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Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:27:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Wow, I was just getting ready to sell about 10k once fired 5.56 LC, WCC military brass, guess I'll hold onto it now.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:27:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Tag to see what gets discovered here.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:30:22 AM EDT
[#3]
This might be a good opportunity to mount some pressure on Congress to intervene.

"We're in the middle of the worst economic crisis in generations and the military is eliminating a dependable profit source.  These materials that are sold also allow the ammunition industry to supply law enforcement with affordable bulk ammunition and the advanced ammunition used by elite law enforcement and military special forces."

Play their cards against them...  "This is gov't waste and it will hurt cops and troops."
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:38:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:38:43 AM EDT
[#5]
This a huge deal if it turns out to be real....I guess I didn't need to really say that, you all know the affect this will have
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:40:42 AM EDT
[#6]
While this sucks massive donkey balls –– I hope the people calling for the OP to be banned and insulting him will man up and apologize...
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:41:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Hey all, I am the production manager at Summit Ammunition.  Much of our production is using once fired military components.

We buy brass and projos in very large lots, 100,000 pcs at a time. Thousands of pounds at a time.

From what I have gathered today by talking to many folks in the industry is that this affects our supply of these components.

For those who don't believe this, please call me toll free at 1-877-726-4345, and I will gladly work out a deal to buy all of your once fired LC brass.  Very large amounts only, please!

Ask for Dan.


Dan McFarland
Production Manager
Summit Ammunition
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:41:39 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Interesting.

So is this a DOD driven thing, or is GL pushing it because they bid high on the SV contract and now with low scrap rpices are losing their ass?

Moving all brass to SV sales is idiotic.


The SV manager said it came down from DLA.


Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#9]
I would bet that this change in policy is coming from the Obama adminstration. Many in Congress are leery of banning guns, so to accomplish the same goal, they will stop the flow of once fired brass to reloaders, thus pushing the price of ammo even higher. Next we will see a exective order banning the importation of foreign ammo, causing prices to skyrocket even further, not to mention an even worse shortage. Then an ammo tax.  

The result is, owning and shooting guns will be so expensive, few will be able to afford it.

No good will come of this.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:45:53 AM EDT
[#10]




Quoted:

While this sucks massive donkey balls –– I hope the people calling for the OP to be banned and insulting him will man up and apologize...




+1
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:49:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Again, sorry for being a prick.  At least I can say I was half-right.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:50:08 AM EDT
[#12]
"If they ban guns and ammo, I'll just reload."

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Hey all, I am the production manager at Summit Ammunition.  Much of our production is using once fired military components.

We buy brass and projos in very large lots, 100,000 pcs at a time. Thousands of pounds at a time.

From what I have gathered today by talking to many folks in the industry is that this affects our supply of these components.

For those who don't believe this, please call me toll free at 1-877-726-4345, and I will gladly work out a deal to buy all of your once fired LC brass.  Very large amounts only, please!

Ask for Dan.


Dan McFarland
Production Manager
Summit Ammunition



I have never saved my brass but I will start now for sure. Not that I could ever sell to you (because I wouldnt have enough to help with what you needed) but you bring up a very valid point which is there will now be a very large market for once fired brass!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:57:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I would bet that this change in policy is coming from the Obama adminstration. Many in Congress are leery of banning guns, so to accomplish the same goal, they will stop the flow of once fired brass to reloaders, thus pushing the price of ammo even higher. Next we will see a exective order banning the importation of foreign ammo, causing prices to skyrocket even further, not to mention an even worse shortage. Then an ammo tax.  

The result is, owning and shooting guns will be so expensive, few will be able to afford it.

No good will come of this.


Go after the ammo - not the guns.

Fudds won't complain that much if their 5-10 rounds/year cost $1 per and you avoid the costly (politically) battle of "banning" guns.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:03:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
This might be a good opportunity to mount some pressure on Congress to intervene.

"We're in the middle of the worst economic crisis in generations and the military is eliminating a dependable profit source.  These materials that are sold also allow the ammunition industry to supply law enforcement with affordable bulk ammunition and the advanced ammunition used by elite law enforcement and military special forces."

Play their cards against them...  "This is gov't waste and it will hurt cops and troops."


I can play too.....  Government officials for the environment needs to know that this a huge waste of energy.  There will obviously always be a demand for ammunition.  Scraping once fired brass that already has a large energy input to manufacture wastes a RECYCLABLE product that requires zero extra CARBON EMISSIONS to REUSE.  Forcing ammo manufactures to use new production brass will require so much extra FOSSIL FUELS that it could contribute to GLOBAL WARMING.

Key liberal attention grabbing words in bold.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:05:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I would bet that this change in policy is coming from the Obama adminstration. Many in Congress are leery of banning guns, so to accomplish the same goal, they will stop the flow of once fired brass to reloaders, thus pushing the price of ammo even higher. Next we will see a exective order banning the importation of foreign ammo, causing prices to skyrocket even further, not to mention an even worse shortage. Then an ammo tax.  

The result is, owning and shooting guns will be so expensive, few will be able to afford it.

No good will come of this.



Our only hope would be mounting a constitutional challenge equating those actions with "taxing ink enough to run the newspapers out of business" which is just as illegal as directly shutting down the newspapers....
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:07:14 PM EDT
[#18]
I scrounge all the brass that I can.  

This administration will find backdoor ways to skirt the constittution to forward their agenda.

The goal to disarm the civilian populace has been inching forward for decades.  Once that goal succeeds, and it will, this nation will fail to exist.  they are more than half way there..  Banning certain weapons, rendering petty crimes to be prohibiting offenses, media propoganda, its all nothing but incrementalism.  

This, if holds to be true, is a huge dent in the gun/shooting communty.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:07:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would bet that this change in policy is coming from the Obama adminstration. Many in Congress are leery of banning guns, so to accomplish the same goal, they will stop the flow of once fired brass to reloaders, thus pushing the price of ammo even higher. Next we will see a exective order banning the importation of foreign ammo, causing prices to skyrocket even further, not to mention an even worse shortage. Then an ammo tax.  

The result is, owning and shooting guns will be so expensive, few will be able to afford it.

No good will come of this.


Go after the ammo - not the guns.

Fudds won't complain that much if their 5-10 rounds/year cost $1 per and you avoid the costly (politically) battle of "banning" guns.


Or more, what a wonderful way to ban guns.  Make the ammo unobtainium.  You can have all the guns you want but 20rds wont go far.  I have always said the easiest way to ban guns without stepping on the 2nd amndment is to make them useless, by making ammo to expensive to buy.

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:10:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would bet that this change in policy is coming from the Obama adminstration. Many in Congress are leery of banning guns, so to accomplish the same goal, they will stop the flow of once fired brass to reloaders, thus pushing the price of ammo even higher. Next we will see a exective order banning the importation of foreign ammo, causing prices to skyrocket even further, not to mention an even worse shortage. Then an ammo tax.  

The result is, owning and shooting guns will be so expensive, few will be able to afford it.

No good will come of this.


Go after the ammo - not the guns.

Fudds won't complain that much if their 5-10 rounds/year cost $1 per and you avoid the costly (politically) battle of "banning" guns.


part of heller blocked the route of jacking prices up to a level that prohibited peoples rights.  it was considered a ban under that ruling and unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:10:45 PM EDT
[#21]
I'll tell you what, it's going to suck bad enough for .223 shooters...

but I'm really glad I didn't buy that .50BMG now.

I could write this off to dumbass government business-as-usual, but I REALLY don't have a good feeling about this...
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:12:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Well that both sucks and blows at the same time
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:12:30 PM EDT
[#23]
I picked up 2k pieces this morning at the police range.  And I ordered 10k off of a vendor 3 days ago.  Wonder if I will get it, or get my check back
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:13:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...





Me and you are basically thinking the same thing. Why couldn't the brass be melted down and (with the use of the appropriate machinery) be reformed into another usable case? What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:15:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:16:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...





Me and you are basically thinking the same thing. Why couldn't the brass be melted down and (with the use of the appropriate machinery) be reformed into another usable case? What am I missing here?


Pretty much it removes a large supplier of cheap re loadable brass off the market.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:16:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...





Me and you are basically thinking the same thing. Why couldn't the brass be melted down and (with the use of the appropriate machinery) be reformed into another usable case? What am I missing here?


I'm gonna say that it will cost you the same as buying any of the new manufacture brass that's already out there.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:20:55 PM EDT
[#28]
I wonder when the current auctions are going to be updated?

So far, they still say mutilation not required.

Hmm, this is going to be a problem. I wonder who can put pressure onto DLA to reverse this call?

TR
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:22:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Why isn't the NRA all over this?? I donate good money to make sure they are on top of things!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:24:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...





Me and you are basically thinking the same thing. Why couldn't the brass be melted down and (with the use of the appropriate machinery) be reformed into another usable case? What am I missing here?


Pretty much it removes a large supplier of cheap re loadable brass off the market.




Yeah, I already understand that. However, my question pertained to the possibility of taking the scrapped ammo cases, melting them down and reforming them into "new" brass cases. Yes, it would be costly but it could be done couldn't it? It would just take the appropriate machinery and technical knowledge (not to mention the capitol $$$$ investments) to get it done.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:24:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Question: is there opportunity in this crap?

As in, remanufacturing the scrap into viable cases again? (I know nothing of the metallurgy so please nobody laugh too hard at my expense if this is impossible )

Obviously it would raise prices - and sucks to boot - but it was a thought...





Me and you are basically thinking the same thing. Why couldn't the brass be melted down and (with the use of the appropriate machinery) be reformed into another usable case? What am I missing here?


IBK_J

It takes about 7 steps or so to make a brass case. 3 of those steps involve a wash in a sulphuric acid bath after a drawing and anneal has occurred.

Think of the fun time you will have getting all that approved by the various .gov regulators.

Not to mention the capital expense that it would take to set a production line up to go from brass scrap to rolls of it to send through the first punching machine and on from there.

TR
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:27:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Spoke to my usual source for brass.  Can't sell, waiting to find out if he has to destroy what he already has.

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 12:41:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This might be a good opportunity to mount some pressure on Congress to intervene.

"We're in the middle of the worst economic crisis in generations and the military is eliminating a dependable profit source.  These materials that are sold also allow the ammunition industry to supply law enforcement with affordable bulk ammunition and the advanced ammunition used by elite law enforcement and military special forces."

Play their cards against them...  "This is gov't waste and it will hurt cops and troops."


I can play too.....  Government officials for the environment needs to know that this a huge waste of energy.  There will obviously always be a demand for ammunition.  Scraping once fired brass that already has a large energy input to manufacture wastes a RECYCLABLE product that requires zero extra CARBON EMISSIONS to REUSE.  Forcing ammo manufactures to use new production brass will require so much extra FOSSIL FUELS that it could contribute to GLOBAL WARMING.

Key liberal attention grabbing words in bold.


BINGO.  You got the idea.  Show them the downfalls of poor weapon retention in a brawl.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:29:51 PM EDT
[#34]
So who all is writing letters?  calling Congress, and the NRA????  I've called my congress critters!  Jim Demints office is aware of it and is on the case!  Its time to raise hell!  Literally!  If it takes going down to washington and sitting in front of these peoples desk until they make this change thats what we need to do!  This isn't funny, it isn't right, and it is just wrong!
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:44:13 PM EDT
[#35]
OK...OK.......UPDATE.......UPDATE......UPDATE.........POSSIBLE GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

Eric said it might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.

Anyway, I thought I would give you this information as soon as I could.   Sounds like GREAT NEWS TO ME!!!     We need to stay on this, though. I will get you the NRA-ILA phone number so you can call them next week if you want.

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:46:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeah... there are several of you that owe thanegrooms a big apology. He was reporting something you didn't want to hear, but you showed him your @$$.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:48:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Like our government doesn't have enough on its' plate already, they have to fuck around with once fired small arms brass!!!  They will be losing a shit-ton of revenue because the stuff will be marketable only to recyclers.  Adding cost to mash the stuff up in the process.  Christ almighty, if this shit goes down... I don't know what to say other than this licks balls

mfn
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:48:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
OK...OK.......UPDATE.......UPDATE......UPDATE.........POSSIBLE GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

Eric said if might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.

Anyway, I thought I would give you this information as soon as I could.   Sounds like GREAT NEWS TO ME!!!     We need to stay on this, though. I will get you the NRA-ILA phone number so you can call them next week if you want.



I'm crossing my fingers but not holding my breath

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:50:30 PM EDT
[#39]
The phone number for the NRA Institute For Legislative Action is 1-800-392-8683.  Call them up next week and get an update on this subject!!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:53:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
OK...OK.......UPDATE.......UPDATE......UPDATE.........POSSIBLE GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

Eric said it might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.

Anyway, I thought I would give you this information as soon as I could.   Sounds like GREAT NEWS TO ME!!!     We need to stay on this, though. I will get you the NRA-ILA phone number so you can call them next week if you want.



Thank God for the NRA.

Link Posted: 3/13/2009 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Can't someone just make aluminum cased ammo like the Blazer stuff? Or can it not handle rifle pressures?

I've got enough aluminum cans to make a shit load!
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:02:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Probably not, but I'm diggin' your screen name....  (see my title under screen name )
<<––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Quoted:
Can't someone just make aluminum cased ammo like the Blazer stuff? Or can it not handle rifle pressures?

I've got enough aluminum cans to make a shit load!


Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#43]
tag
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:07:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Huh.  There is actually a process for getting rid of this stuff?  The NG armories used to let me police the brass and keep it after their range time.


Ohh yes.

At the ASP you have to turn in all packaging, bandoleers, links and brass for the amount of ammo you took out.

They weigh the brass, and if you are not within a certain percentage of what you took out, back to the range to police up more you go.


Yup, and if that isn't enough, when we went out to Fort Drum to do our NETT training on the M1117 ASV, we had to then police up the damned impact area for the expended 40mm training grenades. I was not too happy to be going into a friggin impact area and seeing mortar fins and the like sticking out of the ground while picking up grenades...
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:09:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Can't someone just make aluminum cased ammo like the Blazer stuff? Or can it not handle rifle pressures?

I've got enough aluminum cans to make a shit load!


Too bad PCA never got it right, with their polymer cased ammo.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:14:24 PM EDT
[#46]
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:16:31 PM EDT
[#47]
I might of skipped over it n 5 pages, but read the front page of GA ARMS web site

http://georgia-arms.com/
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:36:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
OK...OK.......UPDATE.......UPDATE......UPDATE.........POSSIBLE GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

Eric said it might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.

Anyway, I thought I would give you this information as soon as I could.   Sounds like GREAT NEWS TO ME!!!     We need to stay on this, though. I will get you the NRA-ILA phone number so you can call them next week if you want.



Ok, I'm looking for some corroboration on this. No offense but I'm not holding my breath until I get someone to vouch for this story (but I am hoping its true).
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:43:03 PM EDT
[#49]




Quoted:



Yeah, I already understand that. However, my question pertained to the possibility of taking the scrapped ammo cases, melting them down and reforming them into "new" brass cases. Yes, it would be costly but it could be done couldn't it? It would just take the appropriate machinery and technical knowledge (not to mention the capitol $$$$ investments) to get it done.




You make it sounds so easy.



1. Where to get the massive capital to undertake this investment? We're in the middle of a "credit crisis" here

2. Given the political winds surrounding shooting sports, would you like to investment 20 million of your money in a privately owned ammo plant?

3. Might as well just buy brand new brass from LC, Winchester, PPU.



The whole point of once fired brass is that it's CHEAP.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 2:43:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
OK...OK.......UPDATE.......UPDATE......UPDATE.........POSSIBLE GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called the NRA-ILA (INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION). I spoke with a guy named Eric and he put me on hold for a few minutes till he could get the latest info on this subject.

After returning to the phone he gave me a bunch of info. The NRA is definitely aware of the problem and have heard from some reloaded ammo companies and individuals. Eric rattled off all the DOD agencies invlolved and apparently this may have been "somewhat of a mistake" The ranking DOD agency has heard our concerns and condsiders them VALID!!

Right now, the word is from DOD to the NRA that they hope to have a WAIVER put into place within a two or three weeks which will CORRECT this situation and return once fired brass, .50 caliber and below to the sales policies previously used!!!

Eric said it might be helpful to call our Congressmen just in case and make them aware of the impact on the DOD budget, police training, and inidividual rights.

Anyway, I thought I would give you this information as soon as I could.   Sounds like GREAT NEWS TO ME!!!     We need to stay on this, though. I will get you the NRA-ILA phone number so you can call them next week if you want.



Awesome.
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