Back ground:

I've been shooting USPSA Limited with a modified Glock 35. I just moved into B class. I'm churning out 40 maj on a 550b already.


I like the Glock, and shoot it and my other Glocks well, but I know I am at a disadvantage to the metal framed single action guns I'm competing against. So, I naturally want one.

2011s
I see the top shooters with custom 2011s. I can afford a custom gun, but I'm apprehensive about spending that much on 1 gun, even though I will shoot it more than all of my guns combined.

Is there enough advantage to a 6" gun vs a 5" gun? People who have them seem to like them, but I still see plenty of top shooters with 5" guns.

I've gotton to shoot another competitors 5" custom. I liked it alot, but I haven't been able to compare it to an Edge or 6" custom.

Aesthetics aside, what makes a custom gun better than an out of the box Edge? How does a competition ready Edge from Dawson, or someone else, fit in the picture?

Can anyone clarify 2011 mag tuning for me? From what I've gathered, the 140mm STI mags work fine but only hold 17 rounds. Tuned mags with base plates can hold 20. Is this correct?


Is the CZ Tactical sport worth considering? I've been unable to get my hands on one. I did get to shoot a CZ custom TS. Again I liked it alot, but price wise it's in the CRP Edge range.

How good are the regular CZ TS's? I like the price. I've heard the grip is enormous. I can handle a Glock 21 well, but it's almost too big for me.




What is your opinion on the reliability of these guns? I like Glocks because they tend to be reliable out of the box. I keep hearing stories about 2011s not running, but I see them run every month at the range. What about the CZ? My intuition is that it will be very reliable, since it's a factory gun.

I shoot C class limited, and run a Para.  It is an older Canadian gun, and has been flawless. Only issue is the slide stop notch is starting to peen after 15k rds.

But you did not ask about the P16, you probably know the STI may not be flawless, unless you buy one built out with tuned mags by a good smith.  Just about everyone I have shot with running a 2011 had issues with their new guns.  Then they got the mags figured out and they ran like a scalded ape.   Really great guns, I just shoot to many different games to get into that much $$ on one gun.  Damn mags are close to 100 each.

I love CZs and shot a guys TS 40, very nice gun and the grip was fine for me.

If I was doing it allover again I would prolly get the STI.

Thank you.

The Para is on my radar too. I've gotten to handle one of their double stack 45s. I know the Para in 40 would be an improvement over my G35.

Ya know, paras are supposed to be a crap shoot.   I must have been lucky, cause I started uspsa with a beat up P14 that had been owned by 2 different club guys who moved on to 2011s, then I put about 8k rds thru it.   It still shoots pretty well.     Wish I could tell you more about the CZ, I have run my 75b quite a bit in IDPA with great results.

If you can get one, go for Dawson STI Edge in 5 inch.  Shot limited and L10 in 40S&w.  STI mags and frames  load quicker than Para.  STI grip feels better in my hand, but that may be muscle memory.  Tried for years to make the Kimber BUL Hicap work, but the STI is just a better fit for me.

none of my mags are tunned, they can hold iirc 19 reloadable or 20 form the beep.

I have a factory edge where over the years I added a  aftec and a edbrown wide ambi. My edge will work with factory 180s just fine, but my reloads are longer.

I think a 6" fat free sight tracker is the current one to get.

iirc mags are daswon base pad a dawson follower and ismi spring. a lot use/used grams spring kits.

Good info, thank you

I have been looking into doing the same as well, flipping between the STI and a TS.



The TS is a large grip, also not a problem for me.  Some are doing a reduction on them and getting thin grips. Very reliable. Easy to put in a new barrel, etc...



I specifically have been asking around to all the 2011 shooters I know about this entire magazine business.  What I have been told is that they should run fine, as is, from the factory.  If a factory mag has an issue, STI replaces it.  Where people get into trouble is replacing the guts trying to get that 21st round in there, and the followers tilt etc... and that is where all the tuning comes in.  I know several that just put the pads on, and run them at 19 or 20, zero issues. Anyway, that is what I have been finding.



Then the DVC came out...  I still can't make up my mind.

Get a Dawson or Brazos, tuned up Edge.

Get the Brazos 4 pack of tuned mags. These are 20rd reloadable.

Load your .40 ammo at 1.80"-1.20" OAL.

Use a fast powder like Tightgroup or VV N320.

Use 180gr. bullets of your choice, I like the coated lead for Bayou, SNS or Blue Bullets.

Shoot and enjoy.

Make note of any details that you think you would like to change, example: Grip recontour or stippling. Trigger length and profile. Magwell profile, do you have big hands? Thumb safety, wide short, ambi?

Then make these changes on Edge.

Keep shooting and making the gun "yours".

Then, after several thousand rounds with the gun with the way you like it. Have a custom built to your specs, and keep the Edge as a back up.

YMMV

Good Luck!

A properly set up G35 is not handicapping you in Limited B.  See K.C. Eusebio, Rob Vogel and ARFs favorite- Tori Nonaka.  Save the money for ammo and wear that thing out practicing.

Hi cap 2011s are finicky and NEED tuning.  

Don't forget to consider the Tanfoglios.  They win a bunch too.

I used a CZ 75 TS 40 for uspsa limited.  Great gun.  The trigger was 1.75 lbs.   Mags were hard to come by.
A 2011 gives you the advantage of having lots of custom parts and mag available.

Good info, thanks everybody.



This is the most logical course of action. I do want to at least get my hands on a TS before I buy the CRP Edge.

I should probably start venturing out to the club matches that are 2~3 hrs away. Somebody is bound to have a TS.




If buying the new gun cut into my range time, I wouldn't be doing it. But I totally agree that the Indian is more important than the bow.

My plans to improve are:

Dry fire at home.
Live fire practice with a specific skill improving drill once/week. Not just blasting.
Shoot as many local matches as possible.
Get the best equipment, within reason.
Get private instruction from a local Master quarterly.
Take a class from a big name GM.
Read more.
And be open to other suggestions.

 
The gun is not the weak link in your shooting in B class, I promise.  IMO the gun is not a factor until one is well into GM territory, you've exhausted all the other gains available through actually becoming a better shooter, and you're talking about chasing the minutest gains imaginable.  




With that being said, if you can afford it and you think it may make you want to practice more, then go for it.






 

I agree with this. I shoot limited B class with a mostly stock glock 17 (it is stippled so I can't shoot production). There are lots of guys I shoot with that are B and C shooters using STI's and Tanfoglios that have not moved up in years. If you want one then get one, but don't use it as a crutch to say you can move up past B class with what you're shooting now.

My friend was flirting with M shooting his G35, finally went to a 2011.  He says now he finds it hard to believe he made it that far with a Glock.

 
Bob Vogel doesn't seem to need a 2011.

A true custom 2011, is better in every way.
I have owned , SVI, Brazos edge,   a  tanfoglio limited,and another sti eagle.
If you are serious about competing, stop playing around, and go full custom.My logic, is that if you have a pistol, you love, and are proud of, you will practice more.Practice, and training is what makes you better.
You may be able to do well with a para, a glock, tan, or even a cz, but it will be easier and more enjoyable with custom 2011.
I personally would recommend Limcat custom.Johnny lim will work with you, and build the pistol you want.If Mr lim does not agree with your choices, he will explain his reasoning, and help guide you.
I am so confident in Limcat, that i own 3 of his guns.I bought a Brazos edge as a back up for my limcat wildcat, and honestly, it is pretty ratty, and crappy in comparrison.On that note Brazos, was simply horrible to work with, and it was the worst buying experience of my life.
One final note, after shooting limcats for 4 years now, i can attest to the lifetime warrenty johhny offers.If you ever break it or have any problems, johnnny will fix it for free.

That was not my point.

From his bio:

Since the beginning of 2006 I have shot Glock pistols exclusively in competition. Prior to this I had shot 1911 style pistols (STI) for three solid years. My number one reason for preferring the Glock is the grip I am able to get on the pistol. Because of the grip angle, ergonomics and low bore axis of the pistol I can get a much higher and more secure grip with both hands. This in effect translates into a shooting platform that is more effective in controlling recoil.

My friend seems to have gone the opposite direction.  He also shot a factory trigger, largely stock pistol.

I have personally held and felt the trigger on one of Vogel's competition pistols, and it is FAR from a stock trigger.  Just sayin...

 
My response was needlessly snippy, and I apologize.


I'm all in favor of everyone shooting the gun that's right for them.  My default reaction when I hear talk of "upgrading" is to assume that people are trying to buy their way into better performance instead of putting in hard work.  That's obviously true in many instances, but unfair in others.

Your G35 is not holding you back. What is more likely holding you back, just like 99% of the shooting world, is the fact that you're probably not shooting it a few hours a day everyday for practice. We can't afford it and we don't have the time.

That being said, if you want a 2011, get one. It won't make you a better shooter, but it may make you more motivated to practice with it. Try one out, though. Just to make sure it has good ergonomics for you.

EDIT:

I have a few questions for you:

1.  Do you shoot with both eyes open?

2.  Can you call your shots?

3.  Do you have a front sight focus or a target focus?

4.  I am ASSuming you can shoot, rapid fire, almost full auto like, at a stationary target about 5 yards away WITHOUT blinking?

5.  Do you practice dry firing at home?



A lot of people plateau at B class.  B class covers a wide percentage range.

You could take the funds you would blow on a 2011 and buy a bunch more components to feed practice ammo to your Glock.

How are you tracking your performance?

Are you just shooting local matches, hoping that you will fall into A class or higher?

What if you used that money instead to pay for a class?

Or do you actually have a plan, practice, and have the discipline to improve?

FWIW I finished at 94% at a local match since this thread started, but it was a small match where no Lim or Open shooters above B showed up.

Have you ever snooped on some bigger named GM's classifier pages?

I think I remember hearing or reading one GM say he was only going to shoot one local match for the entire year.  The rest would be majors.

You could also use that money that would be spent on a 2011 to pay for a larger Area or Nat's level match.

That way you could get a better idea of where you stack up.

I think Mike Seeklander used to have a program where he could see what aspects of your shooting needed to be improved.

On a different note...this is kind of a distinction without much difference, but I think you will understand what I am getting at:  Are you looking to get better at shooting?  Or just move up in class?

Back when I was an MD, I might know what classifier stage we were going to shoot on the Wednesday before a Saturday match.

But I hear other MD's in other locales know a year out and publish what the classifier will be say for June, July, August, etc.

It is a shame there isn't a smart phone app that ties into your classifier page that says something like:  "You need to score X% on the next classifier in order to move into A class.  Your next classifier stage will be ______?"

Then it has a drop down menu of the classifiers for you to choose from.  Click in the appropriate one, then the app spits out "you need to shoot CM ___ Six Chickens in _____ seconds with no points down, or this many seconds with this many points."

Have you considered upgrading your G35 with a fancy trigger?  Perhaps a weight like the SJC.  Or Taylor freelance has a sight block that fits on the end of your barrel and you mount your sight to it, increasing the distance between the sights to G24 length. Or all three?

SJC frame weight

Taylor Freelance Sight Block

Zev Glock Trigger

The Frame Weight in Action (gratuitous hot girl pic)