Hello all,





I recently, based on the feedback of members here on ARFCOM, decided to invest in airsoft as a supplement to live-fire training.





I thought I would give some feedback to the site.  Since my main carry is a Glock 19 (Gen 2 with smooth front strap) my choice was





simplified as Glocks are some of the most copied airsoft guns around.  I choose the KJW OD Glock 23 because it was $100.00 and, of course,





the G19 and G23 are identical in size.  I added an additional magazine, propane adapter kit, and 3500 biodegradeable BBs.  When I add the propane





cylinder I bought locally, my total initial investment is $184.57.  I bought from the airsplat website.  I did my first shooting with the





setup today.  I began working at 3 yards, doing accuracy work from the draw (FIST Inc. ultrathin kydex IWB).  I was using the target pasters





from old Shoot-n-See targets as my bullseye.  





What I learned.





1.  Follow through.  When I first began shooting,(in my life, not today) I was surprised at the fact that small finger movements can affect the POI





even as the bullet is leaving the barrel.  The lower muzzle velocity of airsoft guns makes this even more pronounced.  If I did something wrong, I





knew it instantly.





2.  Proper grip.  I mentioned that carry a Gen-2 G19.  I always told myself that I didn't need someone else to tell me where to put my fingers.  I





will have to verify with live fire, but apparently I was wrong.  My airsoft is a Gen-3 with finger grooves.  During presentation drills,  I





found myself to be far more consistent than I normally am with my live gun.  I'll have to dig into it further.





3.  Maintenance.  If you follow my route, be aware that your maintenance schedule will be more intense than with the real thing.  The gas charge





in my magazines lasted ~45 shots.  The pistol needed to be lubricated after about 120 shots for best function.





4.  Limits.  Recoil is obviously nowhere near as severe as a live pistol.  I believe that this will be helpful for me in terms of training position





shooting, draw to the first shot, weak-hand and single-hand shooting, and magazine changes.  It will have to be supplemented with live fire for





recoil management, and training at distance.





I hope this is helpful.  



 
 

Funny no one commented on your thread. I was just wondering if this same process you just described, would be a good supplement to live fire training. After all not many of us have the financial means, or ability to go to the range and shoot weekly under real life situations to become better at defending others as well as ourselves. How is this working out for you? Do you or have you seen any improvement?

Ammunition prices have me considering this possibility for training as well.

Another alternative is to use a laser training system.  It has the added upside of no additional maintenance and using the exact weapon you wish to train on.  Mine has helped me tremendously to understand exactly what it is I am doing wrong.  It won't obviously correct problems associated with recoil (shooting low left) but it does help a lot with transitions and proper trigger control as well as the sight picture.

I can't speak highly enough of it.  But don't mean to threadjack here.  I am definitely interested in your experiences with airsoft.  If ammo and guns are unavailable I might as well pick up another hobby.

Why not just buy a .22 kit for your G19 or will range fees too much.

Unfortunately, I haven't done any live fire testing to verify myself yet.  Holidays, work, family, excuses, excuses.  When I get a chance I will report back and let you know.  Also I almost forgot about this since no one posted for so long, so I apologize for the delay in my response.

 

No offense taken at all!  What system do you use.

 

That is a goal as well, but I have to drive or pay range fees for any live fire.  I can shoot airsoft in my back yard.  

 

I started using an airsoft pistol to practice with a few years ago.  It definitely helped me keep sharp because I do not have a range available to practice shooting on the move. If you have unlimited ammo and the ability to do a variety of drills at home with a real firearm, I would do that.  For pretty much everyone else, airsoft can can be a good addition.

Airsoft has a place, but this isn't it. You will end up reinforcing bad recoil management techniques very quickly. Regardless of how you are practicing, good or bad, you are reinforcing something. With airsoft there is no noise, recoil, and ballistics do not properly replicate live rounds.

If you just want to work on grip and trigger control. Do dry fire and send the $200 on ammo . If you want to do force on force and can't afford Simunitions, then buy airsoft.

Now if you are setting up courses of fire in your basement and are using it for practicing reloads, stance, movement,  and so on. Go for it.  Just keep in mind that there is no substitute for send real rounds down range.  

Just my 2pence for what it is worth.

Your points are all understood and well taken.  But within a few yards, it is close enough to the real thing to help with verification of sight

 

I've found just about all aspects of my shooting have improved with the addition of airsoft.  There is less recoil, and you can't shoot long ranges, but at 7 yards, drawing and firing, engaging multiple targets, or shooting and moving, it is of great benefit.  More than standing there slow firing at the range. Sure, in an ideal world I could go to the range every day and shoot for pennies while being able to do any drill I want.  I don't live in that world.  The range doesn't allow drawing and firing, or moving.  The range isn't open 24 hours, and it charges.  Being able to practice the techniques that you learn is critical to keep them.  Adding airsoft to live fire has definitely helped me.

As has been posted a million times before, I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

Travis Haley on Airsoft

There are no downsides you have listed here that don't apply equally as well to a .22 pistol or .22 conversion for his Glock.  The only major issue I've seen that's specific to Airsoft is that you can quickly get used to the very light force required to rack the slide/operate the slide release.  That can be dealt with by always forcing yourself to use more force than required.

Dry fire, while useful, is easy to get "used to", and you can end up with a flinch that only shows up when you have something live in the pipe.  The only thing that fixed this for me was lots of Airsoft practice.  Obviously, any training technique needs to be backed up with range time, but Airsoft can make the range time you DO have more productive.

I just went this same route OP.

Not so much due to ammo considerations (I reload) but because there are a lot of situations I want to train for indoors, in a vehicle and in my home that I wouldn't feel safe or comfortable doing with a real firearm.

That fact that airsoft companies create such an exacting replica of my handgun is fantastic.

I found a BB m&p locally that I use in the garage. Helps with drawing and first shot also with shooting a moving.

I've grown up around airsoft so it actually helped me choose the glock 17 as my first real firearm since I was very familiar with the grip. Now I have modified my airsoft version with a heavy trigger to match the feel of the real firearm and use it for practicing sight alignment and trigger control. I did not consider the dwell time before but it makes sense the way you describe it.

Also planning to setup some basic barriers for movement and scaled targets to simulate 15 yd. I still spend as much time as I can at the range and CCW events. But the airsoft aspects always seemed like a good way to add more training regardless of schedule or lifestyle.

I did irsoft every Sunday for 2 yrs with a very large and active group. It can be a very effective training  tool if you get life like equipment to what you real steel tools would be. Just offhand i say it can sharpen your reaction time, mag changes if you use midcap mags and windups, coms if you use radios like we did, pulling secondary weapons. Also understanding how camo works and what works best for your area. Here in central fl i found multicam is the best.

if you haven't found from your research yet you can use propane gas on airsoft gas pistols. The green gas for the pistols can get quite expensive however if you're shooting outside you can use propane. On eBay you can get little nozzel adapters for the Coleman style camping stove propane bottlesso that $3 propane can will last about 10 times the $10 green gas can.

Who can find .22lr ammo right now?

3500 rounds of airsoft bb's are 12-15 bucks. If you use propane we'll say 5 dollars a cannister. so we'll say $25.00 for 3500 rounds of training....how much is .22 again? No one is advocating the replacement of live fire just use of airsoft as a supplement to that training.

Wouldn't airsoft be a good way to train force on force? You know, replicate the dynamics of the real world. In that regard I could see it having benefits over live fire training on static targets. This is my main interest in airsoft.

For dorce on force airsoft can work. But if you have access to Simunitions go that route instead. Pain is a training tool and Sim hits can be very painful, but with no real lasting effects.

I was at comic con Edmonton and they had a booth selling these

I bought the CZ75 (my personal favored handgun, which I own)

with the exception that the CO2 mag sticks out further it feels and handles just like a real CZ, double action trigger is out to lunch, but the single action is perfect, I almost cant tell the difference

I am kind of wishing I had pulled the trigger on teh C7 they had too, but it was all in OD, the one I had was black like God intended

Picked up a KWA single stack and busted the gas system in a weekend.  Any recommendations for a widebody replacement?

Sorry, no.  A dedicated airsoft forum would be the best place I guess.  If it was new, is it not returnable to the seller for repair?

 

I did the airsoft thing for a few years and did use high quality guns thati do feel helped  in training of weapons handling and tactics. And thats better than nothing!

Airsoft is great for scenario based raining and other force on Force, I have even talked with Kyle Lamb and he said that Delta would supplement their training with airsoft from time to time.

Cleaned up the attic a bit and set up a trap to shoot at! Grabbed a spring m&p and have been practicing drawing and trigger control.



I'm going to copy Travis Haley's set up soon

For as much as I mocked airsoft, it seems cheaper than a SIRT gun.

For the price of a SIRT you could get yourself a couple pistols or a really nasty rifle. Going from shooting my buddy's 10/22 to my brothers airsoft ar-15 there's not much difference in fun factor. With a pistol you don't lose any functionality save for chamber checks. Some rifles even use the bolt release. Unlike a SIRT you have a real projectile that you can shoot at targets.

I wasn't really that aware of airsoft, however, two things recently have sparked my interest.  1, I have a friend who trains for three gun during the winter with airsoft, I was skeptical at first but it really looks like you could work on your fundamentals and muscle memory with this method.  The second is that my nephew came over for Christmas and showed me his airsoft gun....well actually at first I thought it was my gun IT LOOKS THE EXACT SAME.  PRI gasbusting charging handle, dd MK18 rail, working light, magpul forward hand grip, ACC flashider EVERYTHING.  What shocked me most was that it ran off of gas and when the mag runs dry the bolt locks back, you put in a new mag and press the mag release and your good to go.  The damn thing even has some kick to it.  I'm seriously thinking about getting one to work on my fundamentals like quick mag changes and quick target acquisition.

We on the east coast get some MSOB guys that come through and play airsoft. I like my kit to mimick the real steel I have in the closet. But the force on force is alright except the little 8 year olds running around. I enjoy the hell out of it. And if your looking to get into it, look up redwolf airsoft, then airsoft megastore.

Also if you get into it realize that more moving parts, the more shit breaks; and that study your batteries. I didnt and fried a couple of good guns.

Where do you find quality (not Walmart) airsoft to train with?

I ordered online after doing some research and finding the right pistol.

 

Where online would be nice to know.

Airsplat if they are still around.