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Posted: 4/23/2014 6:44:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not worried about IEDs and mines, you are correct. I am worried about getting shot at - there are plenty of photos of Lenco Bears and Bearcats with bullet marks where people have ambushed officers. The main benefit of these vehicles is not that they will resist a mine. The main benefit is that they are rolling cover. The corporations that build these do design them for the military. They adapt the ones they sell directly to LE by just changing the interior - much like how GM adapts cars for police use. Why reinvent the wheel when you have something already designed? So they leave the V hull in and use the same process to make the LE vehicles. Less development costs, less R&D. Sounds like good business to me. These MRAPs are the same thing. The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Instead they are helping out YOU the taxpayer by not having you foot the bill for equipment for your local region. Instead of departments having to scrape together 500,000$ for a bearcat, they just have to pay the bill for maintaining them, which is no different than a dump truck. I understand ya'll think they look scary, but really who cares what it looks like. PD is not going to respond to your barking dog complaint with this. This is going to be rolled out in dangerous instances like barricaded armed persons, hostage situations, active shootings, etc. That is what armor is for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sir, myself and most would agree that we appreciate your service to our community. But respectfully, MRAP's are not light armored vehicles and you were not worried about mines and ambushes on the way to serve your warrant. Nobody is saying that light armored vehicles are not appropriate. But MRAP's are unnecessary and only benefit the military industrial corporations selling them to the Fed to give to the local PD.. I'm not worried about IEDs and mines, you are correct. I am worried about getting shot at - there are plenty of photos of Lenco Bears and Bearcats with bullet marks where people have ambushed officers. The main benefit of these vehicles is not that they will resist a mine. The main benefit is that they are rolling cover. The corporations that build these do design them for the military. They adapt the ones they sell directly to LE by just changing the interior - much like how GM adapts cars for police use. Why reinvent the wheel when you have something already designed? So they leave the V hull in and use the same process to make the LE vehicles. Less development costs, less R&D. Sounds like good business to me. These MRAPs are the same thing. The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Instead they are helping out YOU the taxpayer by not having you foot the bill for equipment for your local region. Instead of departments having to scrape together 500,000$ for a bearcat, they just have to pay the bill for maintaining them, which is no different than a dump truck. I understand ya'll think they look scary, but really who cares what it looks like. PD is not going to respond to your barking dog complaint with this. This is going to be rolled out in dangerous instances like barricaded armed persons, hostage situations, active shootings, etc. That is what armor is for. Sell them to the Mexican government to combat IEDs & ambushes? Or sell them on the civilian market? I'm sure there are plenty of guys that want something bigger to dwarf those guys driving H1s. Just imagine rappers pulling up next to you with spinners & fuzzy covers or Bubba with the thing painted as a Confederate flag blowing Dixie from giant air horns. I'm cheap so I'd suggest having a few designated armored vehicles (county/state level, not city) that can be plugged in where needed. The local cities could always have an agreement with the local armored car companies to borrow their vehicles in case of the infrequent need. Planned raids can be coordinated around the pooled vehicles - kinda like the concept of more companies/millionaires leasing time on corporate jets (shared costs & maintenance). |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 6:58:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Bearcats are Police vehicles and appropriate for large city pd's and county sheriffs. Some are needed, no doubt. At least with the county sheriff, we can support or oppose the election campain. I would think that smaller towns can recieve prompt armored support when needed. The radio is more powerful than the gun. Even front line troops need to wait for or coordinate support sometimes. What does it matter if the maintenance budget and operating cost is a lot higher for the MRAP than Bearcat? The bearcat is with repairs may still more appropriate. How much would the cost comparison be for driving a M1 Abrams compared to a H1 Humvee?
As far as what to do with MRAP's, sell them to the Israeli's or other allies that need heavy armored vehicles. Saudi Arabia is spending lots on their military. But don't give them away for free. Mothball them if necessary. Remember the Lend Lease program from WWII? We are not scared of local pd becase they are our friends, family and part of our local community. But the militarization of police is a big concern to many people. Some people are concerned that the Military Industrial Corporations are going to turn the guns on us for their profit. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:13:26 PM EDT
[#3]
If they were able to have kids = you would get an MRAP |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:21:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryI'm not worried about IEDs and mines, you are correct. I am worried about getting shot at - there are plenty of photos of Lenco Bears and Bearcats with bullet marks where people have ambushed officers.
The main benefit of these vehicles is not that they will resist a mine. The main benefit is that they are rolling cover. The corporations that build these do design them for the military. They adapt the ones they sell directly to LE by just changing the interior - much like how GM adapts cars for police use. Why reinvent the wheel when you have something already designed? So they leave the V hull in and use the same process to make the LE vehicles. Less development costs, less R&D. Sounds like good business to me. These MRAPs are the same thing. The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Instead they are helping out YOU the taxpayer by not having you foot the bill for equipment for your local region. Instead of departments having to scrape together 500,000$ for a bearcat, they just have to pay the bill for maintaining them, which is no different than a dump truck. I understand ya'll think they look scary, but really who cares what it looks like. PD is not going to respond to your barking dog complaint with this. This is going to be rolled out in dangerous instances like barricaded armed persons, hostage situations, active shootings, etc. That is what armor is for. Quote HistoryI'm not worried about IEDs and mines, you are correct. I am worried about getting shot at - there are plenty of photos of Lenco Bears and Bearcats with bullet marks where people have ambushed officers.
The main benefit of these vehicles is not that they will resist a mine. The main benefit is that they are rolling cover. The corporations that build these do design them for the military. They adapt the ones they sell directly to LE by just changing the interior - much like how GM adapts cars for police use. Why reinvent the wheel when you have something already designed? So they leave the V hull in and use the same process to make the LE vehicles. Less development costs, less R&D. Sounds like good business to me. These MRAPs are the same thing. The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Instead they are helping out YOU the taxpayer by not having you foot the bill for equipment for your local region. Instead of departments having to scrape together 500,000$ for a bearcat, they just have to pay the bill for maintaining them, which is no different than a dump truck. I understand ya'll think they look scary, but really who cares what it looks like. PD is not going to respond to your barking dog complaint with this. This is going to be rolled out in dangerous instances like barricaded armed persons, hostage situations, active shootings, etc. That is what armor is for. I understand what you are saying & I thank you for your service to our communities. My thing is my tax dollars have already been spent to build these MRAP’s and now my local tax dollars are going to be spent on training & maintenance cost for these units! Why does Wylie a populace of around 42,000 and an area around 35 square miles need one of these? I shared this to my FB page and one of my childhood buddies that has been in the military for more than twenty years sent me this PM since he is still active duty. So I can't voice this publicly because I'm still on active duty, and you know big brother and all that jazz. But you know why they are "giving away" MRAPs to cities is because our wonderful government is trying to cover up the fact that they wasted billions of tax payer dollars on those.
Not that they're not good vehicles and that they didn't save lives because they are actually really good and they did save a lot of lives, but they over contracted like you wouldn't believe. They thought it was going to replace the HMMWV, which is did not. They destroyed about 200 of them in Afghanistan just so they wouldn't have to pay to ship them out of the country and continue to pay maintenance fees on them. The other option was for them to get shipped to Europe and sit in a facility rotting away waiting to get used again. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:27:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:But MRAP's are unnecessary and only benefit the military industrial corporations selling them to the Fed to give to the local PD.. Stop it with this silly Military Industrial Complex nonsense. We built almost 30,000 MRAPS and we have a thousand or so that are going to be surplused. The so-called Military Industrial Complex is not benefiting from this, they are taking a major hit. Navstar alone lost 50% revenue last year as program came to an end. They are not even selling spare parts, DOD is giving those away too. ETA: I was focusing on the Military Industrial Complex nonsense and missed the part where you claimed they were "unnecessary and only benefit the military industrial corporations" I am pretty sure they benefited every soldier who was involved in an IED and came home with all their limbs. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 7:36:27 PM EDT
[#6]
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:15:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. My response to them: 
Seriously, water treatment plant? That's the best they can do? |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:29:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stop it with this silly Military Industrial Complex nonsense. We built almost 30,000 MRAPS and we have a thousand or so that are going to be surplused. The so-called Military Industrial Complex is not benefiting from this, they are taking a major hit. Navstar alone lost 50% revenue last year as program came to an end. They are not even selling spare parts, DOD is giving those away too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:But MRAP's are unnecessary and only benefit the military industrial corporations selling them to the Fed to give to the local PD.. Stop it with this silly Military Industrial Complex nonsense. We built almost 30,000 MRAPS and we have a thousand or so that are going to be surplused. The so-called Military Industrial Complex is not benefiting from this, they are taking a major hit. Navstar alone lost 50% revenue last year as program came to an end. They are not even selling spare parts, DOD is giving those away too. So the 30,000 MRAP's and spare parts were not a profit to a military corporation? I guess a lot were unneeded. At the very least, what you are saying is this is a taxpayer cluster mess. If they give two or three thousand MRAP's to local PD's, will not more spare parts eventually be needed? Even if gifted by the DOD, the taxpayer still pays a profit to a military corporation. Will a few, smaller, light armored vehicles be more cost effective for the citizens of North Texas? Was Eisenhower wrong with his assessment that military industrial corparations would influence "every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government."? What is silly about the militarization of police? Who profits? |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:30:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. Quoted, because I really did not believe anyone at "Wylie, TX City Hall" was that stupid: Wylie, TX City Hall Thank you for the comments. Be aware that prior to receiving this vehicle Wylie PD did not have an armored vehicle to protect officers during dangerous, life threatening, incidents. Similar armored vehicles found in cities throughout the Metroplex cost upwards to $500,000. Wylie is also home to the North Texas Municipal Water District that supplies water to more than 1.5 million people in 60 cities...a critical facility to protect. In addition to displaying the vehicle at events, it can be used during times of natural disaster, including flooding, or severe storm damage making roads impassable Yes, with a straight face they are claiming they need an MRAP to protect NTMWD offices, not the lakes, or pipe infrastructure, which are located outside of Wylie. Then they wonder why the citizens get upset. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:31:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. ~Lol |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 8:37:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
~Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. ~Lol There is a gigantic facepalm talking place at Wylie PD right now. |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:09:27 PM EDT
[#12]
I saw one rolling into Carthage on 59 South last week.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 9:34:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a gigantic facepalm talking place at Wylie PD right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The city responded to the facebook comments by saying they have a water treatment plant to protect. ~Lol There is a gigantic facepalm talking place at Wylie PD right now. Picard style facepalm comes to mind... |
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Posted: 4/23/2014 10:29:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't do parades and I don't wear multicam, sorry. 75% of my job is arresting felons and the other 25% is serving high risk search warrants. Yesterday we arrested a guy who had 20 pounds of marijuana and had been distilling it with butane into "honey oil" inside his house, right across the street from an elementary school. He's lucky he didn't blow it up. He had 8 guns in the residence, one in every room. He had a 5 year old and a teenager living in the middle of piles of marijuana, guns, and cans of butane. It was reckless and downright dangerous. It sure was nice having our armored car out front of his house when he looked at us through his 8 surveillance cameras. One might surmise he saw that and decided to give up peacefully instead of shooting it out with us in a busy residential neighborhood. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fantasy? I'm not the one parading around on civilian streets dressed like a combat soldier in Afghanistan. 75% of your job is writing traffic tickets and cruising parking lots looking for expired registrations. You don't need a MRAP for that. I don't do parades and I don't wear multicam, sorry. 75% of my job is arresting felons and the other 25% is serving high risk search warrants. Yesterday we arrested a guy who had 20 pounds of marijuana and had been distilling it with butane into "honey oil" inside his house, right across the street from an elementary school. He's lucky he didn't blow it up. He had 8 guns in the residence, one in every room. He had a 5 year old and a teenager living in the middle of piles of marijuana, guns, and cans of butane. It was reckless and downright dangerous. It sure was nice having our armored car out front of his house when he looked at us through his 8 surveillance cameras. One might surmise he saw that and decided to give up peacefully instead of shooting it out with us in a busy residential neighborhood. Serious question: why would you serve a warrant on a potentially violent felon across from an elementary school? Why wouldn't you wait til he left to get food or something, and confront him when he's not barricaded? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:07:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Where or how might a civilian obtain such a vehicle if desired? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for the municipality-free-discounted MRAP. But how would a civie come across mil surplus vehicles for sale the gov doesn't need anymore? thanks |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:18:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where or how might a civilian obtain such a vehicle if desired? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for the municipality-free-discounted MRAP. But how would a civie come across mil surplus vehicles for sale the gov doesn't need anymore? thanks Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Where or how might a civilian obtain such a vehicle if desired? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for the municipality-free-discounted MRAP. But how would a civie come across mil surplus vehicles for sale the gov doesn't need anymore? thanks AFAIK its not legal for the military to sell you those things.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:26:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand ya'll think they look scary, but really who cares what it looks like. PD is not going to respond to your barking dog complaint with this. This is going to be rolled out in dangerous instances like barricaded armed persons, hostage situations, active shootings, etc. That is what armor is for. Quote HistoryQuoted:  And I would refuse to drive the one we have to the barking dog call.Also people need to remember these things are likely in use in a multi-agency capacity and you wont see them very often. I keep seeing a lot of maintenance cost complaints, but the engine is a standard diesel engine. It's not a locomotive. Parts domestically for drivetrain and tires will be available for a long time. It's not complicated technology. The most disappointing thing to me was seeing the automatic transmission.
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Posted: 4/24/2014 4:37:59 AM EDT
[#18]
To all you Law Enforcement types that responded:
The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:08:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To all you Law Enforcement types that responded: The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. *Standing Ovation* Well said, JBnTX... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:45:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question: why would you serve a warrant on a potentially violent felon across from an elementary school? Why wouldn't you wait til he left to get food or something, and confront him when he's not barricaded? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Good thoughts. We can't force people to leave sometimes. Also we did it when school wasn't in session. 
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:46:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where or how might a civilian obtain such a vehicle if desired? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for the municipality-free-discounted MRAP. But how would a civie come across mil surplus vehicles for sale the gov doesn't need anymore? thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The military has said they don't need them anymore, which is why they are surplusing them. As the Wylie guys said, a lot of these are basically brand new. They can't return them - they're already paid for. What would you rather be done with them, cut up for scrap? Where or how might a civilian obtain such a vehicle if desired? I'm sure I wouldn't qualify for the municipality-free-discounted MRAP. But how would a civie come across mil surplus vehicles for sale the gov doesn't need anymore? thanks Contact the DOD and put in your request. Or ... https://www.google.com/search?q=military+surplus+vehicles&oq=military+surplus+vehicles&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3783j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8 |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 5:47:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To all you Law Enforcement types that responded: The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. You questioned, we answered. Just because we gave you answers you didn't like doesn't mean we are wrong or are part of some big conspiracy to come get you. I hate to break it to you, but I probably have a lot more guns than most people on this board. If the gubbermint is here to take my guns, why would I help them take something I value so much? Boston Bombing. Dorner. LA Bank of America robbery. There are numerous armed confrontations throughout our history where LE has needed some sort of mobile cover in order to protect innocents in the area and apprehend the offenders. I'm sure the folks in San Bernadino thought "nothing like that would ever happen here". |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 6:36:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...Boston Bombing. Dorner. LA Bank of America robbery. There are numerous armed confrontations throughout our history where LE has needed some sort of mobile cover in order to protect innocents in the area and apprehend the offenders.. LA BoA? Maybe. Boston bombing and Dorner? Not so much. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 7:12:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw one rolling into Carthage on 59 South last week. It was probably headed to Toledo Bend to guard it from the terrorists, just like the Wylie one to guard Lake Lavon. I'm not sure many of the bridges in Collin County are even load rated to support an MRAP. Using one on rural roads, as someone suggested would prove to be a problem because the outskirts of Wylie will barely support a load of hay on a tractor. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 7:57:10 AM EDT
[#25]
The militarization of police is not a sign of some massive conspiracy. However, what bothers me is the mindset that seems to develop as a PD gets more and more of these goodies. Too many police are going around thinking they're in a combat zone. You are civilians. Your job is to catch bad guys, not destroy the enemy. No knock raids, shoot first - assess later, full SWAT deployments for a guy with a knife... come on. Once you have the toys you want to use them. What's the saying? If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail?
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Posted: 4/24/2014 8:26:04 AM EDT
[#26]
Can we stop this militarization of police nonsense if it wasnt for that there never would have been swat teams and then the whole protect and serve would have gone belly up does anyone here remember the north hollywood shootout?
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Posted: 4/24/2014 8:56:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Just drove by the municipal building. They have it parked under the old drive through covered teller window.Lol.
Though it would be bigger. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 9:28:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the thought that counts, as in why do civilian police forces think they need the same weapons and equipment as the military? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry guys - the MRAP is nothing more than an armored dump truck..... It's the thought that counts, as in why do civilian police forces think they need the same weapons and equipment as the military? Odd, but the antigun mentality is the same...........why do civilians need the same guns as the military? If you really believe in the Second Amendment you would realize how  you sound.
There is a definite militarization of America's civilian police forces, and it's too widespread not to be someone's purposeful agenda.
Oh good grief. Stop reading Infowars and listening to crackpots like Alex Jones. Police departments have been getting militarized for decades............it isn't anything new. It's only news to those completely and wholly ignorant of history. Whether it was Jeeps to the USPS, BAR's, Thompson submachine guns or M16's to local PD's or trucks to the Forest Service, surplus equipment from the Federal government is nothing new. I would rather see a local PD use one for photo ops than see it scrapped. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:26:26 AM EDT
[#29]
^ Huge difference between military and civilian, man. Blurring the line between the two is what leads to trouble.
I have a problem with police officers that call citizens, "civilians" as if they were conducting an OPFOR exercise. Blame homeland security funding for all of this. These hayseed departments would never get a nickel for their toy lists from local taxpayers. It all comes from Congress and their overspending. To take the whole guns and law enforcement aspect out of this, imagine a volunteer fire department getting a "free" airport firefighting vehicle. One of the big ones the size of an 18 wheeler that can dispatch a fully engulfed 747 in seconds. The "free" firetruck would have no place to be housed, would dry rot in the sun and could not be used for anything other than a mass casualty train accident or hazmat situation. This MRAP thing falls into that category. Silly. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:49:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryPolice departments have been getting militarized for decades............it isn't anything new. It's only news to those completely and wholly ignorant of history. Whether it was Jeeps to the USPS, BAR's, Thompson submachine guns or M16's to local PD's or trucks to the Forest Service, surplus equipment from the Federal government is nothing new. Well, I guess that makes it ok, then! Since it's been going on for years, we might as well keep it going. Makes sense to me. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 10:55:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To take the whole guns and law enforcement aspect out of this, imagine a volunteer fire department getting a "free" airport firefighting vehicle. One of the big ones the size of an 18 wheeler that can dispatch a fully engulfed 747 in seconds. The "free" firetruck would have no place to be housed, would dry rot in the sun and could not be used for anything other than a mass casualty train accident or hazmat situation. This MRAP thing falls into that category. Silly. Yeah sure, no VFD has a truck as big or bigger than an 18 wheeler. Just up the road from Wylie: http://www.blueridgefire-tx.us/apparatus.html Other places I have been VFD 
Nope no place to park those,let em rot in the sun unused. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:02:35 AM EDT
[#32]
Hey, I can play the firetruck game too. Which would be more worthless, an airport firefighting vehicle designed to put out airplane fires with little or no ability to traverse small city streets and serve as a rescue platform at structure fires or..... a mine proof assault vehicle for Wide Awake Wylie? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:09:06 AM EDT
[#33]
So now the Internet Experts not only knows what is best for the Cops, they know what is best for FD too!
Needs Repeating: Quoted:
I love hearing what police need and don't need from people who haven't worked one day in LE. Thanks, I needed a good laugh! |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:14:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.indianafiretrucks.com/pictures/marion/airport/crash/990.jpg Hey, I can play the firetruck game too. Which would be more worthless, an airport firefighting vehicle designed to put out airplane fires with little or no ability to traverse small city streets and serve as a rescue platform at structure fires Seriously? That is a great truck for a rural VFD! One of the biggest issues for rural VFD is needing big trucks than can bring their own water to the fire, have some off-road capability and good reach. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:18:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is unbelievably ridiculous.... |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:20:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now the Internet Experts not only knows what is best for the Cops, they know what is best for FD too! Needs Repeating: Quote HistoryQuoted:
So now the Internet Experts not only knows what is best for the Cops, they know what is best for FD too! Needs Repeating: Quoted:
I love hearing what police need and don't need from people who haven't worked one day in LE. Thanks, I needed a good laugh! And it also bears repeating that the cops/FD report to the people who pay their salaries, so you better be sure that we have a right to have a say in what is best for the people who we employ. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:42:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To all you Law Enforcement types that responded: The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. You asked why, we answered. Do you think its my job to absorb bullets ? Nobody is coming to take your toys with MRAPS. I likely have more firearms than you do and nobody is taking mine either and I wont participate in it. Your perception, and many out there of the new fangled buzzword " militarization " of domestic police is right out of the Alex Jones concentration camp rhetoric in my view. However he is entitled to his wrong, opinion as well as you are. I will agree with you that there are some really corrupt police departments out there, and I think corrupt cops and the department heads that cover it up should be imprisoned. Some have been. However dont assume that I'm going to drive this MRAP up to your house and demand you turn in your AR15 because not only would you be wrong, you would be an asshole for assuming I would comply with that request by my agency. Just like you don't appreciate being accused of being a screwball gun owner out to take over the government, -we- dont appreciate the broad brush being painted by some that we will simply " follow orders " and disarm the public. ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ETA: Now if you live in BOSTON or NYC, your disarmament may occur, but thats your damn fault for living in that shithole if you do.  |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:45:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And it also bears repeating that the cops/FD report to the people who pay their salaries, so you better be sure that we have a right to have a say in what is best for the people who we employ. Can you name a city in the US in the last 200 years where the folks were not allowed to do that? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:51:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a problem with police officers that call citizens, "civilians" as if they were conducting an OPFOR exercise. Me too. I dont believe this term or description of me when I'm off duty is appropriate, either. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:56:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You asked why, we answered. Do you think its my job to absorb bullets ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
To all you Law Enforcement types that responded: The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. You asked why, we answered. Do you think its my job to absorb bullets ? So, first, let me say that I am as are most of us are, grateful for the service you provide our community. Thank you! Nobody is stating that it is your job to aborb bullets or that you should not have access to light armored vehciles. But respectfully, many of us do not want an MRAP in every town. Why cannot the county sherriff and state coordinate access to light armored police vehicles as needed? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 11:58:33 AM EDT
[#41]
wait what? Why the F@$# does wylie even have a swat team?
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:03:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wait what? Why the F@$# does wylie even have a swat team? I'd assume, like many small local PDs, the SWAT members are actually part time "SWAT" and actually work other LE duties and will rely on larger PD's (Plano) if things get to much to handle. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 12:17:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd assume, like many small local PDs, the SWAT members are actually part time "SWAT" and actually work other LE duties and will rely on larger PD's (Plano) if things get to much to handle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
wait what? Why the F@$# does wylie even have a swat team? I'd assume, like many small local PDs, the SWAT members are actually part time "SWAT" and actually work other LE duties and will rely on larger PD's (Plano) if things get to much to handle. Ok that makes sense, I didn't know that they could do that. Thanks Tboy! |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 1:09:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To all you Law Enforcement types that responded: The American people have not only a right, but a responsibility, to question the militarization of America's civilian police forces. Just read any history book to understand why. Sometimes you guys forget just who you work for. dont worry we get reminded DAILY by people such as yourself. i pay taxes too, so im my own boss right 
the populace is militarizing at an astounding rate, tactical this tactical that, and you are upset that a police department with fine record of community outreach and accountability is getting a bullet proof truck FOR FREE
are you pissed because it is a military hand-me-down, if the pd spent $600,000 to have a bullet proof truck custom made it would be more to your liking? damned if you do damned if you dont |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:02:59 PM EDT
[#45]
I've not read all 4 pages of this thread. I've not served in LE - though several of my friends and family do. I have tremendous respect for law enforcement. And as long as they follow the 4th ammendment I've got no problem with them being "militarized" to an extent. I DO have a problem with no nock operations but that is another topic for another day. But seriously, an MRAP? Mine Resistant Ambush Proof vehicle? Really? What are they going to be used for, I mean seriously? This is WYLIE for crying out loud, not Watts. What, is the silocone in the breasts of all the women around here going to cause them to go mad on some sort of killing spree with IED's and RPGs? Seriously...
Where do you draw the line? What about hummers with twin ma deuces on the top or why not BFV's with 25mm cannons...that should take care of the rampant bunny population around here. I mean I just try to run them down with my F150 but I think a SAW would be so much more fun. Earl |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:18:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LA BoA? Maybe. Boston bombing and Dorner? Not so much. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
...Boston Bombing. Dorner. LA Bank of America robbery. There are numerous armed confrontations throughout our history where LE has needed some sort of mobile cover in order to protect innocents in the area and apprehend the offenders.. LA BoA? Maybe. Boston bombing and Dorner? Not so much. Dorner shot it out with police for over an hour. They did not have any armored assets and went back to hiding behind cars and trees. That is a textbook case for armor. The Boston bombing is actually a great way to utilize the V hull anti-IED capability of the MRAP. They threw several explosive devices at LE as they shot it out with them. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:20:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The militarization of police is not a sign of some massive conspiracy. However, what bothers me is the mindset that seems to develop as a PD gets more and more of these goodies. Too many police are going around thinking they're in a combat zone. You are civilians. Your job is to catch bad guys, not destroy the enemy. No knock raids, shoot first - assess later, full SWAT deployments for a guy with a knife... come on. Once you have the toys you want to use them. What's the saying? If all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail? Hmm ...... I've never shot anyone. In the last 3 years our team has only had one shooting - where someone with a rifle pointed at our team twice. The only knife wielding guy we've been dispatched to barricaded himself inside his own car after a two hour pursuit and held the knife to his own neck. Certainly not a normal LE call .... we are not a small time team, either. On average we run 50-60 operations a year. You never hear about the operations we do that go well with no uses of force. All you ever hear about is the .001% of ones that go sideways. I guess I have a hammer and no one puts any nails out for me to hit? Or how does this work.. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:28:54 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dorner shot it out with police for over an hour. They did not have any armored assets and went back to hiding behind cars and trees. That is a textbook case for armor. The Boston bombing is actually a great way to utilize the V hull anti-IED capability of the MRAP. They threw several explosive devices at LE as they shot it out with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
...Boston Bombing. Dorner. LA Bank of America robbery. There are numerous armed confrontations throughout our history where LE has needed some sort of mobile cover in order to protect innocents in the area and apprehend the offenders.. LA BoA? Maybe. Boston bombing and Dorner? Not so much. Dorner shot it out with police for over an hour. They did not have any armored assets and went back to hiding behind cars and trees. That is a textbook case for armor. The Boston bombing is actually a great way to utilize the V hull anti-IED capability of the MRAP. They threw several explosive devices at LE as they shot it out with them. Nobody is stating that police do not need access to light armor. In Southern California, my guess is that there are armored vehicles avaiable. Sometimes even the most front line Army units have to wait for support. The issue is does every small town in America need MRAP's? Why cannot the county sheriff or state police coordinate access to more appropriate light armored vehicles? |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:44:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody is stating that police do not need access to light armor. In Southern California, my guess is that there are armored vehicles avaiable. Sometimes even the most front line Army units have to wait for support. The issue is does every small town in America need MRAP's? Why cannot the county sheriff or state police coordinate access to more appropriate light armored vehicles? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
...Boston Bombing. Dorner. LA Bank of America robbery. There are numerous armed confrontations throughout our history where LE has needed some sort of mobile cover in order to protect innocents in the area and apprehend the offenders.. LA BoA? Maybe. Boston bombing and Dorner? Not so much. Dorner shot it out with police for over an hour. They did not have any armored assets and went back to hiding behind cars and trees. That is a textbook case for armor. The Boston bombing is actually a great way to utilize the V hull anti-IED capability of the MRAP. They threw several explosive devices at LE as they shot it out with them. Nobody is stating that police do not need access to light armor. In Southern California, my guess is that there are armored vehicles avaiable. Sometimes even the most front line Army units have to wait for support. The issue is does every small town in America need MRAP's? Why cannot the county sheriff or state police coordinate access to more appropriate light armored vehicles? Actually WildBill said in the above that he didn't think we needed armor, which is what I was responding to. Not every small town has MRAPs. There are two in our area and they are mutual aid items. We support other PD's and counties around us with our armor fairly regularly. I'm sure Wylie will be called upon by other neighboring agencies to use their vehicle on an as-need basis. Who cares if the SO maintains it or a smaller PD? So long as their budget supports it, it's a done deal. FYI, the DOD and state DRMO program will not issue vehicles out to agencies if there already is a piece of armor with an agency in a certain radius. |
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Posted: 4/24/2014 2:45:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've not read all 4 pages of this thread. I've not served in LE - though several of my friends and family do. I have tremendous respect for law enforcement. And as long as they follow the 4th ammendment I've got no problem with them being "militarized" to an extent. I DO have a problem with no nock operations but that is another topic for another day. But seriously, an MRAP? Mine Resistant Ambush Proof vehicle? Really? What are they going to be used for, I mean seriously? This is WYLIE for crying out loud, not Watts. What, is the silocone in the breasts of all the women around here going to cause them to go mad on some sort of killing spree with IED's and RPGs? Seriously... Where do you draw the line? What about hummers with twin ma deuces on the top or why not BFV's with 25mm cannons...that should take care of the rampant bunny population around here. I mean I just try to run them down with my F150 but I think a SAW would be so much more fun. Earl
its a bullet proof truck that was free to the city. why is it of concern what it was used for by its previous owners. was for mines and ied's, now its for,,,,bullet proof truck... its not a brad, its doesnt have chain guns, cannons, m2's, mk19s, or mortars hanging off of it. it is a bullet proof truck, no more no less.not hard to understand why it would be usefull to have around |
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