User Panel
Posted: 11/9/2015 2:28:02 AM EDT
What would it look like? For me, I would start with the scope. A fixed 4.5 power 34mm with a size adjustable circular reticle. 1/4 MOA click target knobs and adjustable parallax. Then for the rifle I guess I'd just do a standard A2 NM flat top, with 20 inch barrel and the standard flash hider. I'd ditch the front sight and just have a low pro gas block. Not sure on the butt stock? How about you guys?
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Unless the rules are final, wait. There are a number of nice scopes that have 4.5x at the bottom of the adjustment range. That may be legal. Maybe not.
I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up on the line. The same folks will win regardless. |
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I'll be waiting for the final rules, but given the perfect scope doesn't exist yet I would start with a Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20, FireDot
Flattop upper, side charging, no front-site, UBR stock, Whiteoak match float tube, adjustable front sling mounting point. |
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A posting on the CMP website says that the weight restriction is gone. No weight restriction for any service rifle either scoped or iron sights.
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Having read G.A's letter on the changes to the rules governing Service Rifle, just about anything goes as long as it's AR like? I'm thinking on using a MegaArms ambi lower with an integrated rightside bolt catch. I'm not interested in reaching over the scope to close the bolt in prone slow fire. I have one on my NRA Match Rifle and it's the slick setup with a charging handle bolt. I could also use a Phase 5 extended bolt release if I didn't have the cash.
Goodby Service Rifle, it was nice to know you! B |
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I think the CMP is worried that they are tending in the same direction as the NRA from a participation standpoint. The Junior participation in XTC has really fallen off over the last 8 or so years and the Service Rifle demographic seems to favor an aging market segment. Unfortunately program growth is unsustainable without new shooters. I think these changes reflect pressure from a few angles but it also appears to be an attempt to attract a younger audience that might not have the interest in buying a dedicated A2 configuration to try their hand at the game. During the post Sandy Hook buying frenzy the majority of AR15 based rifles sold would never be compliant with the current service rifle rules but many, possibly most, would be legit under the proposed rules.
Being a traditionalist I really don't like change but I also would hate to see National Match Course shooting die because of resistance to it. I rallied against this for the last couple of years and virtually no one bothered to voice their concerns until after the fact. The writing was on the wall and there were public discussions about these changes back in 2012. That being said I have put a rifle together and although it is easier to see it's not easier to shoot. I was concerned that something would be lost when sight alignment was taken out of the equation, it has always been a core tenet of marksmanship. Interestingly enough I have found head position is more critical with the scope than it ever was with the irons so that aspect of the shooting process is different but certainly no easier. It's been interesting if nothing else. |
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Having read G.A's letter on the changes to the rules governing Service Rifle, just about anything goes as long as it's AR like? I'm thinking on using a MegaArms ambi lower with an integrated rightside bolt catch. I'm not interested in reaching over the scope to close the bolt in prone slow fire. I have one on my NRA Match Rifle and it's the slick setup with a charging handle bolt. I could also use a Phase 5 extended bolt release if I didn't have the cash. http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad252/bpm990d/a_gtr-3s-ambi-02-right_zpsrsck4b2o.jpg Goodby Service Rifle, it was nice to know you! B View Quote I'm not so sure about that. I believe the verbiage is going to contain some restraints. If it isn't found on some issued version or isn't specifically listed as an approved modification then it won't be legal. So unless there are issued M4's or M16A4 rifles with extended bolt releases I don't believe it will be compliant. I don't know this for fact but I think that is the intent of the rules. |
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I hope you are right, but based on what was written in Gary's article I interpret it to mean I can use an ambi lower.
Specifically he states: “an M16 U. S. Service Rifle or a similar AR15 type commercial rifle that is derived from the M16 service rifle design” and there will be far fewer specific restrictions. 2016 restrictions will simply require M16/AR15-type rifles that:
Are chambered for the 5.56 x 45 mm (.223) NATO cartridge. Are designed or modified for semi-automatic fire only. Have either a gas-impingement system or a piston-operated gas system. Have a barrel that is no longer than 20 inches, with or without a flash suppressor (16” barrels are permitted). Use one upper receiver and barrel for the entire match. Have a trigger pull of at least 4.5 pounds. Use standard service magazines or commercial equivalents that do not contain added weights. Have a fixed or collapsible butt-stock that may vary in length and even be adjusted between firing stages. Butt-plates or cheek-pieces may not, however, be adjustable. Have a standard A1 or A2 pistol grip. I don't see any prohibition on an ambi lower, use an extended bolt catch or a requirement that it be a forged receiver. Obviously his article is not the rulebook, but based on what Gary wrote, I'm thinking they are going to blast the rules apart. B |
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Keep in mind that release is already somewhat dated even though it's only a few weeks old. It's also just the basic outline of the rules proposal. Some things have already been changed since that announcement, most significantly they have already done away with the 11.5lb weight restriction.
I would caution anyone building an optics rifle PRIOR to the official rules being published, we really don't know how it's all going to flesh out until it's written in stone. I would suggest that a standard M16A4, like currently legal, will be certainly legal moving forward so adding a scope base and a 4.5X scope to that rifle will clearly fall within the rules, anything outside of that is speculative at this point. |
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I think these changes reflect pressure from a few angles but it also appears to be an attempt to attract a younger audience that might not have the interest in buying a dedicated A2 configuration to try their hand at the game. View Quote They could always "try their hand at the game" with the rifle they have (NRA in Match category), but that isn't enough for some. I do not expect this to increase participation. For me, I've shot my last NTI. They are removing the one thing I liked about SR over MR. The younger audience is hard to attract because it is not a run-n-gun tacticool game like Call of Duty, not because the rules restrict the hardware. |
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Then stick a fork in this discipline, it's over when us dinosaurs age out. View Quote Possibly, but if it was actually marketed by the two sanctioning bodies, instead of them trying wild rule changes, that might change. As it stands, neither party wants to spend the money on that. Changing the rules to "do something" is free... to them. Golf is in the same boat, by the way. |
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Then stick a fork in this discipline, it's over when us dinosaurs age out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The younger audience is hard to attract because it is not a run-n-gun tacticool game like Call of Duty, not because the rules restrict the hardware. Then stick a fork in this discipline, it's over when us dinosaurs age out. That started with the "remain in position" change, IMO. |
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Quoted: Keep in mind that release is already somewhat dated even though it's only a few weeks old. It's also just the basic outline of the rules proposal. Some things have already been changed since that announcement, most significantly they have already done away with the 11.5lb weight restriction. I would caution anyone building an optics rifle PRIOR to the official rules being published, we really don't know how it's all going to flesh out until it's written in stone. I would suggest that a standard M16A4, like currently legal, will be certainly legal moving forward so adding a scope base and a 4.5X scope to that rifle will clearly fall within the rules, anything outside of that is speculative at this point. View Quote Someone mentioned it a day or so ago, but I haven't found a link. |
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Mark Johnson posted something on the CMP forum to that affect.
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Have you all seen that Keystone Accuracy is offering optic ready Service Rifles with a detachable front sight. That was one I never saw coming. I would have thought that would be a requirement.
The faster they can end the speculation by publishing the actual rules, the happier I'll be. B |
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Mark Johnson posted something on the CMP forum to that affect. View Quote Here is the link. B EDIT: FIXED LINK |
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Quoted:...That being said I have put a rifle together and although it is easier to see it's not easier to shoot. I was concerned that something would be lost when sight alignment was taken out of the equation, it has always been a core tenet of marksmanship. Interestingly enough I have found head position is more critical with the scope than it ever was with the irons so that aspect of the shooting process is different but certainly no easier. It's been interesting if nothing else. View Quote Thanks for your seasoned impression. When High-Masters speak, people should listen. I have shot many ARs with scopes from position and my opinion is the same, even with a 4.5 power scope, it's not going to be easy. You are just introducing a new set of problems that need to be resolved by the individual shooter. I embrace change, otherwise we would still be shooting Trapdoor Springfields and nobody wants that, well nobody still living anyway. I'll be on the line with my new scoped service rifle, that is for sure. |
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Totally agree, the only constant in life is change. I can't say for sure that these changes are good or are even the right direction to go but we won't know until we try. I'm skeptical but trying to keep an open mind about these new rules.
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Same as a conventional smallbore league with people shooting scopes and irons and most of them are shooting at least 14X if they have a scope. Many a time that some Junior that only shoots Irons cleans everyone's clock. The scores are going to go up quite a bit on average IMO, but someone may still be hot with irons and give everyone a run for their money.
Here is the other thing I want to know, will the NRA allow M110s to have a 4.5X optic for long range Service Rifle? B |
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We were talking about this at a local match this weekend. The problem with scope usage was parallax most 4x scopes are set at 75-100 yards and is not adjustable.
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The parallax issue isn't as bad as it might seem. If you have good head position you won't have a problem with parallax set at 100 yards. Some companies like Leupold, let you custom order fixed parallax settings on many of their scopes, I did with the VX-R I ordered. I had mine set for 200 yards.
Now that I better understand parallax the error is significantly worse at shorter ranges and becomes less and less as the distance gets further. |
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The parallax issue isn't as bad as it might seem. If you have good head position you won't have a problem with parallax set at 100 yards. Some companies like Leupold, let you custom order fixed parallax settings on many of their scopes, I did with the VX-R I ordered. I had mine set for 200 yards. Now that I better understand parallax the error is significantly worse at shorter ranges and becomes less and less as the distance gets further. View Quote Good to know. I've been looking for a service rifle scope so it looks like I'll go Leupold. |
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