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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:05:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryI really do enjoy reading these types of updates.... 
Thanks again Nolo!! |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:22:53 PM EDT
[#2]
When new MG's are finally legal my credit cards will be a cryin'
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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:25:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Nice work, once again NOLO!
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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:58:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Hammer:
When new MG's are finally legal my credit cards will be a cryin' I'll let loose tears of joy and freedom long before the first bill is due. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 12:36:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSpaniard]
[#5]
Kolbe v. Hogan, requiring application of strict scrutiny to Maryland's "assault weapon" and mag ban, is a good read for sure. One thing to keep in mind though: Maryland's AG has already declared his intention to seek en banc review and, failing such relief, certiorari. This is one of the biggest post-Heller 2A victories. I just hope it sticks.
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Posted: 2/5/2016 1:27:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryGood job sir. I loved the part pushing for discovery of the "list"! I wonder if that will get addressed? I see you threw in the DHS use of the automatic weapons for self defense also!  Excellent work. It really does bring a smile to my face reading that stuff. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 7:31:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SageEBR:
ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By shaun315:
Great read, much easier to follow than the ATF's circular Chewbacca defense type drivel. ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. Maybe Chewbacca likes little people? |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 8:08:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryBRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eminently reasonable, and, it appears, a SOLID Kick to the nuts. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 9:33:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJK07734:
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eminently reasonable, and, it appears, a SOLID Kick to the nuts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJK07734:
BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Eminently reasonable, and, it appears, a SOLID Kick to the nuts. Very well written! |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 9:51:25 AM EDT
[#10]
can someone explain the brief to me at a third grade reading level, maybe with some colorful pop up pictures
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Posted: 2/5/2016 10:46:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tohbii:
can someone explain the brief to me at a third grade reading level, maybe with some colorful pop up pictures Wait around. If we win this case will be taught in law schools. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 10:53:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
I just wish he had worked in the ATFs loss of several M4s from various "secured" cars over the years. Even the ATF has MGs for defense. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By williewvr:
Originally Posted By IHTFP08:
boom. good reply. i like shifting the burden on the govt to prove legal mgs are dangerous, and the speculation of what "could" happen if misused by a criminal. I just wish he had worked in the ATFs loss of several M4s from various "secured" cars over the years. Even the ATF has MGs for defense. More info on this? |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 10:58:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SageEBR:
ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By shaun315:
Great read, much easier to follow than the ATF's circular Chewbacca defense type drivel. ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. I thought the Wookie lived in DC at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?
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USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:03:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
Wait around. If we win this case will be taught in law schools. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
Originally Posted By Tohbii:
can someone explain the brief to me at a third grade reading level, maybe with some colorful pop up pictures Wait around. If we win this case will be taught in law schools. Well said. It's truly incredible to see this all unfold, and I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:10:01 AM EDT
[#15]
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DE, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:11:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Awesome read, cant wait to see the legal knots they twist themselves into so they can say the gay marraige ruling does not apply
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USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:17:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Third_Rail]
[#17]
The parting conclusion, after all of the citations and logic coming before, is simply exquisite.
There is no question that Appellant Watson’s M-16 is the quintessential military and militia rifle of its time, and thus, is protected under the Second Amendment. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:36:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Can you give me some cliff notes I can't open the PDF on my iPad
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:39:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tr6r:
Can you give me some cliff notes I can't open the PDF on my iPad Nolo just threw a bunch of very recent cases to embarrass the atf. You know... those cases that democrats loved because of equal rights and their feelings... yea, he used those against em. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 11:47:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris0013:
Maybe Chewbacca likes little people? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris0013:
Originally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By shaun315:
Great read, much easier to follow than the ATF's circular Chewbacca defense type drivel. ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. Maybe Chewbacca likes little people? I mean, who doesn't like their dick to look bigger.
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Posted: 2/5/2016 12:03:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
I mean, who doesn't like their dick to look bigger. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeCoastie:
Originally Posted By Chris0013:
Originally Posted By SageEBR:
Originally Posted By shaun315:
Great read, much easier to follow than the ATF's circular Chewbacca defense type drivel. ATF: ...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Nolo: Damn it! ... their using the Chewbacca defense! ATF: Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major government agency, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must ban machine guns! The defense rests. Maybe Chewbacca likes little people? I mean, who doesn't like their dick to look bigger. 
Oh, and to keep it on topic. Sent the Heller foundation some more money. 
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Posted: 2/5/2016 12:05:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJ_Dual:
<a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/AJ_Dual/media/Chewbacca_acc3e0_5656250_zpsvek3sy3l.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/AJ_Dual/Chewbacca_acc3e0_5656250_zpsvek3sy3l.jpg</a> Oh, and to keep it on topic. Sent the Heller foundation some more money.
Leave it to GD to foster a situation resulting in fond memories of anal prolapse. |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 12:29:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: semiautomatic]
[#23]
Quote HistoryThat was great! Thank you for all the hard work that you and your team are doing.  |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 12:42:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finnbear:
More info on this? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finnbear:
Originally Posted By williewvr:
Originally Posted By IHTFP08:
boom. good reply. i like shifting the burden on the govt to prove legal mgs are dangerous, and the speculation of what "could" happen if misused by a criminal. I just wish he had worked in the ATFs loss of several M4s from various "secured" cars over the years. Even the ATF has MGs for defense. More info on this? Here's one. http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/leads-on-gun-stolen-from-atf-fizzled-out-ih9b3i8-201363991.html?ipad=y |
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Posted: 2/5/2016 1:41:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Will NOLO be involved with any fight with the NICS denials not being appealable?
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CT, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2016 2:38:21 PM EDT
[#26]
seems like the govt cant be trusted with machine guns either. i rarely hear about registered mgs being stolen or semis being converted, but govt guns being stolen. some solid atf work.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2016 2:13:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FiddyoneGyrojet]
[#27]
(ignore, no CCBS commands or permutations of a youtube URL work on this nightmare of a website)
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/6/2016 2:21:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IHTFP08:
seems like the govt cant be trusted with machine guns either. i rarely hear about registered mgs being stolen or semis being converted, but govt guns being stolen. some solid atf work. i have to say that it's probably due to no new MGs being registered, and registry being an upper class luxury before '86, no legal MGs are being nabbed because they effectively don't exist. a civilian owner of any weapon they payed for with their own money does take much better care of their gear than any government agent or agency, simply because they payed for it themselves, and not with taxpayer money. also, the ATF is a joke where the punchline is "they threw the flashbang on a baby and got suspended for a few months with pay", but you all knew that. |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:47:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Captain_Morgan]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FiddyoneGyrojet:
(ignore, no CCBS commands or permutations of a youtube URL work on this nightmare of a website) Non-team accounts can't embed youtube videos. If you post a vid, just use the URL tags around the link to the video. If it's any good, someone will embed for you. ETA: Corrected typo per below. 
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Posted: 2/6/2016 12:11:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
Non-team accounts can't embed youtube videos. If you post a vid, just use the URL tags around the link to the video. If it's any good, someone will embed for you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
Originally Posted By FiddyoneGyrojet:
(ignore, no CCBS commands or permutations of a youtube URL work on this nightmare of a website) Non-team accounts can't embed youtube videos. If you post a vid, just use the URL tags around the link to the video. If it's any good, someone will embed for you. and then they get the cred for posting hotness? not worth it brah |
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USA
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Posted: 2/6/2016 7:53:16 PM EDT
[#31]
so theoretically, if/when this makes it to the supreme court and they rule in our favor would it strike down all AWB?
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Posted: 2/6/2016 8:58:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gamma762]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prockdiddy:
so theoretically, if/when this makes it to the supreme court and they rule in our favor would it strike down all AWB? No, but it would establish a principle that could be cited in future lawsuits against those AWBs. Then again, if MGs are a protected right, why bother with a mere "AW" 
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Posted: 2/6/2016 9:06:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prockdiddy:
so theoretically, if/when this makes it to the supreme court and they rule in our favor would it strike down all AWB? No, the various cases out there concerning AWBs have that potential. |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 2/6/2016 10:04:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
DOJ Response to Hollis' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice 
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USA
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:06:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
DOJ Response to Hollis' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice Every time I read something from the DOJ I end up looking like 
I do like the reply to their motion. Short, sweet, and no BS logic involved. Can't wait to see their response to that, but I bet it can be summed up as "nu-huh!" |
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Posted: 2/6/2016 11:08:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
DOJ Response to Hollis' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice Wow, their response was very childish, yet again (surprise!). Classy and straight to the punch response, yet again by Nolo and the team.
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Posted: 2/7/2016 9:05:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fattyfat:
http://byt.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Mic-Drop.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fattyfat:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
DOJ Response to Hollis' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice http://byt.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Mic-Drop.gif THIS 
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Posted: 2/7/2016 9:24:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Simple reply. Hopefully saving more bombs when you really need to go nuclear.
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CT, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2016 10:53:53 AM EDT
[#40]
so they aren't admitting its a mistake but are still claiming no approved forms after 5/19/86?
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:06:58 AM EDT
[#41]
I love it!
However, the Form 1 attached to the Motion for Judicial Notice is still valid and has not been “revoked” as Appellant’s Form 1. This approved (and not revoked) Form 1 cuts straight to the meat of the issue: Have the Appellees allowed post-May 19, 1986 machineguns to be transferred to non-governmental entities? That answer is yes.
That the application was submitted prior to the May 1986 amendment to the Gun Control Act has no bearing on the ultimate approval date, as the applicant cannot make the approved machinegun until it was approved on September 5, 1986, well after the May 19, 1986 cutoff, because that machinegun would not have been lawfully owned before the approval date. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:11:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ejeviking]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: DOJ Response to Holl' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice  Can't be. Our own resident ATF agent in this thread said it was revoked.  (Maybe a different form 1?)I can't find his post right now or I would link it. I understand. we are talking the Form one that was submitted before the deadline and approved after. |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:18:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ejeviking:
So you are telling me that the Form 1 is STILL valid and has not been "un-approved" by the ATF???
Can't be. Our own resident ATF agent in this thread said it was revoked. (Maybe a different form 1?)
I can't find his post right now or I would link it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ejeviking:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
DOJ Response to Holl' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice
Can't be. Our own resident ATF agent in this thread said it was revoked. (Maybe a different form 1?)
I can't find his post right now or I would link it. Different one |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:21:44 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Different one Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By ejeviking: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: DOJ Response to Holl' Motion for Judicial Notice Hollis' Reply to DOJ's Response to Motion for Judicial Notice Can't be. Our own resident ATF agent in this thread said it was revoked. (Maybe a different form 1?)I can't find his post right now or I would link it. Different one Good morning sir. Well done. I just love their "I'm the .gov and I'll tell you what is relevant" attitude. Hang 'em from a yardarm NOLO! |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:25:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Leisure_Shoot]
[#45]
How "heavy" is the government defense of this case? Are they using their biggest, heaviest lawyers to fight it, or is this somewhat flying under the radar and to some extent contained within a specific portion of the Justice Department and ATF? IOW, is their back against a wall and they are fully engaged, or is this just another court case amongst hundreds of others that the government deals with?
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Posted: 2/7/2016 11:43:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leisure_Shoot: How "heavy" is the government defense of this case? Are they using their biggest, heaviest lawyers to fight it, or is this somewhat flying under the radar and to some extent contained within a specific portion of the Justice Department and ATF? IOW, is their back against a wall and they are fully engaged, or is this just another court case amongst hundreds of others that the government deals with? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2016 12:07:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Bump
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Posted: 2/7/2016 1:17:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: captainpooby]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
How "heavy" is the government defense of this case? Are they using their biggest, heaviest lawyers to fight it, or is this somewhat flying under the radar and to some extent contained within a specific portion of the Justice Department and ATF? IOW, is their back against a wall and they are fully engaged, or is this just another court case amongst hundreds of others that the government deals with? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
How "heavy" is the government defense of this case? Are they using their biggest, heaviest lawyers to fight it, or is this somewhat flying under the radar and to some extent contained within a specific portion of the Justice Department and ATF? IOW, is their back against a wall and they are fully engaged, or is this just another court case amongst hundreds of others that the government deals with? These are the two attorneys on the latest briefs or whatever they're called. They don't look like junior grade guys. This is from Georgetown Law school: Michael S. Raab
Appellate Litigation Counsel, U.S. Department of Justice, Civil Division, Appellate Staff, Adjunct Professor of Law B.S., Indiana; J.D., Yale B.S. with highest distinction, Indiana University; J.D., Yale. Professor Raab is an attorney with the Appellate Staff, Civil Division, of the U.S. Department of Justice. Previously, he was an associate with the firm of Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering and law clerk to the Honorable David M. Ebel, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. This from the American University Washington College of Law Patrick Nemeroff
Email: [email protected] vCard Patrick Nemeroff is an attorney on the Appellate Staff of the Civil Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. Before joining the Appellate Staff, he served for three years as a trial attorney in the Civil Division’s Federal Programs Branch. In those positions, Mr Nemeroff has represented the government in district courts and the federal courts of appeals in cases involving challenges to federal statutes, government policies, and the actions of federal officials. Before joining the Justice Department, Mr. Nemeroff clerked for Judge William A. Fletcher of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. He received a B.A. from Yale University and a J.D. from Stanford Law School. He joined the Washington College of Law as an adjunct professor in 2013. Currently Teaching LAW-517-026 Lgl Rhtrc: Wrtng & Rsrch II Degrees & Universities B.A., Yale University (cum laude) J.D., Stanford Law School (Order of the Coif; Urban A Sontheimer Third-Year Honor; Urban A. Sontheimer Second-Year Honor ) |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 1:54:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Nolo...
Since the ATF never requires that an owner in anyway certify that an approved machine gun has actually been made into a machine gun. Obviously one could surmise that if an approved build was later sold and transferred as a machine gun that it was most likely one, but at the end of the day, how exactly can the ATF verify that any approved machine gun was actual built into a machine gun prior to the 1986 cut off? Not sure if that line of reasoning plays into your arguments somewhere but the thought occurred to me after reading your response to their response to your request  .
What also struck me about your response is I can see them now going back and revoking every approved machine gun that was approved after May 12,1986 as they'd have to factor in mailing times from the time the form was approved, packaged and mailed to the person who submitted for approval and then time to manufacture. Doing so would at least allow them to say "We just fixed that!" ...The fallout over at Subguns would be epic and I'd be curious to know if the ATF would be on the hook for any lost values in guns. Wes |
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Posted: 2/7/2016 2:14:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wangstang:
Nolo... Since the ATF never requires that an owner in anyway certify that an approved machine gun has actually been made into a machine gun. Obviously one could surmise that if an approved build was later sold and transferred as a machine gun that it was most likely one, but at the end of the day, how exactly can the ATF verify that any approved machine gun was actual built into a machine gun prior to the 1986 cut off? Not sure if that line of reasoning plays into your arguments somewhere but the thought occurred to me after reading your response to their response to your request .
What also struck me about your response is I can see them now going back and revoking every approved machine gun that was approved after May 12,1986 as they'd have to factor in mailing times from the time the form was approved, packaged and mailed to the person who submitted for approval and then time to manufacture. Doing so would at least allow them to say "We just fixed that!" ...The fallout over at Subguns would be epic and I'd be curious to know if the ATF would be on the hook for any lost values in guns. Wes You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. Those that thought they were IBTL are very likely going to get an expensive lesson. |
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