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Posted: 4/5/2016 9:21:04 AM EDT
I can summarize this class by saying that calling it a knife class is a tremendous disservice- it's a class on violence that happens to focus on using knives, and in my opinion it should be the foundational training program for everyone.  This is the edged weapon version of ECQC, which I imagine to be much the same in that the contextual content is just as important as the weapon that gets used.  I plan to take it next year to find out.  

The thing that impressed me about Craig Douglas' class was the same thing that impressed me with his online tutorials 15 years ago- it addresses the entire incident from the approach to the assault.  Most self defense starts off with you standing in front of some guy who for no given reason wants to grab your wrist or punch you in the face.  This class starts you off with what the buildup to a criminal assault looks and feels like, and gives you the tools to head it off before he's within arm's reach looking to sucker punch you, and shows you what he looks like when he starts thinking about doing it.  

Much of the class is dedicated to stand up grappling and tying up limbs, two things that are important when criminals work in groups and carry weapons.  There is a short "show and tell" section dedicated to talking about actual knife design.  He seems careful to not give much in the way of advice on knife selection.  His own "Clinch Pick" design is religiously carried by some attendees.  He himself seldom mentions it, and seems to want to let class experience speak for itself.  There was not a single thing for sale in the class- no DVDs, no knives, and no undue mention of other classes.  There is no "advanced class", just basics to get better at, which he recommends achieving by getting together with other students.  

There are numerous times along the way where skills are "pressure tested" by putting on FIST helmets and beating each other in the face with training knives, and a final evolution of two guys trying to simultaneously beat on your face, and to be honest the rest of you too.  Most everyone seems to dread it.  Most everyone seems to feel empowered by it.  One student had never had any kind of training at all, and said he felt educated about what a bad situation looks like and what to do about it.  Others, including military members and a female police officer, got a sense of how little they knew and how much doesn't work when you get jumped in the real world.  

It is not a fun class in the conventional sense.  It makes you realize how much you never want to be in a knife fight, and how unlikely you are to ever get that $300 folding knife out of your pocket and open.  I'll close with my buddy's unofficial review of the class, which still makes me laugh days later- "My forehead hurts when I laugh and I dislocated my shoulder.  Would do again."





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Some quick recommendations for future students-

Try to do some endurance work in the gym beforehand- low weight high rep, go all day type training, especially back, shoulders, and arms.  These are long days full of hard work in high repetition.  Also train to handle about three minutes of very high output.  

Forearms take a serious beating.  One guy (wearing a Larue shirt ) had a stroke of genius and wore long sleeved spandex under his shirt on day two.  My forearms still, two days later, highly recommend that you do that.  


Link Posted: 4/6/2016 3:49:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Good review. Sounds like a class that may not be fun to take, but one that everyone NEEDS to take.

Out of curiosity, what is the recommendation if you cant carry a fixed blade knife concealed? I understand that most people would drop their folder while trying to dig it out of a pocket and employ it during a struggle, but in some states like mine it is illegal to conceal a fixed blade.
Link Posted: 4/6/2016 10:15:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Good review. Sounds like a class that may not be fun to take, but one that everyone NEEDS to take.

Out of curiosity, what is the recommendation if you cant carry a fixed blade knife concealed? I understand that most people would drop their folder while trying to dig it out of a pocket and employ it during a struggle, but in some states like mine it is illegal to conceal a fixed blade.
View Quote


I'm in that boat.   It was never explicitly stated, but here's my takeaway- if a folder is to be used for defense it has to be something stupid simple like waved and on a lanyard so you just yank up and a deployed knife pops out of your pocket.  

The reason I say that is once you're tangled up with someone, you have to be able to beat them with grappling if you want to deploy a weapon without taking some potentially lethal hits first.  In class we all had fixed blade trainers stuck prominently in our waistbands- unconcealed, up front, sticking right up in the air IPSC style, and getting to them was still difficult without getting beaten on or stabbed.  

I think that can probably be overcome with a lot of training.  If you can keep them at a distance with awareness and strikes (keeping in mind that you likely won't know they're actually hostile until they hit first), or you're a grappling god and can tie them up quickly and can manage to deploy a folder under stress, then you've got something viable.  

The real danger is thinking that knife training is sitting on the couch practicing opening your knife.  That's a pretty small part.  


Link Posted: 4/6/2016 7:47:19 PM EDT
[#3]
I took the gun class last fall, very physical.  Very glad I was not any older or in poorer condition that I was.  I plan to retake that class this coming fall and the knife one.  Will be older but in better condition.  MUCH BETTER that 'just another shooting' class.
Link Posted: 4/9/2016 1:48:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 4:40:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm in that boat.   It was never explicitly stated, but here's my takeaway- if a folder is to be used for defense it has to be something stupid simple like waved and on a lanyard so you just yank up and a deployed knife pops out of your pocket.  

The reason I say that is once you're tangled up with someone, you have to be able to beat them with grappling if you want to deploy a weapon without taking some potentially lethal hits first.  In class we all had fixed blade trainers stuck prominently in our waistbands- unconcealed, up front, sticking right up in the air IPSC style, and getting to them was still difficult without getting beaten on or stabbed.  

I think that can probably be overcome with a lot of training.  If you can keep them at a distance with awareness and strikes (keeping in mind that you likely won't know they're actually hostile until they hit first), or you're a grappling god and can tie them up quickly and can manage to deploy a folder under stress, then you've got something viable.  

The real danger is thinking that knife training is sitting on the couch practicing opening your knife.  That's a pretty small part.  


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good review. Sounds like a class that may not be fun to take, but one that everyone NEEDS to take.

Out of curiosity, what is the recommendation if you cant carry a fixed blade knife concealed? I understand that most people would drop their folder while trying to dig it out of a pocket and employ it during a struggle, but in some states like mine it is illegal to conceal a fixed blade.


I'm in that boat.   It was never explicitly stated, but here's my takeaway- if a folder is to be used for defense it has to be something stupid simple like waved and on a lanyard so you just yank up and a deployed knife pops out of your pocket.  

The reason I say that is once you're tangled up with someone, you have to be able to beat them with grappling if you want to deploy a weapon without taking some potentially lethal hits first.  In class we all had fixed blade trainers stuck prominently in our waistbands- unconcealed, up front, sticking right up in the air IPSC style, and getting to them was still difficult without getting beaten on or stabbed.  

I think that can probably be overcome with a lot of training.  If you can keep them at a distance with awareness and strikes (keeping in mind that you likely won't know they're actually hostile until they hit first), or you're a grappling god and can tie them up quickly and can manage to deploy a folder under stress, then you've got something viable.  

The real danger is thinking that knife training is sitting on the couch practicing opening your knife.  That's a pretty small part.  




Thanks for the reply. I carry a folder every day and hope I never have to use it, because if I do I know the chances of dropping it are much more likely than anything. Currently looking for some more physical training for this year.
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