Pilots grounded for good after low flyover

By Mark D. Faram - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Mar 19, 2010 11:48:53 EDT



View the flyover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBM8kGao_ao&feature=PlayList&p=8F731240931CEF72&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=38
 
NORFOLK, Va. — Two F/A-18E Super Hornet pilots from Strike Fighter Squadron 136 have been permanently grounded for flying too low before a Georgia Tech football game Nov. 7, according to a source.

The pilots, both mid-’90s graduates of Georgia Tech, flew over Bobby Dodd Stadium in downtown Atlanta at just a few hundred feet above the stadium, under the 1,000 feet minimum required by Navy rules.

Multiple videos of the flyover, posted on YouTube, show the planes screaming low over the stadium.

“I can confirm the incident did happen,” said Lt. Cmdr. Phil Rosi, spokesman for Naval Air Force Atlantic. “But it would be inappropriate to comment further as these are not public figures and have an expectation of privacy.”

But documents obtained by Navy Times and authenticated by a senior Navy official familiar with the investigation name the pilots as Lt. Cmdr. Marc Fryman and Lt. Cmdr. Christopher Condon. Both were assigned to non-flying jobs through an administrative process called a Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Board, the results of which are not released by the Navy.

In the documents, Rear Adm. R.J. O’Hanlon, commander of AirLant, was unforgiving in his assessment of the incident and in Fryman and Condon’s future in naval aviation.

“Fryman failed to provide effective [composite risk management] for his flight lead and allowed an unsafe flyby to occur with nearly tragic consequences,” O’Hanlon wrote of the mission commander. “Despite his spotless record, his complacent, passive response to a major altitude transgression is unforgivable in my view.

“Continued aviation service involving flying is not in the best interest of Lt. Cmdr. Fryman or the United States Navy.”

O’Hanlon’s judgment of Condon was equally tough. The admiral wrote that Condon ignored low-altitude warnings and didn’t “keep altitude in his scan” and that the incident could have ended “tragically.”

O’Hanlon dismissed the conclusion by some of the reviewers of the board’s results that the altitude error was unintentional.

“The arguments written by prior endorsers that Lt. Cmdr. Condon’s actions were an honest mistake are not persuasive,” he wrote. “He is a senior, very experienced department head who placed his aircraft and wingman in a very dangerous position.”

Both will stay in the Navy, but O’Hanlon recommended both have a “warfare transition” to another officer community.

The pilots reported the low pass themselves upon landing and the Navy convened the evaluation board immediately to determine if the officers violated Navy rules.

Navy records show that Condon was reassigned to AirLant on Feb. 12, but Fryman’s record still shows him at VFA 136. However, sources say that he, too, is at AirLant.

“The results are tough for sure, but they broke the rules and got a proper punishment for what they did,” said the senior Navy official, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak on the matter. “It may seem tough, but it’s a safety issue and the admiral made the right call.”

The Internet...

Ruining cool shit since the early 90's

Wish I would have been there.  That would have been cool as shit!

Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash.

EX fighter pilot will still get you laid in a bar, she'll just be fatter.

With HD video



http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1014838

Different story if somebody @#$%ed up and 10,000 college students burned to death in the resultant fireball.

It sucks, but I get it.   If anything, I'm glad to see people can still get effectively canned for doing stupid shit with Taxpayer's Equipment.

What a cool fly over.

Bet that was badass to see (and hear).  It's great when they do that at the Nascar races

The word "dumbass" comes to mind.  

Most definitely.



 

You have no idea.





We used to shoot our cleaning rods out of the barrels of our M16A2s, with blanks, to kill rabbits.





Asking servicemen/women to "try not to fuck this thing up" is like asking our current regime to stop fucking the country up.



Not going to happen.



 

Failing to see an issue here.

I don't many people would mind, it is Georgia Tech after all. We could replace the missing ditch diggers pretty quickly.  

We had a cell of B-52's pass over once at tree top level for a parade with a 4 star AF general and it scared the crap out of everyone. Even set off car alarms, it was funny seeing the crowd hit the deck. But that is just my sense of humor.

Yeah because we can't trust our highly trained pilots not to crash into a stadium full of people while doing a flyover  Have we completely lost our balls as a country?

By the admiral's own admission those pilots had spotless records and now they are permanently grounded when there was no incident whatsoever?  It doesn't even say they disobeyed orders, they probably just wanted to put on a good show (and they did), but somebody with friends in high places didn't like it and those pilots got railroaded.

So with that ruling every military pilot that has ever flown in an air show should be grounded?  I can't count how many times I've seen .mil pilots do this. I'm probably in the minority on this but the Admiral sounds like he has it out for pilots, probably flunked out of aviation school.

They did disobey orders.  Safety regulations have the full force of law, and are usually written in blood.  Brand-new LT (sorry, ensign)?  Okay, slap them and send them on their way.  O5s?  Nope.  They new better, and gambled with taxpayer's money and equipment and civilian's lives.

I see no reason for grounding.

Me too. Something like that shouldn't end their careers.

So one mistake is all it takes.*




Hope mr. flag rank remembers that





eta: * and with no negative consequences either

another product of the nanny state

I wonder what we have collectively invested in training those guys all the way from flight school until now.I'm going to SWAG it at over $10 million probably?

 For my money,I'd rather see a reprimand than losing their skills as otherwise spotless aviators.However,it's not up to me to make these decisions.Shitty that a moment's error of "know what would be awesome?" could ruin 2 careers so fast but there you have it.

I agree. I have seen countless low passes made by jump pilots and one that nearly ended in disaster. They think it all looks cool and it does, but I'm the guy on the ground that will be dies screaming in burning jet fuel.



I fucking hate it.



 

Goosebumps, I have them

"Warfare transition"???

To what...subs...surface...SeaBees...JAG...GURL?  No community manager is going to take them.  They are spoiled goods.  Their careers are over.

this....

the biggest waste of tax dolllars is the fact that all that money psent to train highly skilled pilots then ground them over a bullshit incident.. they are trained to fly at tree top level in the fucking dark. i doubt they would have crashed.. some of you pussies on here need to get out of the house more

So I guess "buzzing the tower" isn't just met with your cranky CO scoffing at and can have real reprocussion?  

need a kleenex?

This about sums it up, IMO.  Though, maybe a severe reprimand should go on their records & ground them for the rest of both the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, or keep 'em from combat missions; there's always a need for cargo pilots & dudes to fly the non-glorious missions

That looks to be about the same height as the flyovers at USAFA games.

I wonder if any of the pilots from "The Right Stuff" era would survive the modern military bullcrap.  Warriors will act up on occasion, give them a tongue lashing and put them back to work.

When I was at Marine Corps TBS (The Basic School) in '99 we had a F/A-18c do a very low flyover....later that afternoon, while in class, one of our instructors informed us that the pilot will be grounded.  The .mil doesn't take too kindly to ignoring the safety regs.  Too bad, because low flyovers are great to watch.  I'm sure the flyover pilot got in more trouble than the pilot who almost droppd some mk82s on us out at CAX.

That is what happens when the gubment tells US no.

ouch.

I was asleep a few months back and had two of those fly directly over my house,I was so afraid I nearly had a heart attack, my house shook like a tin can.


Would really hate to be on the reviving end of one of those bad boys

Low passes have put more than one civilian pilot in jail and resulted in immediate revocation of certificates.

I don't exactly agree with punishment in this case or others, but these guys still have their rank and won't serve any time.  They should have got this authorized ahead of time, because it looked like an awesome display.

I wonder if they're flying cargo planes full of rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong?

Hopefully a little less trouble than the A-10 driver who dropped a GBU-12 on a bunch of guys when I was at Ft. Sill in '95.

In the other thread linked near the top of this thread, it appears they claimed their altimeters were fucked up or something to that line.   Then video shows up, and the Boss Man calls bullshit.  So they lied to their C.O., and got busted.  

Still don't think they shoulda had their wings pulled.

It's awful to see their careers ruined over this incident.

"The pilots, both mid-’90s graduates of Georgia Tech, flew over Bobby Dodd Stadium in downtown Atlanta at just a few hundred feet above the stadium, under the 1,000 feet minimum required by Navy rules"

They violated basic safety procedures, and did it in a public venue putting those spectators at risk..  End of story, end of flying career.  I worked for Admiral O'Hanlon for many years, I have the highest respect for him both as a leader and as a Naval Aviator.  If he is recommending throwing the book at them, they deserve it.

I agree 100% without question or reservation.




...still wish I was there for it.  

I F*cking HATE composite risk management!!!

+1

In all honesty, at 1:09 in the video, you see small bird fly across right before the jets get there.  It could just as easily have been a large bird, flying just a hunded feet higher, and gotten sucked into the engine and caused a catastrophe of unprecedented proportions...

This video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvlX2Fb0kZM

I was there, as I am a student there and those things sobered EVERYONE in the greek section up really quick from how low they were.

It got silent for a second then everyone went batshit crazy because the flyover was fucking awesome.

seems to me this isn't a risk management issue, it's a "you're not allowed to defy standing orders just because you feel like it" issue.

i threw out my firearms because i might have a negligent discharge

i sold my car because the brakes might fail

i karate kicked my tv becuase it might ruin my vision

i puked up my mcdonald's because it might clog my arteries

I really don't understand why there are military flyovers a college football games anyway.  Waste of taxpayer dollars plain and simple.  Now we piss away the careers of two front line Naval aviatiors.  The stupidity of this is epic on both accounts.  

i'll just wait for dave to tell us what should be done to these fine pilots