User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:41:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Who did you order from? Inquiring minds want to know.
ETA: There are dealers who people on this board WILL NEVER deal with beacuse of actions like this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:41:46 PM EDT
[#2]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=484387
here is the thread on arfcom link Im starting to really get irritated, im also waiting on another site to ship my paintball gun i ordered 3 weeks ago. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:43:44 PM EDT
[#3]
What about that free market economy?
hmmmm |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:44:49 PM EDT
[#4]
If you get your money back it's not worth bitching about.
Just don't buy from that company again. If/when you get to a manager you'll just get told the price was wrong and they reserve the right to cancel all orders with improper pricing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:44:50 PM EDT
[#5]
MAP is bullshit, IMO.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:45:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
MAP is bullshit, IMO. Is that magpul? Or all companies? Quoted:
What about that free market economy? hmmmm Which is bullshit why magpul can force them to sell at a certain price, they bought them from magpul and magpul tells them what to sell it for. FUCK YOU MAGPUL. These would have been my first PMAGS, im thinking of saying FU to all magpul products and stocking up on lancer L5's They are the ones that caused this shit |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:45:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
MAP is bullshit, IMO. Yeah, what ever happened to whatever the market will bare for prices? if a ban was coming and the price went to $40 each, anybody bitch then? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:50:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow, now im really starting to get agrivated.
I ordered apintball gun from ebay but from a well established paintball store. Bought a tank/. gun combo. Firsthey send wrong tank, ok let me keep it and sent me the right one. two weeks go by and no gun, i have called everyday asking where my gun is, these ass holes say we will call kingman( who its shipping from) and call you back, never do they call back, and finally today they tel me that UPS lost it, how fucking convinient, its now been 22 days since i ordered the fucking thing. Thats why im a little pissed off by the pmag thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:51:03 PM EDT
[#9]
If it is ADVERTISED, even if it is a mistake, the company should honor the price then change the website, post a retraction, whatever.
The ADVERTISED thing is the problem. This implies that the seller sent a publication to your home, e-mail address, or phone telling you that: "Hey! P-Mags with windows are $12.79 with free shipping!" Beacuse you searched them out, the ADVERTISED thing does not apply, so you basically have no recourse. I had this happen with 2 other companies, OMB Police Express and AIM Surplus, and BOTH gave me the advertised price, even though it was their mistake. I STILL shop with them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:51:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
MAP is bullshit, IMO. Is that magpul? Or all companies? Quoted:
What about that free market economy? hmmmm Which is bullshit why magpul can force them to sell at a certain price, they bought them from magpul and magpul tells them what to sell it for. FUCK YOU MAGPUL. These would have been my first PMAGS, im thinking of saying FU to all magpul products and stocking up on lancer L5's They are the ones that caused this shit MAP is indeed bullshit. In my mind anyway the "A" in MAP is ADVERTISED. IMO, a website ordering page is not "advertising". TV ad? Sure. Billboard? Sure. Banner ad? Sure. An UNSOLICITED catalog or mailing? Sure. But just the listing that the user has to navigate themselves to? No way thats "advertising". And the entire "Advertising" in MAP is just a shithouse lawyer dodge to get around antitrust/price-fixing laws anyway. If you need to guarantee a certain minimum price for your product, then sell it for no less than that to your distributors. Or, just sell it direct yourself. "Oh.. but we can't raise OUR prices.. that would cut into OUR sales..." (No shit Sherlock...) So trying to force the end retailers to do your dirty work for you is just "have your cake and eat it bullshit". |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 12:53:33 PM EDT
[#11]
I love how MAP only works one way.
We don't see Magpul calling every company thats selling them for 20 or 30 bucks each and having them strictly enforce their Suggested Retail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:01:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
What about that free market economy? hmmmm Polymer is Progress 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:02:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
MAP is bullshit, IMO. You are clearly not in any kind of retail business. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:23:02 PM EDT
[#14]
...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:25:58 PM EDT
[#15]
What's MAP? Violating it?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:27:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love how MAP only works one way. We don't see Magpul calling every company thats selling them for 20 or 30 bucks each and having them strictly enforce their Suggested Retail. Actually..I made such a call yesterday to a small gun-shop that was inflating prices to $23.99 a mag. Yes this does work both ways and we try to monitor it as best we can. But didnt you call under the pretense that the reasoning behind the 23.99 price was due to MagPul going out of business? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:27:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love how MAP only works one way. We don't see Magpul calling every company thats selling them for 20 or 30 bucks each and having them strictly enforce their Suggested Retail. Actually..I made such a call yesterday to a small gun-shop that was inflating prices to $23.99 a mag. Yes this does work both ways and we try to monitor it as best we can. I thought it was because he started a rumor of magpul closing. If i understand correctly, it was that he said you guys were closing which is why you called. I am sorry, but that phone call had nothing to d with price, in your dialogue with him you bring up the magpul closing rumor, not price Quoted:
Ok....I have followed the phone trail of fun this afternoon. First Call: Gun Shop T: This is Trevor with Magpul Industries, I need to speak with (employee). GS: Ok I'll go get him (I hear little tidbits in the background "yeah it's them") E: This is (Employee) T: Hi (employee), I understand one of your vendors informed you of some business happenings and you have relayed this to customers. Now all I'm going to ask you is the Vendor's phone number and a contact info and that you please end the rumor here. Just so you know, I'm not calling to yell or anything, I just want this little mess straightened up so we don't have to inflate the PMAG prices. E: No problem at all, you are going to want to call (middle man info) T: Excelent, thank you very much. This was a pretty stand up guy, so no need to flame or yell. Second Call: Middle Man T: This is Trevor with Magpul Industries, I need to speak with (Middleman). M: This is them. T: I'm hearing that one of your vendors has started a bit of a rumor about our company and we're just trying to get to the bottom of this so it can end, can you give me the info I need? M: Sure thing, you want to talk to (Vendor....2nd time I've heard this name mind you) T: Thank you very much. Third Call: The Vendor T: (Standard intro, get put on hold, transferred in) V: This is (Vendor) T: Well hello (Vendor), I've been hearing your name a little bit today. V: Is that so?? T: Yes it is. I've heard from multiple sources that you have been telling your people that Magpul Industries has been acquired by Charles Daly and will be soon closing our doors. Well sir, this is all news to us. V: I didn't ever say that! T: Well somebody did, and all I'm trying to make sure is that it's ends right here. V: I just told people that we used to get our mags from Daly and THEY closed so WE are short on mags. We'd love to be a vendor of yours though... T: Sir....that is not what this phone call is about, I'm trying to make sure that the rumors of magpul closing it's doors have been snuffed. Can i assume this will be the case after I hang up? V: Well definitel. You know we all love your clips, we've been selling magpul clips for a long time...(started on a long sail-puffing rant on our "clips") T: Well I'm glad you enjoy our products, but again, not what this call is about. I'm pretty sure I've said what I needed to say, so not to keep you any longer, no more rumors would be appreciated, and you have a good day. V: You too.... I know, not as exciting as you guys wanted, and for that I'm sorry. I do have to keep somewhat of a professional image, haha. Well that was fun, thanks CVTRPR for the heads up! Said it yourself |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:30:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: What's MAP? Violating it? Practically speaking it's price fixing by the manufacturer. "Minimum advertised price" In other words the manufacturer sets a price and if the dealer sells below that they get shut off as a dealer. Dealers have turned each other in before here to try to keep prices as high as possible on this site. Surefire is notorious for this. I didn't know Magpul was pulling this bullshit. RRA even started with this MAP nonsense. WTF, RRA? Plenty of other alternatives, thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:32:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love how MAP only works one way. We don't see Magpul calling every company thats selling them for 20 or 30 bucks each and having them strictly enforce their Suggested Retail. Actually..I made such a call yesterday to a small gun-shop that was inflating prices to $23.99 a mag. Yes this does work both ways and we try to monitor it as best we can. Can you please do the same for all stores that sell Pmags in/to CA? $20 disassembled Pmags suck. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:34:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Without getting into the business ethics behind it, MAP is a common tool used in many industries.
Regarding the business mentioned, I called them and politely informed them of our MAP policy and they mentioned that they were closing out what they had left of their Magpul products- hence the closeout pricing. If items were removed from their site then it was at THEIR discretion... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:36:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's MAP? Violating it? Practically speaking it's price fixing by the manufacturer. "Minimum advertised price" In other words the manufacturer sets a price and if the dealer sells below that they get shut off as a dealer. Dealers have turned each other in before here to try to keep prices as high as possible on this site. Surefire is notorious for this. I didn't know Magpul was pulling this bullshit. RRA even started with this MAP nonsense. WTF, RRA? Plenty of other alternatives, thanks. Well ..... now ya do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:36:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Why would a distributor(magpul) dictate what price a retailer can charge. What's the problem so long as they get their money. Seems like it's monopoly marketing/pricing. I'll stick with my usgi magazines if this is how they do business.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:38:37 PM EDT
[#23]
...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:40:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I was surprised to find out that even HSGI tries to have MAP. Jesus Christ they're nylon mag pouches, I'll get 'em from Tactical Tailor instead.Quoted: Quoted: What's MAP? Violating it? Practically speaking it's price fixing by the manufacturer. "Minimum advertised price" In other words the manufacturer sets a price and if the dealer sells below that they get shut off as a dealer. Dealers have turned each other in before here to try to keep prices as high as possible on this site. Surefire is notorious for this. I didn't know Magpul was pulling this bullshit. RRA even started with this MAP nonsense. WTF, RRA? Plenty of other alternatives, thanks. Well ..... now ya do. Google hints that Tango Down is doing this also. MAP makes you wonder why anyone bothers to be a dealer for these companies. Why bother buying a LaRue 10" rail from a dealer for the EXACT price that LaRue sells it for and LaRue will toss in a hat or some other crap? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:48:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Why would a distributor(magpul) dictate what price a retailer can charge. What's the problem so long as they get their money. Seems like it's monopoly marketing/pricing. I'll stick with my usgi magazines if this is how they do business. When I worked retail, the excuse we heard was that due to volume discounts and economies of scale, large retailers would be able to push smaller retailers out of business since they could significantly undercut them on price. MAP is supposed to guarantee a minimum profit margin. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:50:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why would a distributor(magpul) dictate what price a retailer can charge. What's the problem so long as they get their money. Seems like it's monopoly marketing/pricing. I'll stick with my usgi magazines if this is how they do business. When I worked retail, the excuse we heard was that due to volume discounts and economies of scale, large retailers would be able to push smaller retailers out of business since they could significantly undercut them on price. MAP is supposed to guarantee a minimum profit margin. So basically its a communistic idea then? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:53:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Yup, you got me... Can you comment on why Magpul chooses to force a minimum retail price? I'm not familiar with this stuff, guess I don't see what Magpul has to gain by this practice. ETA Read the post above, slow typing on my phone, that the case? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 1:57:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yup, you got me... Can you comment on why Magpul chooses to force a minimum retail price? I'm not familiar with this stuff, guess I don't see what Magpul has to gain by this practice. Uh, money? It's an artificial price floor. But that's free market capitalism for ya'. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:02:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's MAP? Violating it? Practically speaking it's price fixing by the manufacturer. "Minimum advertised price" In other words the manufacturer sets a price and if the dealer sells below that they get shut off as a dealer. Dealers have turned each other in before here to try to keep prices as high as possible on this site. Surefire is notorious for this. I didn't know Magpul was pulling this bullshit. RRA even started with this MAP nonsense. WTF, RRA? Plenty of other alternatives, thanks. Agreed, MAP is bullshit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:02:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why would a distributor(magpul) dictate what price a retailer can charge. What's the problem so long as they get their money. Seems like it's monopoly marketing/pricing. I'll stick with my usgi magazines if this is how they do business. When I worked retail, the excuse we heard was that due to volume discounts and economies of scale, large retailers would be able to push smaller retailers out of business since they could significantly undercut them on price. MAP is supposed to guarantee a minimum profit margin. So basically its a communistic idea then?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:03:23 PM EDT
[#31]
What the fuck??
let me try, and I do mean try, to wrap my head around this shit. People bitch because walmart uses best price and economies of scale practices. It runs small business out of business and makes people pissy. NOW people are bitching because an American company is trying to keep a large distributor from using volume pricing discounts to run other businesses out of business? Would you prefer Magpul sell at a flat price with no volume discounts? Frankly that would be a better solution than MAP I figure because if 1 mag is the same cost as 1 million then everyone plays on a level field. The question then is should the field be level in purchase price or level in advertised price? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:03:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Without getting into the business ethics behind it, MAP is a common tool used in many industries. And gun control is a common tool used in many countries. Does that make it right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:06:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:07:29 PM EDT
[#34]
There are ways around MAP pricing, and it depends on whether manuf. really want to enforce them. In my industry (Paintball) most E-tailers get around map by simply put "Call for best price" or on the website, you can add to cart and then check total to see the "Special" price, which reflects the non MAP pricing. Unfortunately, this has really not worked in this industry the way it was designed to, and is basically just something that isn't strictly enforced across the board.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:10:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
So basically its a communistic idea then? It's actually capitalism. You may not agree with it but it is what it is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:12:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Its price fixing and other vendors have been thrown off the site for that shit.Quoted: So basically its a communistic idea then? It's actually capitalism. You may not agree with it but it is what it is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:18:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
What about that free market economy? hmmmm No such thing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:20:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Would you have canceled previously established orders? NOW people are bitching because an American company is trying to keep a large distributor from using volume pricing discounts to run other businesses out of business? Would you prefer Magpul sell at a flat price with no volume discounts? Frankly that would be a better solution than MAP I figure because if 1 mag is the same cost as 1 million then everyone plays on a level field.
Why I am bitching? because of magpul my order of 5 pmags for $64 shipped was canceled. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:22:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Would you have canceled previously established orders? No way, if the customer has checked out and paid its a done deal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:23:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Would you have canceled previously established orders? No way, if the customer has checked out and paid its a done deal. And thats why i am fucking pissed. They cancled my order Then I was lied to by a customer rep on the phone who gave me attitude. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:23:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: MAP is bullshit, IMO. You are clearly not in any kind of retail business. I am not. As a consumer, it is annoying to see "Prices too low to print!" so that you have to call and ask the price. It's not actually protecting any other businesses, it's just making it more of a PITA to shop around for a product. It doesn't actually change anything. There's a place on the EE that sells RRA stuff. I have a back of my mind hankering for a Predator Pursuit upper. Problem is, I can never remember how much the guy is selling them for. I would love to be able to just look and see what he's selling them for, but I have to either call or email him, then start mulling over whether I want to buy one at this particular moment. Honestly, I can understand a literal enforcement of Minimum Advertised Price in mass advertisement. Go ahead and use the "Prices too low to print!" to draw people in, but once you're "in the store", let the price show. If (for example) this mag deal just shows the prices on their website, then I don't see a problem. Do we have to carry an item up to the cash register to find out the price when we go to Cabela's? No, they have a price tag so you can locate the item in the store and see the price. That's what I am saying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:24:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Apparently i am not allowed to badmouth an industry partner, as the thread showing the deal has been locked.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:26:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Did they force you to actually change your prices, or just limit the advertising of your discounted price? I'm getting a little bit confused as to what's going on here, a Minimum Advertised Price, or a Minimum Selling Price? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:28:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. And I won't be buying any fucking Magpul till this MAP bullshit stops. My wallet won't support MAP pricing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:29:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Did they force you to actually change your prices, or just limit the advertising of your discounted price? I'm getting a little bit confused as to what's going on here, a Minimum Advertised Price, or a Minimum Selling Price? Advertised price, but 90% percent of my business is on the web. We tried to make it so that the price only showed up when you added it to cart, but sales dropped. So you can't display the price if its under MAP on your site. At least thats how I understood it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:30:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love how MAP only works one way. We don't see Magpul calling every company thats selling them for 20 or 30 bucks each and having them strictly enforce their Suggested Retail. Actually..I made such a call yesterday to a small gun-shop that was inflating prices to $23.99 a mag. Yes this does work both ways and we try to monitor it as best we can. Oh thanks for saving us from that. I'm sure we were all foaming at the mouth and in a buying frenzy with that deal. That would have corrected itself when noone bought any of their shit and you would have had enough time to make an extra p-mag with the time you saved not having to call anyone.
Did you plan on going around to every gunshow I've been to in the last year and correct their 25$ a mag price too? Why not? Oh that's right, because NOONE FUCKING BUYS THEM. MAP is bullshit and only works ONE way. You can argue that it doesn't but anyone with an IQ over 10 can save themselves from inflated prices with a quick google search on teh internets. If they can't, they're too dumb to know any better and deserve what they get. This is going in the same file I have Spike's Tactical in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:35:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Magpul called us as well a while back and forced us to change our prices. I guess its pretty normal though, they can do what they want. Did they force you to actually change your prices, or just limit the advertising of your discounted price? I'm getting a little bit confused as to what's going on here, a Minimum Advertised Price, or a Minimum Selling Price? Advertised price, but 90% percent of my business is on the web. We tried to make it so that the price only showed up when you added it to cart, but sales dropped. So you can't display the price if its under MAP on your site. At least thats how I understood it. Ok, so that gets into the definition of store and advertising that I was talking about in my earlier reply. Yeah, that's bullshit. Not being able to have the price on the product description in a webstore is the equivalent of forcing Cabela's to put "Take it to the register to find out super secret price!" on price tags instead of a dollar amount. Somewhere, somehow, we need a legal definition of "Advertised" and "In-Store" for businesses with internet presence. That's where most of the sense of injustice is coming from, I believe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:36:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Call Weights and Measures...This will be more of a headaches then you could ever pull off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#49]
I cant call this damn website now that its after 4pm mountain. DAMN IT.
Other forums are saying their orders were canceled aswell. Maybe i should go around and tell them magpul was at the center of this, i wonder how everyone would like that. I dont own a single PMAG, and after this, i dont think i ever will. Fuck You magpul, im going to get some Lancer L5's Noone recieved a god damn advertisement, yet you had to go threaten the company with loosing their right to sell magpul products, thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2010 2:44:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its price fixing and other vendors have been thrown off the site for that shit.
Quoted:
So basically its a communistic idea then? It's actually capitalism. You may not agree with it but it is what it is. BUT since its MagPul and the lemmings that follow MagPul blindly will see nothing wrong with this. I think its a pretty piss poor business practice and just kinda continues my reasoning to limit my purchases of MagPul kit. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
