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Posted: 7/24/2015 8:06:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Not here, no need to play toddler open, I already have the adult's version.
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Posted: 7/24/2015 1:22:38 PM EDT
[#2]
No. Stupid division.
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Posted: 7/24/2015 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#3]
It'd be nice to know exactly what the rules for the division are first.
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Posted: 7/24/2015 4:41:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It'd be nice to know exactly what the rules for the division are first. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 6:36:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Interesting. I thought you were talking about IDPA or some such. The last time I shot an IDPA match (first one in several years) there was some talk about a Carry Optics division there, too. Maybe USPSA decided to beat them to the punch.
I found it in the USPSA BOD meeting minutes (you will probably need to log in with your member number to read it). It sort of makes sense. The micro optics have gotten to the point where they are suitable for concealed carry. Although it makes me wonder a little. Didn't IPSC used to have a "Carry Optics" division? It was called Modified. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not here, no need to play toddler open, I already have the adult's version. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not here, no need to play toddler open, I already have the adult's version. Same here. I don't get to shoot enough matches that I've gotten bored with the Open blaster yet. 
Quoted:
It'd be nice to know exactly what the rules for the division are first. First guess would be that all of the production rules applied (minor, 10-rd., fit in the box, holster rules) other than allowing a red dot. The box would pretty well necessitate one of the small micro-dots. But that's just my guess. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 7:19:43 PM EDT
[#6]
I probably won't participate in it anytime soon but I'm not against it's existence.
Especially if people that are better than me in Production move to it 
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Posted: 7/26/2015 12:52:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Where was this six months ago when I was using a RMR G34 for duty use?
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Posted: 7/26/2015 12:52:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Where was this six months ago when I was using a RMR G34 for duty use?
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Posted: 7/26/2015 6:12:17 PM EDT
[#9]
I will play. I can compete in all divisions, this one too. I shot a match in the open division once with my Tanfo and a Fastfire II mounted to the slide. It was great.
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Posted: 7/26/2015 7:41:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where was this six months ago when I was using a RMR G34 for duty use? You didn't sell it did you?
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Posted: 7/26/2015 8:47:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You didn't sell it did you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Where was this six months ago when I was using a RMR G34 for duty use? You didn't sell it did you? Yup. They changed policy and we could only qualify with 3 guns, so I sold it to another team guy north of me. If I had to do it again I'd probably do a 19 instead of a 34. |
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Posted: 7/27/2015 8:08:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds.
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Posted: 7/27/2015 8:52:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds. Ban state, they're all ten rounds. Must be fun with a long mag. |
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Posted: 7/28/2015 10:46:45 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a G22 milled for a dot, I would like to use that, but not being "factory" is pretty hokey.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:45:20 AM EDT
[#15]
No Interest. It will probably be another division, like limited 10 or revolver, where one or two guys show up to compete at local matches.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 9:45:04 PM EDT
[#16]
We have a couple of guys that shoot the S&w m&p micro core (or whatever it is called) in open. It would actually benefit them.
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Posted: 7/30/2015 10:43:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:41:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then it's pretty much open without charging handles and comps. What's the point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds. Then it is just production with an optic, whats the point? |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then it is just production with an optic, whats the point? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds. Then it is just production with an optic, whats the point? I think that was the intended result. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 10:15:15 PM EDT
[#20]
I'd just as soon shoot open minor.
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Posted: 7/31/2015 12:00:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then it is just production with an optic, whats the point? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not if it has magazines restricted to 10 rounds. Then it is just production with an optic, whats the point? |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 2:10:38 PM EDT
[#22]
In addition, I think people in magazine ban states would like a division where they can shoot with an optic. Yeah, there's nothing technically stopping people from shooting open with 10-round magazines, but they wouldn't be competitive with 10-rounders when shooting out of state, and it would be annoying to have to mentally switch between 10-rounders and 20+ rounders depending on the match.
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Posted: 7/31/2015 2:45:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Does not bother those Canadians I've shot against in NY years ago. Must have higher mental powers to deal with the cold.
Is it true they set the weight limit low to keep the metal framed dot guns out? |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 2:58:16 PM EDT
[#24]
10 rounds, minor, 35 oz max. It is production with red dots but with an interesting weight limit.
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Posted: 7/31/2015 6:45:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In addition, I think people in magazine ban states would like a division where they can shoot with an optic. Yeah, there's nothing technically stopping people from shooting open with 10-round magazines, but they wouldn't be competitive with 10-rounders when shooting out of state, and it would be annoying to have to mentally switch between 10-rounders and 20+ rounders depending on the match. I don't see a reason to penalize the majority because some live in communist states. This is the same reason I rarely shoot IDPA, regular capacity mags are legal here and I plan to take advantage of them. I'll just shoot open minor if I decide to use optics. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 9:13:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't see a reason to penalize the majority because some live in communist states. This is the same reason I rarely shoot IDPA, regular capacity mags are legal here and I plan to take advantage of them. I'll just shoot open minor if I decide to use optics. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In addition, I think people in magazine ban states would like a division where they can shoot with an optic. Yeah, there's nothing technically stopping people from shooting open with 10-round magazines, but they wouldn't be competitive with 10-rounders when shooting out of state, and it would be annoying to have to mentally switch between 10-rounders and 20+ rounders depending on the match. I don't see a reason to penalize the majority because some live in communist states. This is the same reason I rarely shoot IDPA, regular capacity mags are legal here and I plan to take advantage of them. I'll just shoot open minor if I decide to use optics. Same concept as production, although it also makes it so .40 Major doesn't have a round disadvantage. |
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Posted: 8/1/2015 11:21:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a reason to penalize the majority because some live in communist states. This is the same reason I rarely shoot IDPA, regular capacity mags are legal here and I plan to take advantage of them. I'll just shoot open minor if I decide to use optics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In addition, I think people in magazine ban states would like a division where they can shoot with an optic. Yeah, there's nothing technically stopping people from shooting open with 10-round magazines, but they wouldn't be competitive with 10-rounders when shooting out of state, and it would be annoying to have to mentally switch between 10-rounders and 20+ rounders depending on the match. I don't see a reason to penalize the majority because some live in communist states. This is the same reason I rarely shoot IDPA, regular capacity mags are legal here and I plan to take advantage of them. I'll just shoot open minor if I decide to use optics. Is Production currently penalizing people who live in non-magazine-ban states? Should the 10-round mag cap rule in Production be removed? I mean, fuck those stupid Californians, am I right? I carry non-limited magazines too, but competition is not carry. Adding a mag cap to the rules requires more frequent magazine changes, which adds another level of skill into the competition, what with having to plan where your reloads occur and just the mechanics of performing the reload. I understand if you don't want to shoot Carry Optics, but the hatred of a new division that won't affect you if you choose not to shoot it is sort of confusing. |
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Posted: 8/1/2015 7:45:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Not confusing at all, I don't hate it, I just think it has stupid rules.
From what I'm reading at Enos and other places, I'm not nearly the only one that thinks so. Face the facts, it is a division cooked up by the BOD to keep Glock and S&W spending money in the sport. Maybe a good idea, but at least be honest about it. It really doesn't matter to me, I'll not be competing. What is confusing to me is why you give a crap what I think. Anyway, I'm done talking about it, enjoy "Welfare Optics". |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:45:29 PM EDT
[#29]
A) I have an M&P Core in 9mm already
B) Don't the new Pro Cores have ports, thus making them illegal for a production + dot division? C) They should have replaced L10 with this class. 10 rd mag limit for the ban state people to play, but a way to get optics involved and keept he 2011's at bay (price tag). I will probably move from production to this new class, only b/c it's new and exciting and I can. Will it stop me from continuing to save for an open gun? No, entirely different animals. |
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Posted: 8/6/2015 2:48:00 PM EDT
[#30]
This division was made because Glock, S&W, and Springfield basically told USPSA they weren't going to support the league on the same level they were in the past because essentially their guns aren't as competitive as the CZ's and Tanfoglio's. So since USPSA likes their money they made this new Carry Optic division with a 35oz weight limit thinking they would now be competitive since just about all the all steel guns can't make weight...
Now the Glock/S&W/XD guys are still pissed because they have figured out the CZ P-07 and P-09 are going to dominate the class due to the triggers being leaps and bounds better than any striker fired guns trigger could be. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#31]
I will absolutely try it out. I think it's a perfect way to 'stay in the game' in Production division as our eyes get older. And, realistically, small optics on defensive weapons is probably the way of the future. I'm on board.
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Posted: 8/11/2015 12:25:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This division was made because Glock, S&W, and Springfield basically told USPSA they weren't going to support the league on the same level they were in the past because essentially their guns aren't as competitive as the CZ's and Tanfoglio's. So since USPSA likes their money they made this new Carry Optic division with a 35oz weight limit thinking they would now be competitive since just about all the all steel guns can't make weight... Now the Glock/S&W/XD guys are still pissed because they have figured out the CZ P-07 and P-09 are going to dominate the class due to the triggers being leaps and bounds better than any striker fired guns trigger could be. Do they even make an RDS-ready P07? I thought the division said it had to be an unmodified slide? ETA: It will still sell guns. At the local matches I see 3-4x the M&P Pros and G34's than I do CZ's for production. I assume carry optics will be the same way. The top dogs may run whatever they want. |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 12:54:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they even make an RDS-ready P07? I thought the division said it had to be an unmodified slide? ETA: It will still sell guns. At the local matches I see 3-4x the M&P Pros and G34's than I do CZ's for production. I assume carry optics will be the same way. The top dogs may run whatever they want. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This division was made because Glock, S&W, and Springfield basically told USPSA they weren't going to support the league on the same level they were in the past because essentially their guns aren't as competitive as the CZ's and Tanfoglio's. So since USPSA likes their money they made this new Carry Optic division with a 35oz weight limit thinking they would now be competitive since just about all the all steel guns can't make weight... Now the Glock/S&W/XD guys are still pissed because they have figured out the CZ P-07 and P-09 are going to dominate the class due to the triggers being leaps and bounds better than any striker fired guns trigger could be. Do they even make an RDS-ready P07? I thought the division said it had to be an unmodified slide? ETA: It will still sell guns. At the local matches I see 3-4x the M&P Pros and G34's than I do CZ's for production. I assume carry optics will be the same way. The top dogs may run whatever they want. The actual rule says... "21.2b Milling of slide — only as required to insert optical sights A slide may be modified specifically for the purpose of installing optical sights, and for no other purpose." |
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Posted: 8/11/2015 4:31:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Good deal... doesn't take much convincing for me to buy more CZ products, but I think my Apex'd core will work well enough.
Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 8:46:08 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be asinine. The actual rule says... "21.2b Milling of slide — only as required to insert optical sights A slide may be modified specifically for the purpose of installing optical sights, and for no other purpose." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This division was made because Glock, S&W, and Springfield basically told USPSA they weren't going to support the league on the same level they were in the past because essentially their guns aren't as competitive as the CZ's and Tanfoglio's. So since USPSA likes their money they made this new Carry Optic division with a 35oz weight limit thinking they would now be competitive since just about all the all steel guns can't make weight... Now the Glock/S&W/XD guys are still pissed because they have figured out the CZ P-07 and P-09 are going to dominate the class due to the triggers being leaps and bounds better than any striker fired guns trigger could be. Do they even make an RDS-ready P07? I thought the division said it had to be an unmodified slide? ETA: It will still sell guns. At the local matches I see 3-4x the M&P Pros and G34's than I do CZ's for production. I assume carry optics will be the same way. The top dogs may run whatever they want. The actual rule says... "21.2b Milling of slide — only as required to insert optical sights A slide may be modified specifically for the purpose of installing optical sights, and for no other purpose." Correct, the slide can be milled if it's only for the purpose of mounting a red dot. I'll buy another one if I decide to get into this division. Mine got caught up in a weight loss program inside our HAAS VF-3. :D 
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Posted: 8/31/2015 8:38:48 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:44:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Yes. My 229 slide with an rmr milled in will be here Monday. Looking forward to it. It will also be my duty gun.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:03:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. My 229 slide with an rmr milled in will be here Monday. Looking forward to it. It will also be my duty gun. Didn't you already have a Sig with a red dot on it? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:09:27 PM EDT
[#39]
I did. A 226. When we traded them in last year I went with a 229 instead. Easier to carry off duty. Sold the 226. This will be the same sight/RMR set up essentially. Just on a 229 instead.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:00:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Stupid division. It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. 
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:03:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A) I have an M&P Core in 9mm already B) Don't the new Pro Cores have ports, thus making them illegal for a production + dot division? C) They should have replaced L10 with this class. 10 rd mag limit for the ban state people to play, but a way to get optics involved and keept he 2011's at bay (price tag). I will probably move from production to this new class, only b/c it's new and exciting and I can. Will it stop me from continuing to save for an open gun? No, entirely different animals. If it is like production the rules allow you to swap a non ported barrel in the gun and shoot. Barrel has to match the factory profile. Basically written so the porter Glock guys could shoot production. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:23:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No. Stupid division. It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. I like 10 rounds in production. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:24:20 PM EDT
[#43]
If Carry Optics survives the trial period, I'm going to shoot it with my production gun (iron sighted) and rape them all. Feelings will be hurt.
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:24:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like 10 rounds in production. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Stupid division. It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. I like 10 rounds in production. It is terrible, well out side of communist states, it is terrible. I want to shoot standard capacity mags in my pistol in competition. I despise the "Lowest Common Denominator" rules. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:41:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Carry Optics survives the trial period, I'm going to shoot it with my production gun (iron sighted) and rape them all. Feelings will be hurt. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is terrible, well out side of communist states, it is terrible. I want to shoot standard capacity mags in my pistol in competition. I despise the "Lowest Common Denominator" rules. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No. Stupid division. It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. I like 10 rounds in production. It is terrible, well out side of communist states, it is terrible. I want to shoot standard capacity mags in my pistol in competition. I despise the "Lowest Common Denominator" rules. Then lim minor is for you! |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 2:09:40 PM EDT
[#47]
S
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then lim minor is for you! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. Stupid division. It is retarded. Why not make a standard cap Production? I want a 17 round Production division other wise i am really not all that interested. I like 10 rounds in production. It is terrible, well out side of communist states, it is terrible. I want to shoot standard capacity mags in my pistol in competition. I despise the "Lowest Common Denominator" rules. Then lim minor is for you! I would rather see production have a 15 round limit. I understand Limtited Minor fits but it wouldn't be competitive at all. Production is one area I think IPSC did better than USPSA in a few ways. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 2:53:16 PM EDT
[#48]
I don't like the trigger requirements for IPSC. If they dropped that I could get behind those rules.
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Posted: 9/13/2015 3:50:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't like the trigger requirements for IPSC. If they dropped that I could get behind those rules. I don't like the barrel length limit either. No G34 in "production"? Dumb. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 4:23:19 PM EDT
[#50]
I didn't realize the 34 couldn't be used. Is that because it was introduced after they made the rules??
I just feel like their version is truer to the intent of the division. It seems ridiculous that you can buy a Glock put a 200$ trigger in it, put a aftermarket slide on it, and drop in a match grade barrel. Almost as bad as "stock car" racing |
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