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Posted: 5/1/2024 12:50:15 AM EDT
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wild-looking-russian-turtle-tanks-221631886.html
 Russian 'turtle tank' column launches attack on Ukraine in Krasnohorivka |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:00:33 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:02:38 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:05:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryI mean you hit them where the armor is weak... Ok they just add armor to those areas. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:08:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Ukraine will next add sticky stuff to their bomblets. Make a hole in the sheet metal with a sticky bomb, then drop the next one.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:17:57 AM EDT
[#5]
In 1972, a gopnik conscript unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they actually committed. These men eventually escaped from a minimum security gulag to the Russian underground. Today, still not wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if they aren't all passed out drunk....maybe you can hire: The Backwards-R-Team.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:46:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Dammit, now you got that damn song playing in my head!
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:11:31 AM EDT
[#7]
I can't wait to see what a Beirut size nook is going to look like from drone.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:17:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryI remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting "Cuck Cages" on their tanks. Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:32:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting " Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Screenshot_20240501_131508_Samsung_Inter-3202599.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting " Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Screenshot_20240501_131508_Samsung_Inter-3202599.JPG “Cope Cages”. For Coping, with drones. And yeah, when a drone can drop a grenade through your hatch at any time, you kinda need some overhead cover at a bare minimum. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:39:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting "Cuck Cages" on their tanks. Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Screenshot_20240501_131508_Samsung_Inter-3202599.JPG Will be neat to see when the Orc Cope CIWS makes its debut. Zapping cheap drones like a bug lantern in Pokrovsk or somewhere  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:45:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting "Cuck Cages" on their tanks. Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Screenshot_20240501_131508_Samsung_Inter-3202599.JPG The Russians originally intended them to stop javelins. That didn't work. That's why we mock them. They still don't stop drones. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:51:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Soldiers improvising and adapting on the battlefield is certainly nothing new. I remember seeing a whole book of pictures of just US gun trucks in Vietnam; mods like mounting m113 bodies on the back of 5 tons wasn't uncommon. There were a lot of Mad Max looking Hummers and other vehicles running around Iraq before the uparmored packages started showing up. RPG cages were common on Strikers and stuff too.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:52:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Cope Cages”. For Coping, with drones. And yeah, when a drone can drop a grenade through your hatch at any time, you kinda need some overhead cover at a bare minimum. That's the terminology now, it wasn't back then (at least on the Chans when this was first discussed) |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:54:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Russians originally intended them to stop javelins. That didn't work. That's why we mock them. They still don't stop drones. That's not accurate at all. The IDF isn't dumb and they've adopted this  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 2:59:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not accurate at all. The IDF isn't dumb and they've adopted this https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/idf-merkava-mk-3-tank-with-a-new-probabl-3202619.JPG |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:00:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, who doesn't want to fight in the shade? I get that reference 
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:01:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not accurate at all. It is accurate.  They knew about loitering munitions but Ukraine had received Javelins under trump years earlier which was the entire reason they were developed. The above pic was at the end of 2021.  Attached FileHow effective was this cope cage, again? |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:03:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading the large Ukraine GD thread where the usual peanut gallery were laughing at the Russians for putting "Cuck Cages" on their tanks. Now it's just the standard for everyone, even the Israelis. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Screenshot_20240501_131508_Samsung_Inter-3202599.JPG Would not surprise me if the Abrams got their own cope cages in the next decade. I'm sure they're avoiding it now to maintain integrity but it certainly parallels the helmets vs kepis of WW1. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 3:08:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is accurate. https://i.postimg.cc/50jRMrpN/1647896027181-126-72-3-430-431-2021-1.webp They knew about loitering munitions but Ukraine had received Javelins under trump years earlier which was the entire reason they were developed. The above pic was at the end of 2021. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51435/Screenshot_2024-05-01_020110_png-3202621.JPG How effective was this cope cage, again? The IDF adopted them several years after their introduction. It's def not a silver bullet to drones (nothing is) but you'll be seeing a lot more of this and not less |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:09:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryLooks like one of the German turret designs in World of Tanks. 
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:18:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Don't you just put a small pre-warhead on your munition to blast through l, and the main body passes through that hole to impact?
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:34:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryThat looks like the dual use of multi-layer protection plus the "I am a storage shed" look to fool autonomous AI terminator drones.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:34:27 AM EDT
[#23]
next generation of tank design, the cope cage function will be integrated in the overall design from the get-go. maybe it will be all turtle.
now it's just an band-aid add-on, to deal with drone warfare. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:35:09 AM EDT
[#24]
The conclusion I’ve reached is that these turtle tanks are an attempt to conceal weak points from small, inexpensive commercial drones with minimal payloads. Rather than meaningful uparmoring.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:01:07 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The conclusion I’ve reached is that these turtle tanks are an attempt to conceal weak points from small, inexpensive commercial drones with minimal payloads. Rather than meaningful uparmoring. It's also panic and desperation from tank crews / units. Russian armor losses are astounding relative to the amount of ground being gained. Those at risk are doing anything they can to try and improve their chances, which is why you see so many absurd and unusual measures taken. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:34:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The conclusion I’ve reached is that these turtle tanks are an attempt to conceal weak points from small, inexpensive commercial drones with minimal payloads. Rather than meaningful uparmoring. You are not wrong |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:45:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's also panic and desperation from tank crews / units. Russian armor losses are astounding relative to the amount of ground being gained. Those at risk are doing anything they can to try and improve their chances, which is why you see so many absurd and unusual measures taken. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The conclusion I’ve reached is that these turtle tanks are an attempt to conceal weak points from small, inexpensive commercial drones with minimal payloads. Rather than meaningful uparmoring. It's also panic and desperation from tank crews / units. Russian armor losses are astounding relative to the amount of ground being gained. Those at risk are doing anything they can to try and improve their chances, which is why you see so many absurd and unusual measures taken. A lot of the WWII M4 Sherman up armoring in the ETO was along the same lines. Desperate crews trying to come up with a solution against big German guns and shaped charged rocket launchers. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:03:57 AM EDT
[#28]
I don’t know why anyone bothers posting anything when FS knows everything you bunch of idiots…..lol
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:11:32 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 1972, a gopnik conscript unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they actually committed. These men eventually escaped from a minimum security gulag to the Russian underground. Today, still not wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if they aren't all passed out drunk....maybe you can hire: The Backwards-R-Team. [chuckle] |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:13:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 1972, a gopnik conscript unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they actually committed. These men eventually escaped from a minimum security gulag to the Russian underground. Today, still not wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if they aren't all passed out drunk....maybe you can hire: The Backwards-R-Team.  |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:16:10 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you just put a small pre-warhead on your munition to blast through l, and the main body passes through that hole to impact? Or a stand-off EFP. The jet will go through both sides of that thing like butter. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:20:01 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Cope Cages”. For Coping, with drones. And yeah, when a drone can drop a grenade through your hatch at any time, you kinda need some overhead cover at a bare minimum. Early in the war we laughed at their cope cages because they were an attempt to stop the top-attack ATGM's like the Javelin. Eventually as the Jav's (and everything else) ran low/out the drones appeared and saved the day. But yeah, those anti-drone cages must have some benefits since EVERYONE is using them. If it looks stupid but works, it's not stupid. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:21:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not accurate at all. The IDF isn't dumb and they've adopted this https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/idf-merkava-mk-3-tank-with-a-new-probabl-3202619.JPG "Our drones will blot out the sun!".... ..."then we will fight in the shade"... |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:24:25 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would not surprise me if the Abrams got their own cope cages in the next decade. I'm sure they're avoiding it now to maintain integrity but it certainly parallels the helmets vs kepis of WW1. We will develop a drone defense that will cost 20 million per tank and work just as good as the cope cage. Actually I think it IS possible that some EW solution comes up that totally negates all drones as a threat. Then something else will be developed. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:28:15 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The IDF adopted them several years after their introduction. It's def not a silver bullet to drones (nothing is) but you'll be seeing a lot more of this and not less The simple top cage or "Bimini Top" (boating term) is probably effective against drone dropped bombs and grenades, especially when parked and the hatches are open. But against the kamikaze drones sporting the RPG warhead that comes in horizontal...worthless. The Russian turtle tank is an attempt to stop the kamikaze drones and forces the drones to attack the front of the tank, where it can withstand the RPG instead of the rear deck and turret ring that was causing a LOT of kabooms. It's probably somewhat effective. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:37:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or a stand-off EFP. The jet will go through both sides of that thing like butter. Or tandem warheads...But the drones are about maxed out for weight/range battery power etc and the UA doesnt have limitless amounts of fancy ordinance they can modify. In some cases they have repurposed EX from ERA panels from knocked out tanks for drone use. Both the UA and the RU are doing weird, imperfect, sometimes bizzarro shit trying to stay alive under the very difficult equipment and supply limitations. In a peer conflict where the first few weeks, months, years, of furious missile launches and high-tech wizardry going boom, we grind each other down into a stalemate (like Ukraine or WWI) we would very much end up in a similar Mad Max type struggle, cobbling together what we can. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:42:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or tandem warheads...But the drones are about maxed out for weight/range battery power etc and the UA doesnt have limitless amounts of fancy ordinance they can modify. In some cases they have repurposed EX from ERA panels from knocked out tanks for drone use. Both the UA and the RU are doing weird, imperfect, sometimes bizzarro shit trying to stay alive under the very difficult equipment and supply limitations. In a peer conflict where the first few weeks, months, years, of furious missile launches and high-tech wizardry going boom, we grind each other down into a stalemate (like Ukraine or WWI) we would very much end up in a similar Mad Max type struggle, cobbling together what we can.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:47:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's also panic and desperation from tank crews / units. Russian armor losses are astounding relative to the amount of ground being gained. Those at risk are doing anything they can to try and improve their chances, which is why you see so many absurd and unusual measures taken. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:50:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Just wait until they cut the cake.  
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Posted: 5/1/2024 8:52:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Early in the war we laughed at their cope cages because they were an attempt to stop the top-attack ATGM's like the Javelin. Eventually as the Jav's (and everything else) ran low/out the drones appeared and saved the day. But yeah, those anti-drone cages must have some benefits since EVERYONE is using them. If it looks stupid but works, it's not stupid. If it's Ukraine or Israel, then it's a smart cost-effective measure to neutralize enemy weapons and we should emulate it. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:25:31 AM EDT
[#42]
Sort of like WWII torpedo blisters.
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:27:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Remember the Stryker camo netting and RPG cages?
Looked like a fucking gypsy wagon. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:37:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is accurate. https://i.postimg.cc/50jRMrpN/1647896027181-126-72-3-430-431-2021-1.webp They knew about loitering munitions but Ukraine had received Javelins under trump years earlier which was the entire reason they were developed. The above pic was at the end of 2021. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/51435/Screenshot_2024-05-01_020110_png-3202621.JPG How effective was this cope cage, again? Drones... Drones... The IDF isn't dealing with Javi's Top cover will provide some standoff for many Uke drone delivered packages, Javi's are another matter entirely. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:37:52 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:46:05 AM EDT
[#46]
The tool shed armor seems to work against drones to some extent but there must be a huge tradeoff. The tank is about 10X easier to spot than before and will be an even bigger shit magnet than usual, the turret firing arc can't be more than 25 degrees or so, and situational awareness - which already sucks in all tanks and doubly so old Russian tanks - must be hovering just above zero. So yeah, it's harder to kill, but now it can hardly fight at all, so....
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:46:52 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not accurate at all. The IDF isn't dumb and they've adopted this https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/idf-merkava-mk-3-tank-with-a-new-probabl-3202619.JPG Added benefit of fighting in the shade |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember the Stryker camo netting and RPG cages? Looked like a fucking gypsy wagon. I remember using Hesco baskets to make curved roofs for grenade protection on our turrets and pvc pipe to redirect power lines over our MRAPs in Iraq over a decade ago. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:54:03 AM EDT
[#49]
So Instead of dropping the explosive ontop of the turtle tank, they will just kamakazie fly it into the frint? or have the explisve hang by a rope and fly it into the front?
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Posted: 5/1/2024 9:54:07 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember using Hesco baskets to make curved roofs for grenade protection on our turrets and pvc pipe to redirect power lines over our MRAPs in Iraq over a decade ago. Under that cover was my home for 15 months. One of the few times I rode in an armored vehicle I actually got hit with a hand grenade, imagine that. 
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