes NOISE when being opened?

Buttons wouldn't be very comfortable under body armor and plates.

combat shirt.

No shit. Wish they'd go back to the patrol cap.

Winner, but besides that the complaints aren't about the velcro over the front zipper, its the pockets.



ETA:  Our platoon was issued 1 combat shirt each for the deployment.  No laundry so it was wear 120 times and burn.  Supposedly our FSC had 6 shirts each etc. but I wasn't ever able to confirm that rumor.  Such is life on a COP.

I'm with you on that.  Nothing like wearing a beret in a formation in 100+ degrees and having to wring the sweat out of it at the end if you don't pass out first.



When I was in Korea we went to the field a shit ton and the battalion commander said that if we were prepping for a field problem or recovering/reset and in the field we wore patrol caps.  This meant about 90% of the time.  He did what he could to slow the gheyness.

We were issued 4 combat shirts through RFI. Mine stayed rolled-up on the bottom of the duffel the entire trip. Why? Because the higher-ups decreed that we were not allowed to wear them. Granted, we did not "suit up" much, if at all. The only notable exception was when we had to wear the vest + helmet for about two weeks every time we stepped outside...but even then if we wanted to wear the  combat shirt, we had to carry a normal ACU top and t-shirt to change into when we got to work. The only exception to that rule was when we were laying runway matting with the Red Horse guys. After two weeks of people getting sunburns, they made the combat shirt mandatory for those that were on the detail.

Nope. They still issue them to flight crews and our Armament guys got issued them as well. Lucky bastards.

What I think is funny about the whole situation is that I have 5 or 6 sets of FRACUs that I cannot wear anymore because a) not permitted in garrison, and b) new multicam for downrange.

Not to mention the 10 or so sets of ACUs that I have been issued over the course of two deployments. At one point I took all my ACUs that were still fairly new-looking to have new velcro sewn on for the pockets as they were all worn out.

Isn't that a whole separate thread?

My worst beret moment was the morning after the 4 hour change of command practice. 0500 at the arms room and I discover that not only is my beret still damp from the day before, but the fraking headband had shrunk! So, no shit, there I was, frantically trying to stretch the headband back out when the WOOL rips into a big triangular hole right in the back. I tried to tuck and fold the beret into something approaching correct form (at least it fit again, lol), but I was unsuccessful. Top was more upset about my attitude...read as "lack of panic" over the whole situation...but it was such a "PVT Murphy" moment that all I could do was laugh.

I now carry a spare beret in the car for just such an emergency...along with extra patches and badges for the uniform.

Buttons.
My dad had to help me sew my patches on my BDUs. I asked him where he learned to sew. He said it was almost required when he joined the Army. Every unit change or promotion brought out the sewing kit. Also, as mentioned. He said you need to know how to sew to fix your "fatigues" out in the field!!

OH, and the baseball cap type patrol cap is all American. American soldiers should wear patrol cap.

Everything old is new again.

Gruns love the fucking aviation ACUs.....

which have zipper pockets.

I admit it.  I LOLed.








 

Thank god.

The only thing that pissed me off more than having to switch to ugly fucking ACUs is when the entire Army was given Ranger berets. I remember the first time I saw pictures of them I was thinking "Silly Army, always coming up with zany ideas that they never follow through with." A couple months later I see guys walking around on post with them on. The whole uniform looks like shit and I felt like a clown wearing it. I miss combat boots polished to a mirror-like shine and well fitted BDUs. Makes you actually look like you're in the military.

What's REALLY funny is how the Air Force has insisted on following the Army's lead when it comes to fucking up utility uniforms.  

Anyway... Velcro...  



[whisper]You sneak around behind them. (SCREEECH) [/whisper] (What was that? It came from over there. Shoot them.) Oh great you just had to open your pocket...



Buttons are better.