Greetings from Arizona!  My Daughter is moving to upstate New York (Watertown area).  She shoots a SW MP 9mm down here but can't take it with her and possess in NY.  I have checked into various options for her.  I tried a Mossberg 20G but it didn't impress me with it's reliability.  I have heard that Mini 14's are ok to have but must be limited to 10 round mags.  Correct?  Are they hard to come by up there?  She can either purchase one here and take it with her or just get one up there after familiarizing herself with one down here. I have also thought that a SW shield in 9mm would work for her but again what does she need to go through to either bring one in with her or buy and posses one up there?  As I understand it she would have to apply for a pistol permit with the wait that entails and go through registration.

She will have to become a NY resident and get a permit for a hand gun.  She will need references from within her county.  There may even be more hurtles as she is a new implant.  It can take over a year in some counties.  

Or get a neutered long gun.  Buy the long gun down there as everything good is hard to find here and overpriced.

Jefferson County isn't bad for PP wait times. I'm about an hour south of Watertown and travel there weekly for work. I think a 500 or an 870 in 12ga with low recoil 00 buck is the best way to go. Let us know when you are moving her up and maybe some of us can grab a beer or help out. Feel free to PM me and I will give you my cell number if you need help scouting apartments or anything of the like.

Is she being stationed on Ft. Drum?
Watertown and the surrounding areas aren't too bad for crime; about the worst ironically is the drug dealers from NYC that come up here, find an impressionable girl and turn her. (not saying that'll happen, but situational awareness is always a good thing)
We're about six hours North of NYC and a good hour North of Syracuse which is the nearest significant City.
Handguns are a no-go until a Licenses is secured; that's a daunting, time consuming task that'll take upwards of a year to get done.
Pump guns are fine as are most others typically thought of as "hunting" guns.
I've been stationed/lived/worked here for 28 years and been heavily involved in gun rights; message or e-mail if you'd like to talk.  

The Mini-14 is good so long as it doesn't have a folding stock, bayonet lug, flash hider, etc.
10 round mags are easy enough to obtain....we have them in the Shop.

The Watertown area is a far cry from NYC.   Winters are long and cold, snow can be terrible, but winter sports are cool, and the proximity to the 1000 Islands is amazing.

Handguns are going to take forever.  Usually, the references must have known you for at least a year, and you need often need to be a resident for a while.  I know this sounds wishy-washy and uncertain, but NY is this way -  permits are at the discretion of the judge, and each one makes his own rules.  Mine had rules that you had to be a resident for a few years.  I was only here months, but attached paperwork documenting handgun ownership, training, etc over the previous ten years, and a letter stating that in those ten years I had ZERO problems.  I got my permit.    Even if she meets criteria, it will take a good 12 months......  Do not bring it here until and unless she has the permit.  

Your options are semi auto carbines that look like old fashioned sporting rifles:  Mini14's, M1 carbines (with flash-hiders, bayo lugs removed), Marling camp carbines, Ruger PC9/PC40, pump shotguns, lever carbines, etc.  Mossber 500's are okay.  A youth 870 would work pretty good.   A traditional SKS does not have a removable magazine, so its not an Assault Rifle under NY definitions, even though it has a bayonet.  

Mini's are available.  They run a good $750 new.  Must be a model without a pistol grip, and no flash hider.  Mags must be 10 rounders or less. There is a Gander Mountain in Watertown, but prices are high.

Don't let your baby come to NY.

I'm trying to get mine hired OUT of NY.

THIS is the God's honest truth.  Do not make the mistake of coming to NYS from Free America no matter how what they offer you!  It is a trap for the unwary.

Go stop by a Herb Philipsons and pick up a Saiga 7.62x39 or .223.  $600.  Might as well get a communist rifle since she'll be in communist york.

I am pretty sure Saigas are nearly gone from shelves....

Not in newark, they still had several last week.  I got a 2nd one, coworker picked up one.  So, yea, we're not helping.  



 

To clarify, she is moving there with her husband who is stationed at Ft. Drum.  They will be living in Sackets Harbor.

I would like to get her a Mini 14 here in AZ. which she could then get familiar with down here before moving back.  We could also make sure the gun runs right/reliably with the 10 rnd. mags we would get for it.
I also have a Ruger PC9 carbine here that I could train her on as well.  I would have to get 10 rounders for that as well.  The downside is that they will have to travel with either of those 2 guns back to NY state.

The other way to work it is to train her on a rifle here (either Mini 14 or PC9) and then have them purchase the same rifle up there (if bringing one in from AZ is an issue).  My preference is to have her train on it here in AZ and then take it back with them when they go back but I don't know how much of a problem bringing a rifle in from another state to NY would be.

An ar15 with a thorsden stock would also be an option provided there wasn't a muzzle device or bayo lug

Sackets Harbor is a gorgeous town. She'll enjoy.

Go to any NYS LGS and buy an 870. Modify as desired.

Go the route of buying one out of state and ship it to herself in NY.  Nothing wrong with that.  



Here, read this PDF on the unsafe act to determine what features aren't allowed in soviet york.



Standard Ruger Mini (not the tactical version) is fine with 10 round magazines.  Ammo is available all over the place up here for it.  Watertown is only a couple hours from me.  I'm sure there are ranges in the area that she could keep up practice with it, too.

Have her bring the ammo with her if at all possible.  Once the ammo database goes live the KGB will know what calibers you are buying.  Don't make their job of confiscating weapons easier.

Good point.  Just sayin', she'll have a caliber rifle that she can get more ammo if needed.  Though, with the expensive mags for the Ruger, I'd go with an AR platform with either the AR15 Spur, or Thordsen stock, so you can get cheap 10 round pmags.



Pretty simple to build a compliant one.

I do not see a NY compliant AR as a better self defense weapon than a small shotgun. I hate the spur, the Thorsden is kind of awesome, but neither is comfortable in what I consider a self defense posture. Assuming that she has a typical woman's small frame, the Thorsden is a man size stock.Maybe the spur does fit a woman's hand better than my meat paws........,

Well the good news is Sacketts is about as good as it gets in the Ft. Drum/Watertown area.   It's an upscale lakeside village.  The major apartment complex there caters to the military families.  The old brick apartments there were actually an Army post at one time.  Ulyses Grant once commanded the fort there.  (no fort remains, just the later barracks and community buildings, a few in various state of overhaul).  Some rather nice bars and restaurants in Sacketts too, good school for the area.  Much better for the family than the Philly, Black River, Antwerp area that many at Ft. Drum choose for their proximity to the fort.  Having to drive through the city of Watertown home is worth the trouble to not live in Philly.

if there was a town to go without a handgun in the area, Sacketts is probably it.  Generally the area is pretty low in crime unless you're a dealer in unlicensed pharm.   Watertown, Philly, and Antwerp probably have the most crime in the area.   They generally get the lowest common denominator types.   That might be rude or impolite but it's the truth.   Watertown seems to be getting the NYC connection trash, either the dealers coming in to market or the shitbirds thrown out of the army or  that ETS and just flop there and collect a check.   Once you get away from the Ft. and the city things get better quickly.


+1 for the Sacketts fish and game club just up the road from where she'll be.   She'll be less than 5 minutes from the range.   A family membership is probably cheap there, I know the individual mil one is cheap.

Figure they will be there about 2 years.   Unless they're die hard pistol shooters/carriers they might even just skip it for 2 years seeing as they'll only get to carry the 2nd year or so.


mini14 or 870 youth and done.   Hell if they duck hunt they don't have to go far at all to use the 870 for that.  Black River bay is a decent wildlife and fishing area.

fp1201 has very good insight to what's going on there.  I've left the area but it was good to me while I was there.

They're much more likely to desperately need a good snowblower.   Sacketts is in the lake effect snow band.  

I dunno, I had to put the butt pad on my thordsen to increase the lop, without it, it's too short.  Might be good for a smaller framed person.



Mine's on a heavy 20" rifle, hbar.  I should throw a light 16" upper on it to see how it feels.



Don't get me wrong, I like the Ruger Mini 14/30 (I have a 30), I just get turned off by the price of magazines and the hit and miss quality of the mags.

What was unreliable about the Mossberg 20GA? Model 500? Some other model? When factoring in what type of structure she would be living in and proximity to neighbors, vis-a-vis over penetration of the weapon. Clearly a slug will pass through a number of walls, but will the .32 or .36 caliber balls (is that right?) in "00" buck be less likely to over-penetrate, or would a hollow point 9mm or hollow point .45, which brings us back to the Camp Carbine idea. Had one. Liked it. They take a mag that is also used in some older SW pistols, can't remember what they are (5969 or 5696, something like that).

This.

Kinda why I never got one when I was there.  I'd been gone so long (navy) that when I came back I didn't really have references in the county other than family and none of them had permits.  

I recommend she check out the local county's requirements on permits to see what they have the rules as.  I don't know if the new legislation (Crap - I mean safe - was spawned after I left) has changed the requirements for getting a permit.

First and foremost thank you for all the replies.

I have decided on the Ruger PC9 carbine that I have had for about 7 years.

I will have her train with this weapon while she is with us in AZ and then she will take it back when she and her husband travel back by car to NY.

As far as her legally possessing this rifle do I have to sell it to her or can I, as her father, just give it to her?  

I want to make sure that she and her husband are well within the NY state laws.

Thanks again!

Check your local laws in AZ but I do believe you can transfer face to face without a background check. Especially to immediate family.

In NY all transfers require a background check but there is an exception for immediate family. Not sure how it works if you were to bring it up here in your possession and then transfer to her. I believe that would be a transfer across state lines and may require a BGC.

I would think it is much better to gift it to her while she is still an AZ resident.  Then she brings it to NY as her personal property with no issues, no paperwork, no FFL hoop.  Can't do that with a pistol or one of the NY prohibited firearms but the camp 9 should be fine as long as you haven't done all the tapco mods.

So I will be giving (gifting) the PC9 plus 4-10 round Ruger mags. plus some ammo to her here in AZ and then she and her husband can just take it up with them when they travel by car back to NY.

Is there anything specific to NY regarding the "gifting" process that I or she needs to be aware of?  

Should I sell ($1) it to her and makeup a receipt showing that I, the lawful owner, sold it to her and she has legal possession?  Should I give her a copy of the original sales receipt showing me as original owner and then a receipt showing transfer from me to her?

Or am I putting to fine a point on it and worrying about nothing...

I just want to make sure that her and her husband are well within the law.

Again, thanks for all the helpful replies.

Its beautiful country up there.  

Tell your daughter and her husband that if they ever want to go salmon fishing to let me know, i'll take them out

Do whatever you normally do in AZ.  

If it's compliant with our laws as far as aw's go then she just transports it here in her household, (unloaded).

No exemptions for active military?????????.....I know in Georgia your military ID gives the same rights/privlidges as a Georgia Weapons License........

No, nope, and no-way.   NYS offers NO reciprocity with ANY State. The ONLY Military exemption is the issuance of Duty Weapons in the course of their Duty (i.e. MP's on Post or Official Business)
Outside handguns, evil black guns, and Class III the Laws covering guns isn't any worse (or better) than most other States. We really get screwed over because of NYC and the big Cities down State (which ironically they  call "up State") of which we're a good six hours North of.
Syracuse is an hour South, Rochester is 2-1/2" hrs. West and Buffalo is about three.
I don't know what they drive, but they'd damn well better be prepared for heavy snow fall; they don't need tire chains, but they do need good tires and a fully operational heater. Coming from AZ it'll be very pleasant until October when the early am temps will be in the low 40's or colder then in November the snow starts with Dec~March being the worse.
Roads are well maintained, but if you've no experience with loose or slippery road conditions you're going to have to learn real quick.

NY trust the soldiers?  Get real,   not even the military management trusts the soldiers with personally owned firearms, alcohol, vehicles, motorcycles, their own sexual organs, tobacco, tattoos, wives, girlfriends, children, jarts, or nerf footballs.   Hell they don't even trust them to run near a roadway without getting run over.  

Sorry, minor rant occurred.   Anyways NY is worse.

NY trusts NO ONE, but demands you trust them.  

Yeah it can suck if you're new to the area.  I think in the past few years (well before that SAFEshit at least) there was some uniformity but... when I left it was kinda fucked.

The basic rules for getting a permit were
1) 21+
2) Attend a safety class
3) Be a resident of the county you're applying in*
4) Character witnesses - and they also have to have valid permits*


3 & 4 is where some counties liked to fuck you over.  Some would add in their own time-as-resident restrictions (some said 12 months while some only said 6) ... and some counties use to throw in requirements that the character witnesses had to be residents, or knew you for x amount of years etc.


Good luck though.

NY has some fun self defense "rules".  If I remember the wording correctly.... the victim is "obligated to flee".  No castle doctrine, if she has to defend herself from a violent attacker or home invader she can only use self defense as a legal defense at the trial.  Then she'll have to prove that she had no way to flee and defended herself as a last resort.  NY's great.  I've actually been looking at jobs in AZ.

NYS law says that a decision must be made in a reasonable amount of time and a denial must be accompanied by a clear and concise reason.  Not in Chemung county.  I had a friend with no criminal record whatsoever who received his denial about 8mo after turning in all the paperwork.  No reason was given whatsoever.  I believe the law says the permit cannot cost more than $35, costs over $200 here after everything's said and done.

That's the problem with NYS permits... counties make their own rules that violate those set forth by the NYSP.  My friend wound up talking to the trooper in charge of pistol permits at the state level and he was astounded by what our local judge was doing.  My friend was told to make an appointment with the judge to get a written statement as to why he was denied and forward it to the state permit office, he was told that the judge HAS TO allow the appointment and give the reason.  The judge refused.  My friend has since moved to CO.  I hope to head out west myself very soon, or at least make the move 20mi south to PA for a little while.

They want to discourage you from having guns.

Seriously it worked for me.  I saw all of that shit and gave up.  And then I moved to a state that treats me like an adult who doesn't need Mommy & Daddy's permission to exercise my rights.

If she brings the PC9 will getting pistol ammo in NYS be a problem?
Plus, get her lots of really warm clothing and a pair of insulated LL Bean boots, winters up there are pretty brutal.

I imagine that getting anything like ammo at the Ft Drum  PX will be easier and cheaper than any LGS.

If nothing changed up here, then getting pistol ammo as long the buyer is 21 and says it's for a rifle not pistol when asked.

The PX has a fine selection of popular calibers at a fair price, and best of all no FUAC Sales Tax.
Herb Phillipsons (Local chain) is very well stocked with ammunition and a better selection of long guns than Gander Mountain (much better prices too!)
There's really only 1-1/2 stocking "Gun Shops" in the area: Van Tassel's Gunsmithing (full time, full line) and Pete's Guns (only open after 5:00) and a few FFL's in the AO.
If you like to Hunt & Fish opportunities abound. (make sure they bring previously issued Licenses, else they'll have to take a Hunter Safety Course)
No place is truly "safe" but the surrounding communities are very small, and while Watertown has it's issues but it's pretty tame with the worst being Drugs & pushers migrating from NYC (Until the Metro Task force makes them bitches) the obligatory Bar fights, petty larceny, etc. Murder/Rape/Assault are minimal, but do happen.
If you live on Post about the worst thing to worry about is someone with PTSD reaching critical mass, usual domestic dispute, drunk & disorderly, else again pretty tame.

Other than finding it, she won't have any problem getting 9mm ammo. (again, feel free to contact me off-line if they need places to check, and be sure they ask for "9mm ammo for a rifle.")
Winters ARE and WILL BE brutal to those from minimal or no snow States: Help and advise with preparation is readily available; folks have been sent here for decades.

I ordered some Speer 9mm 124 grain hollow point Gold Dot for her to take with her and today I realized I may have made an error.  

I didn't check first about whether it was legal for her to posses "evil" hollow point ammo for her PC9 carbine.

Did I screw up?

No.

Just tell her not to drive through NJ with it

Hollow points are ok in NY.  Just don't have them in the car and travel to NJ.  Each round is a felony in NJ.