User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 8:13:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position While I agree with you, many people chose not to. That's why we have all these liberal denominations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 8:18:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position You don't know with certainty that you are right any more than they do. Do you believe in a god who would punish people for eternity for not believing the correct thing about genesis? If not, why not just let them believe as they do and find out who, if any, was right when you die? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 9:18:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have your interpretation. They have theirs. You don't know with certainty that you are right any more than they do. Do you believe in a god who would punish people for eternity for not believing the correct thing about genesis? If not, why not just let them believe as they do and find out who, if any, was right when you die? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position You don't know with certainty that you are right any more than they do. Do you believe in a god who would punish people for eternity for not believing the correct thing about genesis? If not, why not just let them believe as they do and find out who, if any, was right when you die? Either the entire word of God is true or it's not. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 9:41:06 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either the entire word of God is true or it's not. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position You don't know with certainty that you are right any more than they do. Do you believe in a god who would punish people for eternity for not believing the correct thing about genesis? If not, why not just let them believe as they do and find out who, if any, was right when you die? Either the entire word of God is true or it's not. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:00:55 AM EDT
[#5]
What if we were created to evolve by design?
Aren't engineers working on AI and other machines that can learn and evolve? Is real now. And our technology is far from light a candle to the human body, let alone it's mind and what lies beyond. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:07:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you.
I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:12:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you. I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:12:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position If you believe that the bible is so literal then next time you get a severe infection feel free to go to church to pray instead of going to the doctor. Not to make fun of your belief but there are lots of religions with lots of books and stories. These stories were written by real men, passed down verbally generation after generation before being written down. Those stories became exagerated and glorified during that time so why do you take the final written version as the literal truth vs an earlier version. Read up on the dead sea scrolls and the history of the bible... Answer the old question...so God made the earth in 6 days and o the 7th he rested... So who are we to say what a day to God is? A day to him could be 500 millions years to us... Religion and science can co-exist...Didn't Einstein say that the more he discovered in his theories the more that he believed that there was a creator? Even the study of DNA points to possibility that all humans are descended from a single female (Eve?) who lived 1000's of years ago. I admit that I'm not a very religious person but I believe you can a person a faith without taking everything literally. If you take the Bible literally then Abraham sacrificed Isaac at God's behest....so you are saying you would sacrifice your son if God asked you to do it today? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:19:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, I misread it. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you.
I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:24:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you believe that the bible is so literal then next time you get a severe infection feel free to go to church to pray instead of going to the doctor. Not to make fun of your belief but there are lots of religions with lots of books and stories. These stories were written by real men, passed down verbally generation after generation before being written down. Those stories became exagerated and glorified during that time so why do you take the final written version as the literal truth vs an earlier version. Read up on the dead sea scrolls and the history of the bible... Answer the old question...so God made the earth in 6 days and o the 7th he rested... So who are we to say what a day to God is? A day to him could be 500 millions years to us... Religion and science can co-exist...Didn't Einstein say that the more he discovered in his theories the more that he believed that there was a creator? Even the study of DNA points to possibility that all humans are descended from a single female (Eve?) who lived 1000's of years ago. I admit that I'm not a very religious person but I believe you can a person a faith without taking everything literally. If you take the Bible literally then Abraham sacrificed Isaac at God's behest....so you are saying you would sacrifice your son if God asked you to do it today? Where exactly does it say to not seek medical attention in the bible? See my other post about literal days. So if I can't take everything literally then, I can just make it up as I go along? Awesome. No accountability other than what I decide. If you know the story of Abraham, you know he didn't sacrifice Isaac. It was a test from God, and a sacrifice was substituted (think God's own Son as the substitute) What was Abraham's big thing back then? A son, an heir. So after God gave him his son through Sarah this was the most important worldly thing that Abraham could have. God tested Abraham to see if he was willing to give up the most important thing to him for the sake of God. And he passes the test |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:34:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Probably the majority of Christians do not believe the Bible to be literally true every word. They taught us evolution in Catholic school.
there's a lot besides evolution you have to, I don't know, kind of discount for a literal intepretation. I'm not religious but if it turns out some parable was maybe inserted in the Bible long after the events portrayed because there is a story about camels when there were no camels, I don't think it changes Christ's message. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:46:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you. I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't Are you even open to the possibility that your interpretation of the bible isn't 100% correct, that there are some parts that you are mistaken about and some other christian has correct? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 10:52:38 AM EDT
[#13]
I've told a story here before about how a friend and I were standing next to my pick up truck one night when a dog charged out of the dark at us without warning. I lept into the back of the truck, my friend drew his .32 pistol and stepped between me and the dog to protect me.
If it turns out someone finds a video that shows that it was really a .380 or we were next to his truck does my faulty recollection change the fact with only moments to act my friend decided to put himself between me and that dog? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 11:46:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've told a story here before about how a friend and I were standing next to my pick up truck one night when a dog charged out of the dark at us without warning. I lept into the back of the truck, my friend drew his .32 pistol and stepped between me and the dog to protect me. If it turns out someone finds a video that shows that it was really a .380 or we were next to his truck does my faulty recollection change the fact with only moments to act my friend decided to put himself between me and that dog? Perhaps a better analogy would be is it "lying" to teach high school students about the force of gravity, only to reveal to the few of them who go on to college in a science field that relativity says that there is actually no such thing as a gravitational force between objects, rather, it is just curved space time? Does it take away from the high school student's ability to calculate the orbits of objects around the earth or the trajectory of projectiles? No. Rather, you are just giving them the information that they need and are able to comprehend given their level of knowledge. If they go on to learn more, well, then you can get more detailed when they are at that level. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 12:27:20 PM EDT
[#15]
That's great when you are teaching theorem. But we are talking about absolutes & faith.
Either God is absolute and the truth or he isn't. (I am the Way the Truth and the Life) You are delving into relativism, and by that, one can just pick and choose what is truth. Great for moral relativists. That's how liberals justify murder of the innocent (abortion) as well as Hitler justified extermination of the mentally ill and severely handicapped (as doing them a favor, after all they were the 'living dead') |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 1:18:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you.
I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't I'm offering to you that the best of both worlds can live together. The bible is not the word of God it is a collection of stories written by man. I'm not rejecting God. I think the universe is his greatest masterpiece. One that we do not have the ability to completely comprehend. I do believe that we were "created" with a moral code (as-in all babies are innocent and good) but we get corrupted the world/evil.. And just as the Bible is a creation of man so is the church. And the church is one of the most evil/corrupt institutions in the history of man... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 2:20:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm offering to you that the best of both worlds can live together. The bible is not the word of God it is a collection of stories written by man. I'm not rejecting God. I think the universe is his greatest masterpiece. One that we do not have the ability to completely comprehend. I do believe that we were "created" with a moral code (as-in all babies are innocent and good) but we get corrupted the world/evil.. And just as the Bible is a creation of man so is the church. And the church is one of the most evil/corrupt institutions in the history of man... Relativism It's the word of man, much like the Grimm fairy tales are words of man. Sounds like half the posters in GD When Jesus spoke, his many references to the OT were of "The word of God" . As he is God, he would know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 4:11:13 PM EDT
[#18]
My take is that the Bible is the Word of God, not a scientific textbook. If it were then we Christians should shudder every time scientists discover something that goes against what our textbook says because then maybe it's not infallible after all. This rigid ultra-literal reading of the Bible is an extremely new phenomenon (past 1-200 years).
The creation account in the Bible tells us that God made the Universe and Mankind. The exact details of how God created everything is interesting to some, but is irrelevant to the story God's creation and redemption of Mankind. I don't get too hung up on evolution the science. I do get really annoyed when atheists blend evolution with secular humanist philosophy to make their own creation account. I think this is why a lot of Christians reject evolution outright because atheists like to use it as a stick to beat us with, when evolution the strict science doesn't preclude the existence of a creator at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 4:19:32 PM EDT
[#19]
So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content?
edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/27/2015 5:37:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Some observations. I do not believe the Bible is the word of God but testifies TO the Word of God. Did Moses get some things incorrect? Not suggesting he did or didn't.
Also why can't Evolution and Christianity both be correct? I have heard teaching on something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I have heard is said there are two words used here. One means to create from nothing and the next one is recreate. Some believe there was something here, destroyed and then recreated again. Some suggest a pre Adam flood where everything was destroyed. There was a time when Lucifer, Angel of Light, ruled all the Angels....correct. He was the Anointed Cherab. Before he was cast out as Satan. This certainly had to be prior to Adam when something existed on earth. Besides don't we have enough fossil record to prove something existed prior to Adam's time? Many, many years prior. Millions? Just something to think about anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#21]
The Bible is not a science textbook, and those who take it absolutely literally are failing to see that the story is intended to place God as the Creator, which was unheard of when it was written.
Read the creation literally, and you have to explain how "days" were measured when the night and day weren't divided until day 4. There is so much more to the story, and I'm convinced that those who hold to strict literal interpretation are imposing their own restraints on God rather than humbly listening. I now stand ready to be labeled a Romanist heathen destined for hellfire... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 2:13:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Men wrote the bible and it's been retranslated so many times.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 2:28:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Men wrote the bible and it's been retranslated so many times. Written by men inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. Scripture has survived shockingly intact, in fact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 2:33:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Just like the USA couldn't be directly defeated from the outside, but by a long range plan to change it from within, I believe a lot of the questioning about the Bible is Satan causing doubt through the use of mostly well meaning men. He knows the scriptures as well as anybody and what better way to deceive men then make them doubt certain things that are clearly written. Things like an early rapture while others are left behind but supposedly if they get right with God they get a second chance. Imho, that is totally wrong but it gradually became doctrine in some churches and could lead to someone losing their salvation thinking when the rapture happens they will then get it together. Another is this possibility that evolution is just God's intelligent design. The Bible doesn't say that but now we have some who are confused with another plausible well meaning but wrong doctrine. Satan is all about winning and deception is his specialty. ymmv
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 3:29:07 PM EDT
[#25]
There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 4:45:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 4:56:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm offering to you that the best of both worlds can live together. The bible is not the word of God it is a collection of stories written by man. I'm not rejecting God. I think the universe is his greatest masterpiece. One that we do not have the ability to completely comprehend. I do believe that we were "created" with a moral code (as-in all babies are innocent and good) but we get corrupted the world/evil.. And just as the Bible is a creation of man so is the church. And the church is one of the most evil/corrupt institutions in the history of man... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:Apparently not, because your thread is talking about someone who believes in god and yet doesn't believe the same thing about genesis as you.
I didn't say 'Don't believe in God'. I said don't believe God. As in you think God is only partly right, or deliberately giving you part truths & part lies. However, realize that this is just your opinion of what god is saying and why. Other people have equally valid opinions of what god is saying and why, that don't require god to lie. "My interpretation is definitely correct and all others are wrong" is a pretty bold thing to say. Then how does one interpret Christ's death and resurrection Was it 3 days? Was it 300 million years ? You see the problem here. Either the bible is the literal word of God or it isn't I'm offering to you that the best of both worlds can live together. The bible is not the word of God it is a collection of stories written by man. I'm not rejecting God. I think the universe is his greatest masterpiece. One that we do not have the ability to completely comprehend. I do believe that we were "created" with a moral code (as-in all babies are innocent and good) but we get corrupted the world/evil.. And just as the Bible is a creation of man so is the church. And the church is one of the most evil/corrupt institutions in the history of man... The bible was not created by man. The Bible also contradicts your born innocent theory. Which in fact is one if not THE reason Jesus became man. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 5:02:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Let me add that while I don't think that believing in evolution will send someone to hell, usually that is not the only thing they disagree with the Bible on, and some of their other opinions could send them there.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 5:28:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 5:30:08 PM EDT
[#30]
As for the six days, turns out it's likely both Old Earth and Young Earth are both right, and both wrong. Something to consider (from here).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 5:33:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 8:19:14 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a older guy whom I work with who is Jewish..and practicing, not just in name. He doesn't know what those books are.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 8:42:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's great when you are teaching theorem. But we are talking about absolutes & faith. Either God is absolute and the truth or he isn't. (I am the Way the Truth and the Life) You are delving into relativism, and by that, one can just pick and choose what is truth. Great for moral relativists. That's how liberals justify murder of the innocent (abortion) as well as Hitler justified extermination of the mentally ill and severely handicapped (as doing them a favor, after all they were the 'living dead') I really don't think so. Any god that could create a universe is going to be smart enough to realize 99% of people, even in the world today, don't understand these concepts, and that laying these out in a book about salvation is going to end up confusing people with unnecessary details. I'm no longer a believer, obviously. But when I was I was humble enough not to try to put god in a box, and catch him in a technicality, stating that I know what he can do and what he can't possibly do. You are talking your flawed and corrupted human understanding of god and trying to dictate what is possible and what is impossible for such a being to do. Sorry, but if such a being exits, it isn't going to be held to the logical deductions that you arrived at by reading a book. If god can have a morally justifiable reason to kill the first born in Egypt after he himself hardened pharaoh's heart, can he not have a morally justifiable reason to lay out genesis as a fable, rather than blowing everyone's mind laying out mathematical models that are far more complicated than string theory? I am not delving into moral relativism at all. You think that I am, because of your limited view of god, morality, the bible, and reality. Nothing wrong with you having this view, but I think its a little bit much to assume your view is 100% correct, as clearly many people, christian or otherwise, don't agree with your assessment of how you think things must be. You have your views, and no way to know if they are any more accurate than someone else's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/28/2015 8:58:42 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm a Christian and I don't put God in any box. He is sovereign and I don't stand a chance at understanding Him, except what He allows. No box here. He does what He desires.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 12:04:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you believe we are in the pre-millennium? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture. Define "Millenium". Big M vs. little m... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 3:31:59 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 6:36:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Luther moved the mentioned books to the end of the Bible and said they were worth reading, but not divinely inspired. They were still between the covers. The Council of Trent then was called and the RCC there Cannonized these books ( after Luther said they were not inspired) they also said if you believed in Sola Scriptura, salvation by faith alone, with no works , that you were anathema. Luther's Bible, the Geneva Bible , and the KJV all contained them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 8:12:14 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Define "Millenium". Big M vs. little m... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture. Define "Millenium". Big M vs. little m... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 8:16:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So there were no changes made by Luther from the version of the Bible from the Council of Trent? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. The Council of Trent was in response to Luther and the other reformers. BTW, the CoT was from 1545 to 1563; Luther died in 1546. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 9:58:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: From an earlier thread today (in GD) Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution. Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory. As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written. I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin, was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written. I also believe that creation happened as written. If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us? Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder? Either it's all true or it's not. I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take that position If the creation story is a metaphor for the way God created the universe and (eventually) life on Earth, then it is still true. It's just not a literally true description of what happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/29/2015 1:51:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either the entire word of God is true or it's not. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God. So, do you believe that the Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist? That Peter was the rock on which Jesus built his Church? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 5:20:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Council of Trent was in response to Luther and the other reformers. BTW, the CoT was from 1545 to 1563; Luther died in 1546. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. Except, of course, that the Council of Trent did not establish the Canon. It simply confirmed it. Again. The Bible Canon was established in the 400's, and Luther and Co. Simply decided to change it for their own purposes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 5:22:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think "premillenialism rapture" means what you think it means. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture. Define "Millenium". Big M vs. little m... If you mean the sort of thing found in the "Left Behind" series, then no, I do t believe it. It's not Scriptural, and it didn't even exist until the late 1800's. It's a farce. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 5:23:23 PM EDT
[#44]
No church established the Cannon. God did that. Man just put it between the covers.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 5:25:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No church established the Cannon. God did that. Man just put it between the covers. The Catholic Church, founded by Christ Himself, defined the Canon, guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. Facts is facts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 5:39:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Now I would say the catholic church recognized the books that were divinely inspired and put them between the covers.
Zaphod, good to see you back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 7:05:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except, of course, that the Council of Trent did not establish the Canon. It simply confirmed it. Again. The Bible Canon was established in the 400's, and Luther and Co. Simply decided to change it for their own purposes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So the Bible is literally true, but there are different versions and the Protestants chopped out a whole section during the Reformation so now there are, what, three different Bibles with different content? edit I guess more accurately the Protestants removed whole sections from the Old Testament Lots of fail here. May want to research what you were taught. Those books were there till the 1870s. Except, of course, that the Council of Trent did not establish the Canon. It simply confirmed it. Again. The Bible Canon was established in the 400's, and Luther and Co. Simply decided to change it for their own purposes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 7:06:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you mean the sort of thing found in the "Left Behind" series, then no, I do t believe it. It's not Scriptural, and it didn't even exist until the late 1800's. It's a farce. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is no premillennialism rapture in Scripture. Define "Millenium". Big M vs. little m... If you mean the sort of thing found in the "Left Behind" series, then no, I do t believe it. It's not Scriptural, and it didn't even exist until the late 1800's. It's a farce. Didn't you claim to be an evangelical before you submitted to the "Vicar of Christ?" |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 7:10:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Catholic Church, founded by Christ Himself, defined the Canon, guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. Facts is facts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No church established the Cannon. God did that. Man just put it between the covers. The Catholic Church, founded by Christ Himself, defined the Canon, guided and protected by the Holy Spirit. Facts is facts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/30/2015 7:21:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I would say the catholic church recognized the books that were divinely inspired and put them between the covers. Zaphod, good to see you back. Let's be clear, it was the catholic (as in universal) Church that recognized the books of the New Testament but it wasn't the Roman Catholic Church as you know it. St. Anthanasius of Alexandria was the first human to identify the books. At the time the Roman Church was just one of the churches that made up the Orthodox Church, it split with the other member churches in the Great Schism of 1054 at which time the two churches became what we know today as the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. We Orthodox also still use the Septuagint the version of the Old Testament used at the time of Christ and early Church as opposed to the cut down version used by the Roman Church and even more cut down version used by most Protestant churches. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
