Since no one started the topic yet.

And also, the next issue of SWAT Magazine will have Edward Lawrence's feature on the 2010 BOD.



mm

I am patiently waiting for the date, without complaining even once.

oh....heya...how's the finger doing?  

m t is me on fb.


mm

I am looking forward to this year, the wife and I might give it a go.

I am running the Austin Marathon this weekend, without my pack, rifle, or sidearm.  I probably will have the carbon fiber knife on a neck chain that I have been wearing on long trail runs.  This will be my first marathon.  I would not have ever considered running one if not for successfully completing the BOD last fall.  Prior to that, the longest race I ever did was a 10k more than 25 years ago.  After a few months training, I can now bang out a 16-18 mile trail run without any problems.

I hope I'm able to do it this year. Last year I started training in April, on through the entire summer, and by the time it arrived I couldn't justify the expense.

That's one of the problems when you prepare for the BOD. You had better show up the day of the event cause it's the only day all year it will be held. I hope this year I can make it.

bump

Well Hunters Moon and Dave and I continue to get a hike in almost every weekend. I am currently training with a 30lbs training ruck that I used for my Bataan train up. No I did not do the Bataan, it is a long story.

Rapunzel I too am patiently waiting for a date.

Also have made a few changes to my gear. This year back to the AR

I'm debating on whether or not to post short basic "how to" items.  Like how to treat blisters and other first aid items.


thoughts?



mm

It couldn't hurt. Without people posting helpful information, this board is basically TMZ with guns.

I'll get something up tonight.....blisters!!!  Everyone's favorite self-inflicted wound.  There are several EMTs and EMT-Ps that know where I went to school and know who taught me...and hopefully let me know

As for first aid kits...have the bandaids and other things for boo-boos, but you'll want other stuff too.

You can do lots with gauze and tape.  REPEAT - You can do lots with gauze and tape, an Army medic, an AF PJ, and an EMT-P firefighter(who I believe is on arfcom) taught me this.  Lots of 4x4 gauze, a roll or two 2" wide gauze, some non-adherent dressings, and some fluffy stretchy stuff like Kerlix. (I like Kerlix)

Tape....duct tape will work, if that's all you have.  Paper, cloth, plastic a couple of rolls in different widths.  3M make Microfoam tape which is really neat, really sticks to skin, and is stretchy enough to be used to put pressure on a wound..but it's oh my f**g god expensive compared to other tapes..  A self-adherent wrap like Coban and such are really great at covering dressings.

I'm not gonna get into trauma dressings or chest seals like the Asherman and Bolin or any of that high speed stuff.


None of my posts can even approach what you could learn in a basic first aid class.  There are several highly rated places in TX to learn, Amer. Red Cross, Lone Star Medics, Tiger Valley, TEEX.




mm

  Is the world coming to an end again

Blisters!

Some of you apes seem to collect them as a hobby.

Small blisters:  Cut out a hole a bit larger than the blister in a piece of moleskin and place that around the blister, use as many layers as it takes to keep the shoe/sock from rubbing on it.  Do not puncture or drain small blisters if they are intact.

Large blisters:  Pierce and drain the blister, the fluid inside is inflammatory. Trim away the loose skin on the bubble of the blister.  Use an antiseptic to clean the area and wound.  Put triple antibiotic ointment over the wound and cover with a non-adherent dressing.  Do the moleskin with a hole thing again and place that around the area.  Secure everything with your roll gauze, kerlix, or self-adhering wrap...you can tape it in place too.

If you're prone to blisters and develop hotspots on your feet, you can use the moleskin with a hole to cover the area around the hotspot.  Do not put the adhesive part on the hotspot.

The main problems with blisters are they hurt and they are prone to infection.

mm

Bump and the date has been announced.

Oct. 6, 2012.

And a lady with very long hair has just informed me that it is on the same weekend as the Fallen Brethren - Gun.



mm

Want to avoid blisters?

Hike a bunch in your boots with good socks.

Socks?  I see so many people use thick socks from all different makers.  I tried this for years until I was turned onto 5.11 Tactical socks.  They are thin in areas where they need to be and thicker in others.  The key in Texas is heat, which breeds friction.  I run vented boots (they dry faster too), no GoreTex, and 5.11 socks.  

Hydropel?  Don't know what this is?  You need to.  Throw it on before you put your socks on....ZERO blisters.  

I know this works because I wrecked my feet at the first BO with thick socks and leather boots.  Every one since has been with the above setup.  No blisters.  100% finished, mostly Top 5's.


LD

I'm going to try to make it this year.

Am already signed up for thedown and dirty mud run

Thanks for the heads up on the date!  This might be the year for me.

Checkin in.  

Ive since put more thought into my bag.  Also recruited a friend.

Good thing you've been thinking about it.  If you added any more weight to it, you'd topple over.


mm

A good friend asked me what all do you carry in your bag???


I just back at him and said everything..

Not to hijack, but which 5.11 socks? I have been getting a blister on my left foot on an area on the inner ball where it meets the arch. It starts to get agitated around mile 3-4. I recently switched to 5.11's and they seemed to help but if there is a better style than what I'm using I want to know. I bought a pair of the "Level 1" socks which are 80% Coolmax or something. I also bought a three-pair-pack of the black anklets, as well which are mostly cotton.

Truth be told, I probably need a better fitting pair of running shoes, too. I went with the Reebok Zig design. I can feel the difference in the impact, but I think I may have bought too big a shoe. I got an 11" and I think I should have gone with a 10.5" so that's probably not helping either.

I'd like to do the bug out drill but I don't know if I could hack it. At 34, 5'10" and 180 lbs. of WEAK, I'd probably get my ass kicked after the first hour.

The bad news is, I won't be able to participate in this year's drill.  The good news is, I might therefore avoid self-inflicting a flesh wound in 2012! Yay!

already have 20 registered the first week.  SWAT magazine seems to help motivation and interest.  We posted a copy of the article with permission of SWAT magazine in our last news letter

TJ, are you limiting the number of competitors?

Yes, the limit this year is 60

Do I have to do it again?  Number 7 here I come.

5.11 socks.  Mine are all the hot weather socks.  Dont know which level, but I have the ones you get in a three pack as well as the single pairs they sell separately.

Not going to use the same boots I did last year.  Light, but were not kind to my feet.  May try the cross running shoes.  Works for Jody and Pickett.

Going to get my pack under 25lbs with water, ammo, and AR.....

LD

For those that bring rope–– where do i get some?

I want to complete all the challenges this year n rope is something i just dont have.

TJ, I registered myself and The Bride.  Thank you for taking care of her.  She had a great time at the Woman's Only Weekend.  She said you caught her forgetting the over-hold on CQB with the rifle.  I can definitely relate.  There must be something about stress plus that red dot that causes brain farts.  Learning that lesson, alone, is worth the price of admission.

JP, a good place to get rope online is backcountry.com as they usually have a large selection in stock.  We carry static in our packs for Tyrolian traverses, ascending, rappelling, and hauling, but one must always remember to NEVER lead climb with static as a lead fall from above protection with no stretch in the rope may kill you.  Take some climbing classes BEFORE you buy the gear.  

I like Wright Socks and Merrill Moabs.  I had no blisters or problems of any kind with my feet last year.  Nevertheless, alcohol swabs, tincture of benzoin ampules, and mole skin are always in our bags.

Hmm.....if TV would offer a 1-day rappelling class.....



mm

...at Hueco Tanks!

Just kidding...mostly...the new tower at TV would be more than adequate.  In addition, the rec centers at TAMU, UH, and many REI stores offer basic instruction.

Went to REI for some rope––- im in way over my head!  Any suggestions on what to get?

I think the one-day rappelling class (preceded by a suggested shopping list for kit) is a GREAT idea.

There are a few Rock Gyms around the metroplex. Surely they could run someone through that stuff.

Not shit! Being the end of year 2012 and that I have dropped a lot of lbs from last year, practiced some of the obstacles from last year and not wanting to
kill Myself before I have to actually bugout. I'm just going to come out and cook, poke fun, be a dick and generaly  have fun at every one else's expense! Damn I cant wait!!

What rope to buy?  Tough question.  There are many trade-offs to consider.

Back in my day (20 years ago) I did a fair bit of free climbing, sport climbing and bouldering, as well as little bit of aid, alpine, and ice climbing.  One of my old climbing friends is still in the sport.  I consulted with him about changes in gear when I was putting together GBH bags.  Obviously, my perceived need is no longer to complete many multiple-pitch free climbs, but rather more along the following lines:

1.  Get down from elevated freeways (rappel)
2.  Get across waterways or other spaces you can span with a rope (rope traverse)
3.  Get across wires or cables already spanning spaces (wire traverse)
4.  Get up a rope (ascend)
5.  Raise and lower heavy objects (hauling)

In my specific GBH planning scenario (an EMP while I am at work) I must be able to carry all my gear over 50+ miles of urban terrain in a backpack to Get Back Home.  Therefore, weight is at a premium.  There are plenty of elevated freeways and buildings over 75 feet along my GBH route, as well as deep and wide bayous that flood; I wanted a standard length (long) rope and needed to determine if my rope can be kept dry, and therefor not get really heavy.  Because the likelihood of me ever needing to actually use this particular equipment is very low, the need for durability over multiple uses was also assessed, along with my ability to safely rig anchors in hostile (to the rope) environments.  Finally, I had to decide how safe I want to be, or said differently, how much risk am I willing to take if and when I am forced to employ this particular rope?  

In the end, I wanted a very low weight, high utility (long), and therefore a relatively high risk solution. For me, that meant something that the manufacturers will not even market as a rope, a 50 meter length of BRAND NEW (never stepped on) 6mm 7.5 kN static Accessory Cord from Mammut.  This is the stuff often used to rig climbing gear, but rarely used as a primary rope except by certain lunatic alpine climbers, skiers, and paddlers.  1 kN is 224.8 pounds of force, so this static accessory cord does have a minimum breaking strength of 1,680 pounds.  I weigh 200 pounds and my gear weighs 35 pounds.  This accessory cord weighs just 22 grams per meter, while a typical 9mm static rope weighs 51 grams per meter, more than twice as much.  

Do I trust it?  My wife, sons, and I have all done multiple free rappels, Tyrolean traverses, and rope ascents on this stuff, with gear, so the answer is yes.

Do I recommend this solution for you or anyone else?  The answer is no.

Does it make sense to ruck any climbing/rescue gear?  Only you can decide.  Today's alpine harnesses, ATC devices,  nano biners, ropeman devices, alpine aiders, rescue pullies, and bat hooks are so light that the decision, for me, really just comes down to the rope's weight.  I carry all this crap and more, and only used the aiders and bat hook at last year's Tiger Valley BOD, but we never know what fate, or TJ, may have in store for us in the future.

As far as rope, I will not say that I am an expert but I do engage in some haggard backwoods rappels from time to time.  Safe is key  and climbing rope is 100% a must.

My current BO rope, harness, biners, etc. is sufficient to rappel about 35 feet down (double rope) with 100% safety.  Everything I use is specifically made for climbing but is lightweight.  I think the total weight of my rope, biners, fig8, etc. is less than 7#

Here is what I carry:

Harness
Rope 75'
Biners (screw locking lightweight aluminum) x2
Mini rescue 8
two mini pulleys
30' tube webbing
two 3' loops of webbing

You can go with the regular standard size of 7/16" which is about 3lbs per 50 feet or smaller (which I use) at 10.5mm which is about 2.4lbs per 50 feet.  Fatter rope is easier to rappel and doesn't wreck your hands.  Skinny rope is lighter but can move really fast if you are not careful.  The mini-fig8 helps with the skinny rope.  I practice with both regularly.  Be sure you know how to tie proper knots!

LD

Although you can certainly use climbing rope to rappel, it is generally agreed upon that static rope, such as for canyoneering or rescue, is much safer for rappelling than climbing ropes that are designed to stretch when you take a fall. Also, tensioning a climbing rope for a traverse can be difficult, or even impossible, depending on the distance and the amount of elongation built into the rope.

Some experts also believe that a helmet and chest harness are a 100% must.  Having worked in the hospital in Boulder for a few years, I can tell you that they are probably right.

I also agree with LD that knots are important, unless of course you are doing a body rappel that requires no knots or equipment other than a rope, which is a good skill to have, but can be painful to learn until you develop some nice callouses on your privates.

Tag for recomendations.

20 people already i guess I need to get my money in fast

TJ

Is there any precedence for returning contestants  when it comes to sign up with the 60  person cap?

Any FT Hood guys want to meet up next weekend?  Headed out to TA 23 today to break in the new pack.

Is this a competition/race or a test of you and your gear?  I've followed these threads over the last couple years and have been interested in trying it out, but (and maybe I'm alone in this),  I see all the "training" people are doing, as if for a major competition.   What are you training for?  I was under the impression that it was to replicate a real life bug out.  .  

My question: Are you training just to stay in shape, or are you in good enough shape year round to "bug out"?  Or do you just train for this once a year event just to finish?  Or do you train because it is a race?   I see there are prizes.  What are they?   Is there a cash purse?

I was always under the impression the bug out was to replicate you were isolated via EMP, urban utes blocking the roads, etc.,  in your vehicle or office and had to bug out to get back to your home and loved ones.   So you took what you had available your BOB.   Seeing some of the pictures from previous events, I'm wondering do you all carry that much gear on/about your car/office at all times for a real life bug out event 24/7?  Or its a one time event so you take everything but the kitchen sink?  If you do, do you rotate it out due to heat and cold?  How often do you check your gear/food due to weather (summer/winter)?  

Those that run the whole thing, do you do marathons also?  I think those who run the whole thing is great, and more power to you.   But for the average Joe, is this an event that is over the top and if we aren't in top physical condition we will suffer serious injury and not finish?  

I guess if its a race for top dog status I may sit out and live it vicariously through the pictures.  If its an event to test you and your gear with obstacles along the way, maybe I'll try it.  

It is a test of the person and their gear.  In the first few years, young teen to early 30 somethings made up the largest group that dropped out or could not complete an obstacle.  They were in physical shape to complete the distance and overcome the obstacle, but did not have the experience or mental aptitude to push or sometimes even attempt.  The mid 30s to 50s did overcome the obstacles or figured out a better way to do something, couple did opt of out of some of the challenges deciding and took the time penalty.  Rope traverses are a really good example of the disparity of experience and problem solving skills.

The first 2-3 years there was a prize table, but now it's more for bragging rights and the t-shirt.  But there is always the great satisfaction of completing something difficult.

On the safety brief, TJ will state that the ultimate goal is to be able to go to work the following Monday.  As with real life, if you injure yourself, you have just created a very bad situation.


mm

I've never heard of this before but it sounds like it would be a blast!

Where can I go to get some more information?

www.tigervalley.com



mm

Confront,

Listen I talk about training for the bug out because it is why I go out each weekend and walk with friends and shoot the shit and oh yeah I carry a ruck. I say I train for the BOD, but really I just use that as my excuse to maintain my fitness. I also use the event to test new equipment, or gun set ups. I by no means go out to compete and be first. I like to say i am not here to compete I am here to complete!

I am one of those who takes a penalty on the rope stuff and  some of the obstacles, as these obstacles are highly unlikely for my situation, I would in most instances have to avoid them in a real bug-out what with an 8mos. old and a wife who doesnt know the meaning of fast.

With that said  was mighty proud of going from dead last my first year to middle of the pack my second and third years. It for me is all about pushing myself and making sure I am as good once as I used to be!! LOL

We are booking on a first come first serve basis.  The order of deployment, like last year is the order of payment.  The first to register will be the first participant out the gate.  

When I started the Bug Out Drill it was based on sevearal ideas.  First, everyone talked about survival and equipment, but few seemed to test anything.  It was like shooting.  Someone steps up to our booth at a gun show and says "I'm fast", well how fast is that, really fast.  What are your times?  I don't know, but I'm fast.

The Bug Out is a challenge against yourself and your gear.  It's an evaluation as to what works and what doesn't including yourself.  We time the event and add penalties to stress the participant just like bad situations would.  If you want to know how you stand against everyone else, you worry about your time, if you don't care, you move at any pace you want, and many do.

This is a self taught event.  We don't teach anything, the contestants do.  As you move through you will see how others attempt challenges and the gear they use.  It's the best learning tool in the world.  If I were to stand in front of this group and preach about which piece of gear is best you would laugh at me, if you see one of your buddies using gear lighter, quicker and more efficient then what you are using you will re think the equipment.

The first year 3 completed the drill and 27 failed, the next year the number flipped with almost the same people in the event.

taggage

check cleared and got the confirmation email... guess Ill be in the 20's?