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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:45:53 AM EDT
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:49:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Would you mind giving me a rough synopsis. I don't feel like mulling through 11 pages.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:07:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you mind giving me a rough synopsis. I don't feel like mulling through 11 pages. I assure you, reading is not "Gay" 
Look at the bold font, Shotguns Registration Multiple Pistol Purchases Change of address Face to Face purchases and many more Worth the read  
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:45:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assure you, reading is not "Gay" Look at the bold font, Shotguns Registration Multiple Pistol Purchases Change of address Face to Face purchases and many more Worth the read Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Would you mind giving me a rough synopsis. I don't feel like mulling through 11 pages. I assure you, reading is not "Gay" Look at the bold font, Shotguns Registration Multiple Pistol Purchases Change of address Face to Face purchases and many more Worth the read Also that was an awful synopsis.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:00:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for your snarky comment I appreciate the sarcasm. Unfortunately I am at work, and obviously unlike yourself, am unable to take 10-15 minutes of my busy work schedule to read about the proposals.
Also that was an awful synopsis. Actually, I am home today but I find it amusing that you want someone else to do your reading and interpretation. You must be a Democrat. 
Have fun reading it at home.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:18:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, I am home today but I find it amusing that you want someone else to do your reading and interpretation. You must be Democrat.
Have fun reading it at home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for your snarky comment I appreciate the sarcasm. Unfortunately I am at work, and obviously unlike yourself, am unable to take 10-15 minutes of my busy work schedule to read about the proposals.
Also that was an awful synopsis. Actually, I am home today but I find it amusing that you want someone else to do your reading and interpretation. You must be Democrat.
Have fun reading it at home. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:41:01 PM EDT
[#6]
I guess you found time in your busy schedule at work.
Oh look a "14er" free-loading on NJHT At least go buy a Bronze Membership 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 1:03:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, not that I don't enjoy a good pissing contest - but let me see if I can interject a little information here:
First - there's lots of little technical changes that don't amount to much of anything (grammatical changes, changes to names of forms, things like that). "Taser" was added to the list of weapons, along with stun gun (did anyone really assume that a "stun gun" was illegal, but a "taser" wasn't?). More regulations for dealers, when applying for licenses, or adding employees to their licenses. Adds a new restriction on issuing FIDs or P2P's to someone on the terror watch list (I believe this is to conform to a law passed earlier this year) FIDs become invalid 30 days after a change of address. Of course, no mention of the LAW requiring them to issue FIDs within 30 days... Dealers must report loss of firearms within 24 (not 48) hours Clarifies what an "assault shotgun" is. Doesn't really make any substantial changes - just removes some confusion and conflicts. What was illegal yesterday is still illegal tomorrow, and what was legal yesterday is still legal tomorrow. Still what we all knew: no semi-auto shotguns with pistol grips, no semi-auto shotguns with >6 round capacity, no semi-autos with a folding or telescoping stock, no semi-autos with detachable mags. That's about it for the substance of the proposed changes. If you're a dealer, you really should read through it. If not, well... not a lot to see here. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 1:05:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, not that I don't enjoy a good pissing contest - but let me see if I can interject a little information here: First - there's lots of little technical changes that don't amount to much of anything (grammatical changes, changes to names of forms, things like that). "Taser" was added to the list of weapons, along with stun gun (did anyone really assume that a "stun gun" was illegal, but a "taser" wasn't?). More regulations for dealers, when applying for licenses, or adding employees to their licenses. Adds a new restriction on issuing FIDs or P2P's to someone on the terror watch list (I believe this is to conform to a law passed earlier this year) FIDs become invalid 30 days after a change of address. Of course, no mention of the LAW requiring them to issue FIDs within 30 days... Dealers must report loss of firearms within 24 (not 48) hours Clarifies what an "assault shotgun" is. Doesn't really make any substantial changes - just removes some confusion and conflicts. What was illegal yesterday is still illegal tomorrow, and what was legal yesterday is still legal tomorrow. Still what we all knew: no semi-auto shotguns with pistol grips, no semi-auto shotguns with >6 round capacity, no semi-autos with a folding or telescoping stock, no semi-autos with detachable mags. That's about it for the substance of the proposed changes. If you're a dealer, you really should read through it. If not, well... not a lot to see here. Once again thank you Tom for the LEO review and synopsis.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 1:06:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, not that I don't enjoy a good pissing contest - but let me see if I can interject a little information here: First - there's lots of little technical changes that don't amount to much of anything (grammatical changes, changes to names of forms, things like that). "Taser" was added to the list of weapons, along with stun gun (did anyone really assume that a "stun gun" was illegal, but a "taser" wasn't?). More regulations for dealers, when applying for licenses, or adding employees to their licenses. Adds a new restriction on issuing FIDs or P2P's to someone on the terror watch list (I believe this is to conform to a law passed earlier this year) FIDs become invalid 30 days after a change of address. Of course, no mention of the LAW requiring them to issue FIDs within 30 days... Dealers must report loss of firearms within 24 (not 48) hours Clarifies what an "assault shotgun" is. Doesn't really make any substantial changes - just removes some confusion and conflicts. What was illegal yesterday is still illegal tomorrow, and what was legal yesterday is still legal tomorrow. Still what we all knew: no semi-auto shotguns with pistol grips, no semi-auto shotguns with >6 round capacity, no semi-autos with a folding or telescoping stock, no semi-autos with detachable mags. That's about it for the substance of the proposed changes. If you're a dealer, you really should read through it. If not, well... not a lot to see here. Tom as always, you are a Gentlemen You must be off from work too. 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:39:14 PM EDT
[#10]
I thought FPID was good for life? Does this mean my FPID will no longer be valid?
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:56:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still what we all knew: no semi-auto shotguns with pistol grips, no semi-auto shotguns with >6 round capacity, no semi-autos with a folding or telescoping stock, no semi-autos with detachable mags. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:16:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So does this means no shotgun with a pistol grip and more than 6rds....or ANY shotgun with more then 6rds? And if we not allowed more than 6 rounds how is this achieved if a production shotgun can take more than 6? Does it need some pinned device like AR mags? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Still what we all knew: no semi-auto shotguns with pistol grips, no semi-auto shotguns with >6 round capacity, no semi-autos with a folding or telescoping stock, no semi-autos with detachable mags. sounds like with a pump you're ok with 6+ and a pistol grip. semi-auto is a no-no with 6+ or pistol grip. ............and a question---telescoping stock OK on a pump? my ADD didn't pick that up scanning through the mumbo-jumbo. 
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:54:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sounds like with a pump you're ok with 6+ and a pistol grip. semi-auto is a no-no with 6+ or pistol grip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
sounds like with a pump you're ok with 6+ and a pistol grip. semi-auto is a no-no with 6+ or pistol grip. Correct. Restrictions only apply to semi-auto shotguns. ............and a question---telescoping stock OK on a pump? my ADD didn't pick that up scanning through the mumbo-jumbo. Also correct. Do whatever you want to a pump-action. Collapsable stock, pistol grip, extended magazine, flash suppressor... hell, put a bayonet lug on it for that EXTRA bit of evil. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:00:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought FPID was good for life? Does this mean my FPID will no longer be valid? Well, they still are... just don't ever move. The proposed change would invalidate them 30 days after a change of address. Which is pretty much the case now... you can't buy a firearm if your DL and FID addresses don't match (most any FFL would turn you away). HOWEVER... the big change comes in the form of legal transportation. See, if your FID becomes invalid 30 days after a change of address, you are no longer legal to transport rifles and shotguns outside of the exemptions. MEANING... if you're coming back from a range, and stop for a cup of coffee, with a rifle in the car... and you're more than 30 days from changing addresses... your FID would be invalid, and you could be charged with 2C:39-5c. As usual, in NJ... you need to pick the fly shit out of the pepper to understand the potential pitfalls. "When dealing with firearms, the citizen acts at his peril". Yeah/// no shit. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 8:10:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Tom488,
No semi-auto shotguns with removable magazines allowed? What about the Siaga 12 shotgun with 5 round mags? Is this shotgun NOW illegal? RW3
Just did my research... Update: SIAGA 12 IS DOOMED! iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (THIS WILL CHANGE IT TO ONE SO GOOD BY SIAGA 12! Read #4) of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 8:51:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Still need to get out of this state. I've only been back in NJ for 4 months and have been trying to escape to PA ever since
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Posted: 12/18/2014 10:07:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HOWEVER... the big change comes in the form of legal transportation. See, if your FID becomes invalid 30 days after a change of address, you are no longer legal to transport rifles and shotguns outside of the exemptions. MEANING... if you're coming back from a range, and stop for a cup of coffee, with a rifle in the car... and you're more than 30 days from changing addresses... your FID would be invalid, and you could be charged with 2C:39-5c. Somewhat along those lines. If your FID does become invalid after you move does your ownership of those weapons become an issue? I recently moved to NJ so I am not completely versed in all the guns laws and I'm unsure if the legality of ownership is attached to the possession of an FID. I am currently awaiting the arrival of my FID (that I applied for 5 weeks ago). Meanwhile, my rifles and shotguns sit in my friends safe (he has an FID). |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:25:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somewhat along those lines. If your FID does become invalid after you move does your ownership of those weapons become an issue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somewhat along those lines. If your FID does become invalid after you move does your ownership of those weapons become an issue? No - 2C:39-6e allows you to possess firearms in your home without permits or FIDs. FIDs are required to purchase rifles and shotguns, and are required to possess them OUTSIDE of the exemptions. These exemptions include possessing them in your home, on your land, and transporting them directly to and from a range. I am currently awaiting the arrival of my FID (that I applied for 5 weeks ago). Meanwhile, my rifles and shotguns sit in my friends safe (he has an FID). It's not illegal for you to possess them in your home right now. It was actually illegal for you to give them to your friend, unless you both filled out Certificates of Eligibility for each rifle and shotgun (which I'm sure you did, so no need to comment on that aspect). See... another example of the fucked-up NJ firearms laws, making a criminal out of someone who was just trying to do the right thing, and applying logic where it has no business existing. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Believe it or not I "sold" them to him when I moved up here from Florida and transferred through an FFL so I didn't have to drive them all the way up (the movers would not take them). I felt that was the legal route (I can't say I'm 100% sure it was, but the FFL in Miami and his up here said it was ok). Now though I guess I'm stuck waiting until my FID card comes in and he can "sell" them back to me. I was really worried about not following NJ firearms laws and, not having a law degree, I didn't feel confident in just searching the internet and reading. I took what I felt were the most obvious (albeit expensive and complicated) steps. Thanks for the simple and concise explanation though, now I can hopefully pass that info on to others I know.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:16:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Believe it or not I "sold" them to him when I moved up here from Florida and transferred through an FFL so I didn't have to drive them all the way up (the movers would not take them). I felt that was the legal route (I can't say I'm 100% sure it was, but the FFL in Miami and his up here said it was ok). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Believe it or not I "sold" them to him when I moved up here from Florida and transferred through an FFL so I didn't have to drive them all the way up (the movers would not take them). I felt that was the legal route (I can't say I'm 100% sure it was, but the FFL in Miami and his up here said it was ok). Oh, ok. In that case, then yeah - you were fine. You would have also been fine to take them yourself, go straight to your new home, and keep them there (the same exemption that allows you to possess in your home, allows you to transport from one home to another while moving). But I understand logistically that would have been difficult. Now though I guess I'm stuck waiting until my FID card comes in and he can "sell" them back to me. Yes, that's also correct. Now that you're an NJ resident, you can't acquire any firearms until you have your FID card. I was really worried about not following NJ firearms laws and, not having a law degree, I didn't feel confident in just searching the internet and reading. I took what I felt were the most obvious (albeit expensive and complicated) steps. Yes. Better safe than sorry - especially in this area. Violating the laws is no joke - it can lead to YEARS of prison time. You did well. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:48:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess you found time in your busy schedule at work.
Oh look a "14er" free-loading on NJHT At least go buy a Bronze Membership
Iggy- be advised your were a hair away from the Lion_dog hammer  . You needn't been so provocative and being a "nozzle" does not promote a GOOD reason for the therealdonjohnson to want to pay for a membership. Perhaps the dude has other financial issues to deal with... we allow guest memberships to promote the sport.
Since CoC#6 would not necessarily include Democrat, I think we can read the code. So be nice. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 7:04:03 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:48:34 AM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap.
I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:02:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. Is the Colt AR15A4 legal in NJ? I figured they weren't because AR-15's are banned by name. The 6720 has a similar "AR-15A4" rollmark and that has prevented me from buying one. I figured it was safer to stick with 6920's and the "m4 carbine" rollmark. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 7:06:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the Colt AR15A4 legal in NJ? I figured they weren't because AR-15's are banned by name. The 6720 has a similar "AR-15A4" rollmark and that has prevented me from buying one. I figured it was safer to stick with 6920's and the "m4 carbine" rollmark. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. Is the Colt AR15A4 legal in NJ? I figured they weren't because AR-15's are banned by name. The 6720 has a similar "AR-15A4" rollmark and that has prevented me from buying one. I figured it was safer to stick with 6920's and the "m4 carbine" rollmark. Doh. I think you are right. The Colt AR15 was banned by name. Another makes no sense in our state.
I was really digging the retro look of the rifle. Reminded me of the rifle i used in basic and carried back in the early 80's in the guard. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 8:51:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. What do you need THAT for kid, you'll shoot your eye out! <edit - and NOW so owning page 2>
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:10:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you need THAT for kid, you'll shoot your eye out! <edit - and NOW so owning page 2> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. What do you need THAT for kid, you'll shoot your eye out! <edit - and NOW so owning page 2> Lol Yeah so much for a part of what being 18 again reminded me of.
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Posted: 12/20/2014 12:24:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doh. I think you are right. The Colt AR15 was banned by name. Another makes no sense in our state.
I was really digging the retro look of the rifle. Reminded me of the rifle i used in basic and carried back in the early 80's in the guard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. Is the Colt AR15A4 legal in NJ? I figured they weren't because AR-15's are banned by name. The 6720 has a similar "AR-15A4" rollmark and that has prevented me from buying one. I figured it was safer to stick with 6920's and the "m4 carbine" rollmark. Doh. I think you are right. The Colt AR15 was banned by name. Another makes no sense in our state.
I was really digging the retro look of the rifle. Reminded me of the rifle i used in basic and carried back in the early 80's in the guard. I know the Lower Can't have AR-15 Stamped on it... I was under the Impression that the ONLY Colt Lower Receiver that was Legal to own in NJ was the one That Is Stamped "Match Target" So Is it Legal in NJ to own a Colt Lower Receiver Marked "Colt M-4 Carbine" ??? Like this one listed on GB...Obviously WITHOUT the Collapsible stock on it...Unless it's Pinned in place. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=458994218 Or this one listed on GB...With Stock Pinned in place... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=459165330 All My AR Rifles that I have in NJ currently have Bushy Lowers on them..... With Modified Colt Uppers to keep them NJ Legal. |
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Posted: 12/21/2014 1:06:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the Lower Can't have AR-15 Stamped on it... I was under the Impression that the ONLY Colt Lower Receiver that was Legal to own in NJ was the one That Is Stamped "Match Target" So Is it Legal in NJ to own a Colt Lower Receiver Marked "Colt M-4 Carbine" ??? Like this one listed on GB...Obviously WITHOUT the Collapsible stock on it...Unless it's Pinned in place. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=458994218 Or this one listed on GB...With Stock Pinned in place... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=459165330 All My AR Rifles that I have in NJ currently have Bushy Lowers on them..... With Modified Colt Uppers to keep them NJ Legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the heads up on the new crap. I was hoping it wasn't something going to prevent me from getting a new Colt AR15A4. Is the Colt AR15A4 legal in NJ? I figured they weren't because AR-15's are banned by name. The 6720 has a similar "AR-15A4" rollmark and that has prevented me from buying one. I figured it was safer to stick with 6920's and the "m4 carbine" rollmark. Doh. I think you are right. The Colt AR15 was banned by name. Another makes no sense in our state.
I was really digging the retro look of the rifle. Reminded me of the rifle i used in basic and carried back in the early 80's in the guard. I know the Lower Can't have AR-15 Stamped on it... I was under the Impression that the ONLY Colt Lower Receiver that was Legal to own in NJ was the one That Is Stamped "Match Target" So Is it Legal in NJ to own a Colt Lower Receiver Marked "Colt M-4 Carbine" ??? Like this one listed on GB...Obviously WITHOUT the Collapsible stock on it...Unless it's Pinned in place. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=458994218 Or this one listed on GB...With Stock Pinned in place... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=459165330 All My AR Rifles that I have in NJ currently have Bushy Lowers on them..... With Modified Colt Uppers to keep them NJ Legal. Any lower is legal unless it specifically has "AR-15" stamped on it. The match target is the "post ban" equivalent of Colt's AR line. Basically it is just an AR that does not have a threaded muzzle, no bayo lug, and a fixed stock, and of course is stamped "match target". That is why the NJSP specified the match target is not "substantially identical" to a Colt AR-15. They were basically saying that the post ban configuration is OK. Since the 6920 lower is different than a Colt AR-15 (does not have AR-15 stamped on it), then it is perfectly legal to use in a post ban configuration build. Keep in mind any stock Colt 6920 is not legal in NJ without the flash hider being swapped for a welded on muzzle brake, the bayo lug being trimmed off, and the stock being fixed prior to its entrance into the state. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 8:53:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But since when does the NJSP write laws?
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:38:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But since when does the NJSP write laws? Listen peasant, you just do as you're told. Don't ask questions of your master |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 4:21:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Listen peasant, you just do as you're told. Don't ask questions of your master Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. But since when does the NJSP write laws? Listen peasant, you just do as you're told. Don't ask questions of your master Ewww, cold. We only have one NJSP here correct?
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Posted: 1/1/2015 10:54:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tom488, No semi-auto shotguns with removable magazines allowed? What about the Siaga 12 shotgun with 5 round mags? Is this shotgun NOW illegal? RW3
Just did my research... Update: SIAGA 12 IS DOOMED! iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (THIS WILL CHANGE IT TO ONE SO GOOD BY SIAGA 12! Read #4) of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; CONVERTED Saiga 12's were already doomed...."SPorter" Saiga shpotguns are still good as long as you dont possess a magazine that can hold more than 6 rounds |
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Posted: 1/2/2015 2:22:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CONVERTED Saiga 12's were already doomed...."SPorter" Saiga shpotguns are still good as long as you dont possess a magazine that can hold more than 6 rounds Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tom488, No semi-auto shotguns with removable magazines allowed? What about the Siaga 12 shotgun with 5 round mags? Is this shotgun NOW illegal? RW3
Just did my research... Update: SIAGA 12 IS DOOMED! iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (THIS WILL CHANGE IT TO ONE SO GOOD BY SIAGA 12! Read #4) of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; CONVERTED Saiga 12's were already doomed...."SPorter" Saiga shpotguns are still good as long as you dont possess a magazine that can hold more than 6 rounds I don't see that as true according to the above changing from 2 features on a semi-auto to one. The one feature would be #4 An ability to accept a detachable magazine. It says "detachable magazine" and NOTHING about rounds it can hold. Where am I reading this wrong? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE prove me wrong!!! RW3 
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Posted: 1/2/2015 4:30:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see that as true according to the above changing from 2 features on a semi-auto to one. The one feature would be #4 An ability to accept a detachable magazine. It says "detachable magazine" and NOTHING about rounds it can hold. Where am I reading this wrong? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE prove me wrong!!! RW3
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tom488, No semi-auto shotguns with removable magazines allowed? What about the Siaga 12 shotgun with 5 round mags? Is this shotgun NOW illegal? RW3
Just did my research... Update: SIAGA 12 IS DOOMED! iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (THIS WILL CHANGE IT TO ONE SO GOOD BY SIAGA 12! Read #4) of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; CONVERTED Saiga 12's were already doomed...."SPorter" Saiga shpotguns are still good as long as you dont possess a magazine that can hold more than 6 rounds I don't see that as true according to the above changing from 2 features on a semi-auto to one. The one feature would be #4 An ability to accept a detachable magazine. It says "detachable magazine" and NOTHING about rounds it can hold. Where am I reading this wrong? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE prove me wrong!!! RW3
MY Saiga has NONE of those features..except the detachable magazine..no pistol grip, no folding or telescoping stock. This...(Obviously with the small magazine) 
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Posted: 1/2/2015 5:47:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Interesting point with the Saiga 12, it is vague, you could have a 15 round magazine on an original one
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Posted: 1/3/2015 12:45:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tom488, No semi-auto shotguns with removable magazines allowed? What about the Siaga 12 shotgun with 5 round mags? Is this shotgun NOW illegal? RW3
Just did my research... Update: SIAGA 12 IS DOOMED! iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two (THIS WILL CHANGE IT TO ONE SO GOOD BY SIAGA 12! Read #4) of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; CONVERTED Saiga 12's were already doomed...."SPorter" Saiga shpotguns are still good as long as you dont possess a magazine that can hold more than 6 rounds I don't see that as true according to the above changing from 2 features on a semi-auto to one. The one feature would be #4 An ability to accept a detachable magazine. It says "detachable magazine" and NOTHING about rounds it can hold. Where am I reading this wrong? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE prove me wrong!!! RW3
MY Saiga has NONE of those features..except the detachable magazine..no pistol grip, no folding or telescoping stock. This...(Obviously with the small magazine) <a href="http://s969.photobucket.com/user/ajk07734/media/saiga12_zps5af83663.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae179/ajk07734/saiga12_zps5af83663.jpg</a> That is just my point. Your "mag" as one thing will make it illegal as I read it... My set-up is the same as yours. Straight stock and 5 round mag. Am I wrong? RW3 |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 1:32:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting point with the Saiga 12, it is vague, you could have a 15 round magazine on an original one I always read it as Semi Shotgun mags were limited at 6, whether Tube, or Detachable. And Ray, im really NOT trying to argue with you..its confusing you're reading it as only one Evil Feature makes it an AW, I;'m reading it as a rewrite to clarify (And as usual with NJ Legislation it doesnt do it well) that Only One Evil Feature is Allowed. At this point it could go either way....its time like this I really wish Schuleter was still running the Firearms Unit at NJSP..he was at least on our side of things, and even tried to make things better until he was back-doored by the AG |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 2:45:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always read it as Semi Shotgun mags were limited at 6, whether Tube, or Detachable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always read it as Semi Shotgun mags were limited at 6, whether Tube, or Detachable. The way I'm reading it, the NJSP is proposing to change the language of 13-54:1.2 to read: A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be “substantially identical,” that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:
i. (No change.) (deals with semi-auto rifles) ii. (No change.) (deals with semi-auto pistols) iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two one or more of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; They are proposing to change the definition of an "assault firearm" to include a semi-auto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine. Period. No other characteristics. I don't see any other way to interpret that. |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 2:58:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The way I'm reading it, the NJSP is proposing to change the language of 13-54:1.2 to read: They are proposing to change the definition of an "assault firearm" to include a semi-auto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine. Period. No other characteristics. I don't see any other way to interpret that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I always read it as Semi Shotgun mags were limited at 6, whether Tube, or Detachable. The way I'm reading it, the NJSP is proposing to change the language of 13-54:1.2 to read: A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be “substantially identical,” that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:
i. (No change.) (deals with semi-auto rifles) ii. (No change.) (deals with semi-auto pistols) iii. A semi-automatic shotgun that has at least two one or more of the following: (1) A folding or telescoping stock; (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of six rounds; and/or (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; They are proposing to change the definition of an "assault firearm" to include a semi-auto shotgun that can accept a detachable magazine. Period. No other characteristics. I don't see any other way to interpret that. Crap.....and of course, the Fudds arent going to give a damn because "Nobody hunts with one of those things" The head of the NJOA already chose sides when he backed Sweeney anyway. I'll pass this along to a friend who's still active in NJ2AS, and see what happens, and i'll sharpen up my letter-writing pen..not that it matters, L&PS committee is, with the exception of 2, a bastion of Antis..starting with Charles Mainor (May the fuck be ever upon him) |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 5:52:53 PM EDT
[#41]
As someone else pointed out... the NJSP is effectively re-writing the law. They're taking something that today is legal, and are proposing to make it illegal. I would think that should raise a red flag or two.
Last I knew, this was still a proposal. Who has to review it? L&PS Committee? Does it then go before the legislature? I'm not that well versed in how the NJAC works. |
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Posted: 1/5/2015 3:46:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Actually the fudds would be affected the Browning Bar semi auto shotgun has a detachable box magazine
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Posted: 1/5/2015 9:42:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone else pointed out... the NJSP is effectively re-writing the law. They're taking something that today is legal, and are proposing to make it illegal. I would think that should raise a red flag or two. Last I knew, this was still a proposal. Who has to review it? L&PS Committee? Does it then go before the legislature? I'm not that well versed in how the NJAC works. Goose-stepping anyone? I always thought the uniform, never mind. |
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Posted: 1/5/2015 1:47:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Goose-stepping anyone? I always thought the uniform, never mind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As someone else pointed out... the NJSP is effectively re-writing the law. They're taking something that today is legal, and are proposing to make it illegal. I would think that should raise a red flag or two. Last I knew, this was still a proposal. Who has to review it? L&PS Committee? Does it then go before the legislature? I'm not that well versed in how the NJAC works. Goose-stepping anyone? I always thought the uniform, never mind. Other way around actually......NJSP started in 1926 |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 1:30:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Your job as a citizen in NJ is to be an ATM machine for the corrupt politicians. You get to pay, pay and than pay some more while they decide what rights you should have.
I like how they state police gets to change laws on the fly without the state legislature voting on it. Thats a nice touch. |
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Posted: 1/7/2015 4:53:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your job as a citizen in NJ is to be an ATM machine for the corrupt politicians. You get to pay, pay and than pay some more while they decide what rights you should have. I like how they state police gets to change laws on the fly without the state legislature voting on it. Thats a nice touch. I think that has to go to the L&PS committee then to the assembly, and Senate before it passes..i dont believe they can just make those changes on the fly. That said..I remember standing out in the freezing rain in trenton with about 2500 other people to protest Changes in the firearms laws, and for our efforts the L&PS Committe put forward IIRC 27 NEW Law reccomendations. 
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Posted: 1/7/2015 8:39:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
remember standing out in the freezing rain in trenton with about 2500 other people to protest Changes in the firearms laws, and for our efforts the L&PS Committe put forward IIRC 27 NEW Law reccomendations. How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
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Posted: 1/7/2015 9:11:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
remember standing out in the freezing rain in trenton with about 2500 other people to protest Changes in the firearms laws, and for our efforts the L&PS Committe put forward IIRC 27 NEW Law reccomendations. How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
Dont get me started. or his "20-30 second" mag changes...despite the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to qualify under the AG guidelines with those mag change times |
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Posted: 1/8/2015 7:52:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
remember standing out in the freezing rain in trenton with about 2500 other people to protest Changes in the firearms laws, and for our efforts the L&PS Committe put forward IIRC 27 NEW Law reccomendations. How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
Or how about the "everybody gets 2 minutes" to state their case. Pro-gunners got 2 minutes exactly. Anti's got 3 to 5 minutes AND if you spoke up about it they threw you out (2 people were "escorted" out of "the people's hall" by the troopers for speaking up). I WAS THERE with my 2 boys 4 rows back so they could get a good idea of what "government in action" was like and it left a bad taste in their mouths to say the least. RW3
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Posted: 1/8/2015 8:22:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or how about the "everybody gets 2 minutes" to state their case. Pro-gunners got 2 minutes exactly. Anti's got 3 to 5 minutes AND if you spoke up about it they threw you out (2 people were "escorted" out of "the people's hall" by the troopers for speaking up). I WAS THERE with my 2 boys 4 rows back so they could get a good idea of what "government in action" was like and it left a bad taste in their mouths to say the least. RW3 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
remember standing out in the freezing rain in trenton with about 2500 other people to protest Changes in the firearms laws, and for our efforts the L&PS Committe put forward IIRC 27 NEW Law reccomendations. How about the time Mainor wanted to let people speak against the bill... AFTER they voted on it?!
Or how about the "everybody gets 2 minutes" to state their case. Pro-gunners got 2 minutes exactly. Anti's got 3 to 5 minutes AND if you spoke up about it they threw you out (2 people were "escorted" out of "the people's hall" by the troopers for speaking up). I WAS THERE with my 2 boys 4 rows back so they could get a good idea of what "government in action" was like and it left a bad taste in their mouths to say the least. RW3 Ray the politicians are afraid of Antis, they are not afraid of us |
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