I'm curious how many people differentiate between firearm manipulation training and tactical training.

I can crawl into my ass hole, and pull the hole in after me, now that is cover and concealment all in one.

I know that your average interior door or wall in a house isn't cover... So I guess that makes me more tacticool than IDPA morons.

Cover is good.  

Drywall is not cover.  A floor is not cover from below.  A ceiling is not cover from above.  Doors are not cover.    Siding + wall stud + insulation + drywall + paint does not equal cover.   Brick veneer and cast stones are not cover.  A garage door is not cover.   Concrete blocks may or may not be cover.  But if they are, they usually work just once.  

Bullets go through car windows and car doors, so they are not cover.  The bed of your truck is not cover.  

Boy....   that's a good question!!  

The more the better

I know that a 6 inch deep depression in the ground works in when there is nothing but sand around.

I know 55grn 193, will slice through 1/4 in steel railroad tracks like warm butter at 35 yards

Learning to use terrain features (including the ground) as cover is often missed. And yes differentiating the two types of training is a good question. Firearm manipulation training increases personal skills with gun handling, but actual tactical training is far more than just a square range or running a gun fast.

Found this great article
What is cover in your home

its a must read.  Just discovered it last night.

FBI Analyst great read
DISCLAIMER: GRAPHIC IMAGES

Insane. Spark notes: 17 (non vital) hits from .40 HP & .223 TAP and police still had to wrestle him into handcuffs. Shot placement.

That's one thing that's always irritated me.

Weapons manipulations classes aren't "tactical" classes. Wheels go on the car, but the wheels also aren't the car.

As dumb and gay as it sounds but playing paint ball a few times will help one develop the mindset to use cover and concealment.  The downside is it doesn't really beat it into your head what will stop a real bullet but it does get the brain working to get you to work at not being seen and hit.


ETA-  I can say I've only played paintball once in my life.  I've only shot IPSC a couple times.  I've done FATS and simunitions a few times too.  None of them is the end all be all but they're all somewhat useful in different ways.


ETA2,  one more reason I like 20 round AR magazines.  If real incoming is headed my way I can get that much lower while firing back.

You don't have to shoot the carbine vertically if you have to be THAT low. Just saying.

Paintball doesn't ingrain use of cover any better than training carbine manipulations on a square range using established courses of fire or barricades for movement. Paintballs do not penetrate even heavy cardboard at many distances, and if you are so close that the paintball has the velocity to penetrate cardboard, that's not really an accurate representation of using cover in a gunfight.

What paintball and airsoft do, and to a greater degree Simunitions and other similar marker training rounds, is show the folly of standing still with a pain response.... But it still isn't better training than current square range COF's to seek cover vs concealment, because its still not appropriate cover.

Be careful with the FBI link, as there was a version erroneously and widely disseminated that had very incorrect information in it. I do not have access to the bad one to compare, but make sure you find out which one that is before basing anything off it.

I learnt at JRTC if you get behind a camo net it blocks laser beams...

There is really NO cover inside a modern home, even with the careful use of "tactical appliances" such as the fridge or Washer / Dryer... if confronted by a rifle armed intruder.

Hopefully that fact stays in the knowledge of the good guys and that "Homie Da' Criminal" thinks that out of sight means can't be shot.

Hide behind it when fired upon.

Cover is more than something solid you hide behind. Cover is theory where you, your environment, the enemy, ammo, body armor, time and object density all come into play in the exact same moment. Its a constantly changing formula in a gunfight. There was a really good article about cover recently but I cant seem to find it.

Knowing what will stop bullets is valuable information.  Cinder block walls won't stop most rounds, my favorite cover has always been Mom... Mother Earth is more than a hippy magazine.

The biggest  problem with hugging the ground is line of sight, your horizon gets higher and you become further dislocated from your environment.  So what's the best high cover?  I like those big light posts, they're round and most rounds don't bite into them as much as a flat surface would allow except at close distances.  They also don't provide a lot of purchase when using them to gain stability for shooting.

Larger and older buildings with solid material construction are awesome for giving windows and doors that provide both cover and concealment.  I'm talking about third-world qalats made from century-old dried mud and clay that can even shrug off Mk19 fire.

The biggest problem there is that more often than not, one finds themselves firing into such structures rather than from them.

what is one to do?  I deal with it and compromise with the corner of a cinder block wall where there is more material fora bullet to chew through, engine blocks, large trees are another favorite of mine as well as tall rocks or rock outcroppings.

long story short (too late) know what will stop bullets and use it when you can, the taller the better.

You won't find many places that will teach actual tactics in open-enrollment courses. I have been thinking for sometime about putting together an actual tactics course for CCW holders that would use scenario based training, force on force, etc. You'll find a few places that will give you a taste, but not many. VTAC street fighter, some TFTT courses and a few others here and there cover a few things (fighting around vehicles, some small unit movement and communication), but for the most part what you see out there are marksmanship and weapon handling classes.

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You don't have to shoot the carbine vertically if you have to be THAT low. Just saying.

Paintball doesn't ingrain use of cover any better than training carbine manipulations on a square range using established courses of fire or barricades for movement. Paintballs do not penetrate even heavy cardboard at many distances, and if you are so close that the paintball has the velocity to penetrate cardboard, that's not really an accurate representation of using cover in a gunfight.

What paintball and airsoft do, and to a greater degree Simunitions and other similar marker training rounds, is show the folly of standing still with a pain response.... But it still isn't better training than current square range COF's to seek cover vs concealment, because its still not appropriate cover.

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Quoted:
As dumb and gay as it sounds but playing paint ball a few times will help one develop the mindset to use cover and concealment.  The downside is it doesn't really beat it into your head what will stop a real bullet but it does get the brain working to get you to work at not being seen and hit.


ETA-  I can say I've only played paintball once in my life.  I've only shot IPSC a couple times.  I've done FATS and simunitions a few times too.  None of them is the end all be all but they're all somewhat useful in different ways.


ETA2,  one more reason I like 20 round AR magazines.  If real incoming is headed my way I can get that much lower while firing back.

You don't have to shoot the carbine vertically if you have to be THAT low. Just saying.

Paintball doesn't ingrain use of cover any better than training carbine manipulations on a square range using established courses of fire or barricades for movement. Paintballs do not penetrate even heavy cardboard at many distances, and if you are so close that the paintball has the velocity to penetrate cardboard, that's not really an accurate representation of using cover in a gunfight.

What paintball and airsoft do, and to a greater degree Simunitions and other similar marker training rounds, is show the folly of standing still with a pain response.... But it still isn't better training than current square range COF's to seek cover vs concealment, because its still not appropriate cover.

I agree..

If there is a need to shoot prone - turn the rifle...  That 10 round difference - between a 30 round mag and a 20 - might ALL the difference indeed....

30-06   Armor Piercing, M2               Turning cover into concealment for over 100 years.

This is your operating environment. What is your next course of action?

I would say that anything that has the "potential" to provide some degree of protection (deflect a bullet) is cover.  There can be "good" cover, as well as "bad/limited" cover.  However, if it offers even a slight chance of saving my life it is better than nothing.  The more fire I return, the better my crappy cover gets.  If I can put an aluminum chair between me and my attacker while I put rounds down range it's better than standing in the open.  

I think people confuse the term "cover" with "sanctuary" - in that they need a concrete, steel reinforced bunker in order for it to be defined as cover.  Cover is not a bank vault, it's something that gives me an advantage or increase in survivability, no matter how slight.  

Just my .02.

You never truly know if it's cover until you take fire.

I just have to say this is one of the coolest things I have seen and read on the internet this week. God bless American and long live the Republic.

Cover is anything you can get behind that will stop a bullet.
Concealment is what prevents someone from having sight of you. It often is NOT cover, but may be.

I have noticed in many of the classes that have cropped up over the last 10 years or so that the importance of gaining real cover is not adequately stressed.

there is pretty much nothing these days that can provide adequate cover from guns, especially rifles. our cars are 90% plastic now, walls, doors, everything is made to be cheap and replaceable so your best bet, i think, is to shoot on the move. it amazes me how many people actually train them selves to stand still (like a target) and shoot.

Get the manipulation down first, then build on it with shooting, then shooting and moving.

IDPA and IPSC/USPSA BOTH will form VERY dangerous habits if you stick to their rules.