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Posted: 9/19/2011 8:40:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks about right.
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Posted: 9/19/2011 9:15:44 PM EDT
[#2]
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines!
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Posted: 9/19/2011 9:39:49 PM EDT
[#3]
I also remember seeing a video of a cop describing another concern he had about the serpa holsters. If you grab the gun and give it a good yank, it will pop the screws and belt retention system right off.
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Posted: 9/19/2011 9:41:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section? 
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Posted: 9/19/2011 9:46:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I have seen Safariland holsters (rotating hood) fail when exposed to dirt and mud. If it is made by human hands, it can fail.
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Posted: 9/19/2011 10:00:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, dirt outside. Who would have thought.
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Posted: 9/20/2011 10:52:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section?
Totally un-serious. I am a member at SN's forum. |
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Posted: 9/20/2011 6:42:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section?
Totally un-serious. I am a member at SN's forum. Craig is a freaking bad-ass. |
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Posted: 9/21/2011 10:23:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section?
Totally un-serious. I am a member at SN's forum. Craig is a freaking bad-ass. I was looking forward to taking ECQC in November, but alas, money is tight. |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:51:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section?
Totally un-serious. I am a member at SN's forum. Craig is a freaking bad-ass. I was looking forward to taking ECQC in November, but alas, money is tight. Sell a testicle. Worth it––––––––> 
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Posted: 9/30/2011 11:12:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Meh... Ive been using them in the sandbox for years. I spend a lot of time outside the wire at work (if there is even a wire) and this doesn't scare me at all. There are so many Serpas in military service that this would have been an issue years ago. Serpa hate is like direct impingement hate to me. Just so much noise.
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Posted: 10/4/2011 11:50:35 PM EDT
[#12]
I had my Safariland 6004 lock up just as tight after spending some time on the ground in a class one time. It can happen to anything.
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Posted: 10/5/2011 4:45:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I had my Safariland 6004 lock up just as tight after spending some time on the ground in a class one time. It can happen to anything. What was the nature of the lock up? I had been testing holsters for my department which has several thousand members. I wasn't able to get the Safariland to lock up, unlike the SERPA which routinely locked up with snow and mud. I know in the newest generation Safariland the portion that locks into the ejection port has changed to inhibit debris from getting behind the ejection port lock over the earlier generation which has more of a "tail" on the lower end of the lock. In some ways I guess it's kind of moot, due to the Safariland being chosen. The newest generation SERPAs were just too easy to pull off the shank, defeat the lock system and very hard to retain during an attempted gun grab. However, I'd still like to know how this failure occurred so it can be addressed in training. Thanks! |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 6:51:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Correct me if I am wrong here but did anyone else loose count of how many times everyone in this video was flagged by the barrel?
That is a live weapon right? At first I though it was a trainer (bluegun) but it isn't is it? Was it a live weapon? Or am I wrong? |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 9:24:18 AM EDT
[#15]
That is a Glock 17 Simunition gun. It fires a chalk filled plastic projectile, and is NOT capable of firing anything else.
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Posted: 10/5/2011 9:49:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
That is a Glock 17 Simunition gun. It fires a chalk filled plastic projectile, and is NOT capable of firing anything else. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuqmfLN38c3s8k7BY9oJIoL_xk5gQV7IcjyXVhtBjuJm_nGREAbXVwFMhMng Oh. Makes a little more sense.... even so though. Most guys had their Eye Pro off. Not trying to start anything. It just struck me as weird being in a training situation that they would handle the weapon like that with everyone standing around in a circle. |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 4:29:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had my Safariland 6004 lock up just as tight after spending some time on the ground in a class one time. It can happen to anything. What was the nature of the lock up? I had been testing holsters for my department which has several thousand members. I wasn't able to get the Safariland to lock up, unlike the SERPA which routinely locked up with snow and mud. I know in the newest generation Safariland the portion that locks into the ejection port has changed to inhibit debris from getting behind the ejection port lock over the earlier generation which has more of a "tail" on the lower end of the lock. In some ways I guess it's kind of moot, due to the Safariland being chosen. The newest generation SERPAs were just too easy to pull off the shank, defeat the lock system and very hard to retain during an attempted gun grab. However, I'd still like to know how this failure occurred so it can be addressed in training. Thanks! I was at a class with Jerry Jones of Op Spec Training, formerly Gray Guns. I was using my duty rig with my G17, and we were doing a lot of shooting from different positions on the ground. Prone on your back, side, back, other side, sit, kneel, stand, and reverse it. We were on a range that was course sand and it was very lightly raining that day. After the training evolution, we holstered up and I closed the hood on my 6004. When I went to draw the next time, the outer pivot of the hood was completely locked up. The inner could be pressed down and would begin to move forward, but the outer pivot was completely frozen with dirt and sand. There really wasn't all the much there, but it was enough to get worked in there, making it impossible to draw. I had to use a can of Remoil to hose out the crap in the pivot just to get the pistol out. I'm not saying the 6004 is a bad holster. I had one bad experience with it in a fairly tough environment. OTOH, I have four friends and coworkers who have used Serpas in Iraq and Afghanistan, and none of them have have ever even heard of one locking up, let alone experienced it on multiple deployments. |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 5:59:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks for your input Hawgleg44. I'll see if I can replicate what you discovered.
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Posted: 10/5/2011 7:25:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Thanks for your input Hawgleg44. I'll see if I can replicate what you discovered. I've been issued a drop leg 6004 at work for the past 3 years and have used it in every training class I've taken on my own since then, plus the training we do at work. This was the only time I've ever had a problem with it locking up, but I was still concerned. Especially since it's a secondary weapon, and if I need it, I REALLY need it. I was at a class with Colt Defense a few years back on a very sandy range with high winds. There was very little ground work that day, but the inside of the hood mechanism was getting very gritty and sluggish by the end of the day and I had to clean it out thoroughly and lube it with dry lube afterwards. But it didn't lock up that time. The outside of the hood mechanism was not effected at that class. Like I said, it's not a bad holster. I just had one isolated bad experience with it. |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 8:03:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
That is a Glock 17 Simunition gun. It fires a chalk filled plastic projectile, and is NOT capable of firing anything else. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuqmfLN38c3s8k7BY9oJIoL_xk5gQV7IcjyXVhtBjuJm_nGREAbXVwFMhMng Sure about that? The ones I used were filled with a paste-type paint. They do leave star shaped scabs on bare skin. 
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Posted: 10/6/2011 7:39:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That is a Glock 17 Simunition gun. It fires a chalk filled plastic projectile, and is NOT capable of firing anything else. http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuqmfLN38c3s8k7BY9oJIoL_xk5gQV7IcjyXVhtBjuJm_nGREAbXVwFMhMng Sure about that? The ones I used were filled with a paste-type paint. They do leave star shaped scabs on bare skin.
Chalk was not the correct word to use, not sure what the hell I was drinkin at the time
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Posted: 10/18/2011 6:52:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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What do those two guys know about anything? They don't even have carbines! Ahhh, are you serious? Ever check out the training section?
Totally un-serious. I am a member at SN's forum. Craig is a freaking bad-ass. That merely reinforces what I already knew. |
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Posted: 10/18/2011 6:58:10 PM EDT
[#23]
So if I don't roll on the ground like a beached walrus I should be fine with a SERPA right?
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Posted: 10/19/2011 10:52:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
So if I don't roll on the ground like a beached walrus I should be fine with a SERPA right? Exactly. I use Serpas all the time outside of work, even with videos like this floating around. Hell, the Serpa even sometimes holds a .40 Glock that everybody knows blows up in your hands every other shot you fire! Haven't you read that, too? It must be true! 
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Posted: 10/25/2011 3:27:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Any holster with a retention mechanism has the capacity to lock up....but Serpas are particularly vulnerable to the phenomenon due to their shit design and shit materials. Safariland makes holsters based on the input of law enforcement, military, and SF/SOF professionals whose lives depend on their product.
The Serpa was designed by a dude who barely knows which end of the fucking gun the bullet comes out of. |
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Posted: 10/25/2011 4:26:54 AM EDT
[#26]
I live in Ohio where we don't have sand and rocks laying on the ground. We have dirt and grass so I think I should be fine.
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Posted: 10/25/2011 6:23:58 AM EDT
[#27]
You guys have snow in Ohio don't you? When I was testing holsters for my department the SERPA locked up 7 out of 10 times with snow. The process was with hand pressure (not the body weight of a police officer with an assailant on them) put the holster in the snow and rotate it 90 degrees. The SERPA did not like snow at all.
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Posted: 11/9/2011 7:35:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Choose your equipment for the operating environment. Do not expect to exceed design parameters and have good results. Goes for pretty much everything, not just holsters.
I've been carrying my CQC for a couple years now. Haven't had a problem with it, although I've never tried to fill it with sand/ice/concrete/Gorilla glue and tried to draw the pistol. Ironically, I switched to the CQC because the snap on my old leather hostler got bent while engaged and I needed to cut the strap to unholster my pistol.  |
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Posted: 11/9/2011 7:49:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: I live in Ohio where we don't have sand and rocks laying on the ground. We have dirt and grass so I think I should be fine. |
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Posted: 11/9/2011 1:41:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Any holster with a retention mechanism has the capacity to lock up....but Serpas are particularly vulnerable to the phenomenon due to their shit design and shit materials. Safariland makes holsters based on the input of law enforcement, military, and SF/SOF professionals whose lives depend on their product. The Serpa was designed by a dude who barely knows which end of the fucking gun the bullet comes out of. That sums up the issue pretty well. |
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Posted: 11/9/2011 3:46:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
So if I don't roll on the ground like a beached walrus I should be fine with a SERPA right? Pretty easy to end up on the ground in a fight. Take Craig's class. You'll see, |
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Posted: 11/10/2011 4:39:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I live in Ohio where we don't have sand and rocks laying on the ground. We have dirt and grass so I think I should be fine. Mmmkkkk. |
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Posted: 11/10/2011 9:19:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Any holster with a retention mechanism has the capacity to lock up....but Serpas are particularly vulnerable to the phenomenon due to their shit design and shit materials. Safariland makes holsters based on the input of law enforcement, military, and SF/SOF professionals whose lives depend on their product. The Serpa was designed by a dude who barely knows which end of the fucking gun the bullet comes out of. I don't know if the owner of Blackhawk designed the Serpa, but if he did, your statement couldn't be farther from the truth. |
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Posted: 11/10/2011 10:44:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I don't know if the owner of Blackhawk designed the Serpa, He didn't. but if he did, your statement couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't know anything about the owner of BH. All I know is the quality of stuff his company puts out...which is objectively, poor. Even if he was a high speed ninja at one time of his life, that doesn't mean he makes good stuff. Mark LaRue wasn't an SF ninja...but he designed good stuff and builds it well, and as a result people who depend on their equipment to survive buy the shit out of his stuff. Equipment can and should be judged objectively on merit. |
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Posted: 11/10/2011 12:10:29 PM EDT
[#35]
I just "retired" (threw in the recycling bin on trash day) a Serpa for a Glock. The retention mechanism started to wear and I had to push it farther with more pressure than I should have had to, compared to the Serpas I have for my 1911's and M&P's, which are both much newer. The Glock Serpa has seen use in many classes, training on my own and daily carry. I don't keep track of the number of draws, but I would say without any doubt it's over 10,000.
OTOH, since I was issued a Safariland 6004 at work, I've been using that in most of the classes I've taken and train with it a lot outside of work. I don't think I've hit the 10,000 mark yet, but I'd estimate I'm getting close. Comparing the two, the Serpa is definately worn out, and the Safariland, although externally it doesn't look it, is mechanically as good as it was when I took it out of the package. I completely agree that the quality of Safariland's products is much higher than the Serpa. I'm going to the shop to look at Safariland holsters for CCW use tomorrow. Setting the Serpa issue aside for a minute, I do like some of Blackhawk's products. I use one of their quad drop leg mag pouches at work and I've never had a problem with it. The material has held up well and I have not even had a snap break on them. They have improved their products over the years, too. The previous Blackhawk mag pouch I used was simple, yet durable. The newer one I have has padding added to the back so it's that much more comfortable against your leg. |
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Posted: 11/13/2011 10:26:52 AM EDT
[#36]
From another forum, with the OP's permission
More SERPA fail....
I saw my former partner @ work wearing a SERPA yesterday after I finally convinced him to ditch it in favor of a Safariland ALS. I saw red. *I then ripped his pistol clean off of his belt with one sharp tug. (*His pistol was cleared/unloaded first and he said that if I could rip it off of his belt, he wouldnt wear it ever gain....I dont think he will be wearing this one anymore!) He was seated, and I grabbed it with my right hand while standing/facing him. I gave it one sharp tug towards me and the SERPA holster body snapped in-half. This is the 3rd SERPA I have managed to destroy doing this demo, but this is the first one that split in-half in this way. The two others sheared at the belt attachment/mounting screw interface. Sure ANY piece of gear will break, but these things break too easily and too frequently at various parts of the holster to be considered a serious holster. My mission is to do this demo to every officer at my department to convince them to ditch their SLURPA's. http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s91/HeadHunter_album/Heaters/destroyedserpa.jpg |
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Posted: 11/22/2011 7:22:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Ironic that Blackhawk was founded from an ex-NSW who wanted to build products that would be reliable under these conditions. Capitalism...wins again
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Posted: 12/3/2011 3:20:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Ironic that Blackhawk was founded from an ex-NSW who wanted to build products that would be reliable under these conditions. Capitalism...wins again Not when you consider that the majority of Blackhawk's gear is simply designs from some of the top names in the industry (Eagle, LBT, etc) that are then stitched up by overseas labor with substandard materials. Blackhawk makes some horrible gear. The "Sherpa" is no different. That photo is the first I have seen with a holster breaking in half but I have probably seen a half dozen shear off of the paddle/belt attachment. |
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Posted: 12/3/2011 3:37:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Blackhawk makes some horrible gear. The "Sherpa" is no different. That photo is the first I have seen with a holster breaking in half but I have probably seen a half dozen shear off of the paddle/belt attachment. Yes, that's the first one that I saw break like that. I've "dynamically removed" 3 SERPAs from their shank during my department's holster testing with out much effort at all. It's very easy to do. It's a shame that Blackhawk! is putting out such inferior products. They appear to have a good outward appearance as a business. I guess their motto, "Honor. As a way of life" should be take with a grain of salt. It's been 4 months since I've made them aware of the deficiencies of our tested holsters. I see they are still selling them with no changes to the way the holster is mounted to the shank, nor have I heard of any recalls. There is no honor in keeping holsters like that on the hips of people who's lives depend on them and just may be fighting for the retention of their weapon some day. Blackhawk! would have to do some serious revamping of their holster line for me to ever use one of their holsters. Honor? Blackhawk! should do a gut check and start looking for their honor and do something about their holsters. |
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Posted: 12/4/2011 6:27:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ironic that Blackhawk was founded from an ex-NSW who wanted to build products that would be reliable under these conditions. Capitalism...wins again Not when you consider that the majority of Blackhawk's gear is simply designs from some of the top names in the industry (Eagle, LBT, etc) that are then stitched up by overseas labor with substandard materials. Blackhawk makes some horrible gear. The "Sherpa" is no different. That photo is the first I have seen with a holster breaking in half but I have probably seen a half dozen shear off of the paddle/belt attachment. I know what you mean. I was just referring to the story of how Blackhawk was founded in the first place. |
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Posted: 1/9/2012 4:18:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if I don't roll on the ground like a beached walrus I should be fine with a SERPA right? Pretty easy to end up on the ground in a fight. Take Craig's class. You'll see, This! |
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Posted: 1/27/2012 11:13:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Well put....
Quoted:
Blackhawk makes some horrible gear. The "Sherpa" is no different. That photo is the first I have seen with a holster breaking in half but I have probably seen a half dozen shear off of the paddle/belt attachment. Yes, that's the first one that I saw break like that. I've "dynamically removed" 3 SERPAs from their shank during my department's holster testing with out much effort at all. It's very easy to do. It's a shame that Blackhawk! is putting out such inferior products. They appear to have a good outward appearance as a business. I guess their motto, "Honor. As a way of life" should be take with a grain of salt. It's been 4 months since I've made them aware of the deficiencies of our tested holsters. I see they are still selling them with no changes to the way the holster is mounted to the shank, nor have I heard of any recalls. There is no honor in keeping holsters like that on the hips of people who's lives depend on them and just may be fighting for the retention of their weapon some day. Blackhawk! would have to do some serious revamping of their holster line for me to ever use one of their holsters. Honor? Blackhawk! should do a gut check and start looking for their honor and do something about their holsters. |
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