Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 5/23/2014 6:45:38 PM EDT
First the good news:  I attended a NRA High Power Clinic at my local gun club (Miami Rifle & Pistol outside of Cincinnati, OH link ) and really enjoyed it.  It was an intro to the sport, great presentation upfront followed by one on one time with an instructor to "sling up" and then finally get to the range.  I was lucky to be in the first squad as we had the chance to shoot and the other squad was pulling targets, but right after we finished our shooting and were switching positions, it started to rain hard and lightning so the rest of the class was cancelled.

Better news:  All shooting for the clinic was shot from the 200 yrd line.  I made a last min decision to attend the clinic and when I dug into the details I decided to use my RRA Standard A2 20" rifle, web sling and some basic M193 ammo.  The night before as I was getting all of my gear together and lubing the rifle, I realized that I had never shot it!  I purchased a few years ago and all shooting since has been with M4gery's, but I could have sworn that I had shot a few rounds through it and sighted in at 100 yds.  I thought we might have some time to sight in, but read a bunch of articles on adjusting the sights on the A2 the night before and we were given extra sighter shots and time.  I made some quick calculations in my head, first shot a little low, second shot in the black and 3-5 shots used to fine tune to the X ring and read the wind.  Kinda proud of myself and my rifle.

Best news:  We shot all four courses of fire at 200 (prone slow/sling, prone rapid/sling, sitting/slinged, standing).  I shot 87, 79, 84,84/1x respectively.  Considering I was shooting effectively a new rifle, still fine tuning the sight during my first course of fire and using some 51 year old eyes, I was happy.  LOVED the sport.  Why did I wait until I'm 51 to try this?  Uggh.   I want to shoot Service Rifle and keep my rifle as close to "as issued" as I can, but also be able to compete at a reasonable level.  My experiance at Appleseed a few years ago really helped, esp with the sling and NPA.  I'd also like to shoot the Navy match, Sporter match and give the CMP match a try too.

Now the question(s):  My rifle is a basic Rock River Arms Standard A2, 20" barrel, not chromed and 1/9 twist (99.5% certain, can't find the receipt, rifle circa 2008 factory new).  No free float barrel, no NM sights, but do have the RRA 2 stage NM trigger.  Hogue grip.  What do I need to do to my rifle to effectively compete when running a normal course of fire shooting 200 yards standing and sitting, 300 yards prone/rapid fire and 600 prone/slow fire?  Club says nothing under 69g at 600 yards and I know from shooting my MK12 with MK262 Mod1 77g how effective the 77g is at the longer ranges (only shot it at 200).   I feel like I either need a new NM upper or willing to replace barrel on existing upper.  I believe I need either a 1/8 or 1/7 barrel, free float tube and maybe new rear sight?  if so, which barrel?   Do I need to get a 1/8 stainless or would the Bravo Company 20" chrome lined "As issued" 1/7 twist barrel be good enough?  Can I shoot just one type of ammo or use a mix based on distance?

I'm sure there are more factors to consider, but lets start here.
Link Posted: 5/23/2014 7:18:16 PM EDT
[#1]
From what I'm seeing, taking a quick look at some suppliers, match barrels are in short supply right now.  Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering in Florida appears to have some, he also can sell you a complete upper, my first competition AR was built up by Frank, he and his wife are good people.  Compass Lake Engineering
Link Posted: 5/23/2014 7:39:36 PM EDT
[#2]
All you need to add is a free-float rail (a Daniel Defense Omega 12.0 requires no gunsmithing or altering of your rifle) and sling mount.  You need to replace the Hogue grip with an A1 or A2 GI grip.

With a 1-9 twist you can use 69s (and maybe 75s, depending on your rifle's true twist) and 75 A-Maxs at 600.  Once you shoot 3,000-3,500 rounds through this barrel you can get a 1-7 or 1-8 replacement to use 68/69, 73, 75, or 77s at 200 and 300, and 80s at 600.

Good luck to you, and see you at Camp Perry this summer!
Link Posted: 5/23/2014 7:47:11 PM EDT
[#3]
You did pretty well for your first match.

Well your lower is pretty much good to go, excluding the grip. It's illegal. Get an A2 or A1 grip and you'll be legal. Yeah, you can get a geissele, but you haven't been spoiled with using one yet so you don't know what you're missing out on.

The upper you have right now isn't ideal, to say the least. Do you have the tools to build an upper? If so, you can find a low 200$ barrel (WOA's wait list is a few months, and according to the folks on the national match forum, Greg Meredith of mars rifles has good button barreled tubes from Satern, and theyre ln the low 200s also), a hundred dollar float tube, and a hundred dollar sight assembly (i'm pretty sure you can find the float tube and sight for well under a hundred if you use armalite). Those are very rough numbers, if you shop used you can go pretty cheap. I have a whopping 325$ into my current A2 upper build before the barrel, and that's all with brand new CLE and WOA parts.

Your cheapest option is probably selling your current upper and finding a used NM upper from RRA, bushmaster, armalite, etc. But with that, you have to worry about the round count.

Link Posted: 5/24/2014 1:45:05 AM EDT
[#4]
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/home.php?cat=259

http://www.compasslake.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/shop/Criterion_A2_Upper_Receiver.html

Take your time and do some homework. You can shoot what you have for a while till you hunt down your upgrades.

Used rigs come up too.
Link Posted: 5/24/2014 8:24:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Add John Scandale at Keystone Accuracy to the list. All of these vendors will steer you right.

http://www.keystoneaccuracy.com/
Link Posted: 5/24/2014 11:38:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/24/2014 1:11:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Very good shooting and welcome to HP!

If you want to know your twist, just run a tight patch down the barrel.  Mark your rod with a piece of tape, measure distance to barrel, push in rod until tape makes one revolution and measure again.  1 turn in 9"?

My HP rifles are from CLE.  One was through the CMP with Kreiger barrel, the other is an old rifle I had them rework and rebarrel with a 1 in 9 "Black Star" ?? barrel I had.  One for distance and the other for my local range (100 yds). Both are great guns.  The Kreiger will shoot tiny groups...I can't do it justice!
Link Posted: 5/25/2014 6:52:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Depending on where at you are in Ohio, you can go to Vendors row at camp perry in July and get a Rock River or Armalite for a great deal
Link Posted: 5/27/2014 8:21:12 AM EDT
[#9]
I agree with the options posted so far with regard to your rifle.

The Navy issues RRA NMA2 rifles for competition.  1:8 free float bbl, NM sights with hooded rear aperture.  Many shooters also buy lead weight for the handguard and stock in their personal rifles.  This helps minimize wobble in the offhand, especially when bracing against a wind.  I bought a NMA4 and put lead in it.  Great rifle.

Since you mentioned your age, if your eyes are failing at all I would look into the different lens kits for the rear aperture.  Bob Jones has lenses that will help focus on the front sight, and there are other brands like the micro-site that are legal too.  

As far as ammo:
For full matches I load 77gr HPBT (Nosler or SMK).  My preferred powder is TAC, but others work well.  I loaded 8208XBR for the last match and had good results.  A friend recommended AR Comp because he has had great results with it.

For reduced course matches, like the one you shot at 200yds, I like the 53gr SMK over Win748.  This is very accurate in my NMA4, and cheaper to load than the 77gr MK262 Clone.
Link Posted: 6/14/2014 8:44:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depending on where at you are in Ohio, you can go to Vendors row at camp perry in July and get a Rock River or Armalite for a great deal
View Quote



$925 for the a2
$975 for the a4
At the rock river booth
By far the best deal for a match ready service rifle.

Link Posted: 6/14/2014 9:04:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Plenty of good advice here. I picked up used uppers to get my start. Guys enter and leave the sport for various reasons all the time. There is always good gear to be had.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:42:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Great info guys, thank you very much.  I've been monitoring the results, but have been super busy with work and home life lately.  I did make time this weekend to attend a local Appleseed event with by 12 yo daughter and that was the best Father's Day present I could get.  Story into itself, but great to see her take the interest, learn new things and have some fun at it.

Let me review all of the replies this week, but sure sounds like now is the right time to find either a used NM upper or take advantage of the sales at Camp Perry.  I want to better understand using an A4 style upper too.
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 5:06:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I want to better understand using an A4 style upper too.
View Quote


I've got two of these I bought used. People buy them thinking they will use a scope to ammo test. The best loads are known, and almost no one actually uses the scope. With a standard A2, you can fit your hand through to release the bolt unless your mitts are huge.

If later, you want an ACOG, go A4. If not, go A2.

I've never removed either carry handle.
Link Posted: 6/21/2014 5:25:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've got two of these I bought used. People buy them thinking they will use a scope to ammo test. The best loads are known, and almost no one actually uses the scope. With a standard A2, you can fit your hand through to release the bolt unless your mitts are huge.

If later, you want an ACOG, go A4. If not, go A2.

I've never removed either carry handle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I want to better understand using an A4 style upper too.


I've got two of these I bought used. People buy them thinking they will use a scope to ammo test. The best loads are known, and almost no one actually uses the scope. With a standard A2, you can fit your hand through to release the bolt unless your mitts are huge.

If later, you want an ACOG, go A4. If not, go A2.

I've never removed either carry handle.



I did the same thing, I bought the A4 because I also wanted to put a scope on the rifle for fun and for the kids and guests to shoot. The A4 Rock river NM comes with a 600 yard match detachable carry handle with the only issue is that is doesn't have enough room in the handle to stick your hand through easily. Not a big deal. If it is going to be a dedicated service rifle, then get the A2, only because you have more room to stick your hand through.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 5:50:24 PM EDT
[#15]
I hate to cross post, but I did start a new thread in the ammo section to get advise on how to test for what bullets will stabilize in my standard RRA A2 upper until I can buy a NM upper.  its here

I'm going to try to make it to Camp Perry this year, but funds and work are looking like limiting factors.  May have to go the used route.  In the thread above, I'd like to find the right way to test various ammo of at least 69g that I can use on my clubs 600 yrd range in my current rifle for now and standardize on that until I can get a new or used 1:8 upper to shoot 77g.

Still debating the A2 or A4 style for now (leaning dedicated NM A2 upper, buy or build an A4 for a scoped upper for general use later), but thats pretty much on hold until I see what I can do with what I have.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 10:48:32 PM EDT
[#16]
With a jag, tight patch, and cleaning rod, you can test your twist. After that, you just have to load a few and test at the range. I've had several barrels listed as 1:9 that are really 1:8. They stabilize the heavies just fine.
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top