For those on the fence going in to caucus tonight. I admire Ted not backing down from the discussion, most politicians would have walked away and not had a discussion. I agree we need to end all subsidies across the board. Enough of the government welfare and price manipulation. Free the markets, free the economy. CRUZ 2016

Just saw this in GD.  He's the man.  Will have to show this to my farmer buddies.

I dont think many farmers or rancher would agree with that and also believe with out them there wouldn't be near as many family farms and a lot more mega corporate farms

There are farms around my small town that literally get millions in subsidies.  Every farmer around here is driving a brand new vehicle, many buy several just so they don't pay more in taxes.  Why are farmers the only ones who get special treatment?   There may have been a time for it, but it certainly isn't any more.   They aren't hurting, trust me.

Or just maybe ethanol can go fk itself because burning food for fuel instead of feeding people with it is the dumbest thing ever done in the history of mankind.

I'm not a farmer, but I can tell you there are some antiquated, anger-driven opinions on ethanol.

If you want less money paying for our schools, fire/ems/police, or anything else that relies on state and local taxes, then you're on the right track. Also please do not confuse farm direct payment subsidies with ethanol blending subsidies.

One is paid to the producer via a fairly antiquated system, but is in the farm bill that your congressperson voted for. The other is a credit to oil companies to make blending mandated ethanol more profitable. I'm not going to try to sell you on the benefits of ethanol, but if you know the USDA production #', you'd see we produce far, far more than we eat.

Not to mention ethanol/corn processing is one of the most efficient things you can do with a kernel of corn. They can now steep it and extract the germ, make germ oil, germ meal, gluten meal (feed for cattle), AND ethanol. Not to mention the process is always becoming more efficient. Regardless, it's far more efficient than feeding whole kernel corn to a cow/pig/chicken.

Yes, farmers have had it pretty good the last few years. If a neighbor doing well is the ramification of ethanol mandates and soaring Chinese demand; I'm ok with that. They also went through the farm crisis of the 80's and are returning to prices below the cost of production with some tougher times coming.

I'm not confused. I don't support government subsidies period



 

I am a farmer and believe farm subsidies of any form are welfare.  I never felt right about taking the farm program welfare, and decided to exit the USDA "Farm Program" a couple of years ago.  Talk about freedom and a feeling of relief.
Almost all farmers I know consider those payments as entitlements, which is very, sad as they makes them servants of the government
Subsidized crop insurance is a perfect example.  If the government is going to pay for guaranteed revenue crop insurance for farmers, why shouldn't htey do the same for your local hardware store, grocery store, Menards, Walmart, auto dealers, quick stops, etc.  If you can't afford to pay the insurance, you probably shouldn't be in the business.
The "Farm Program" and all it's incentives (read welfare), is nothing but a carrot dangled in front to lead farmers in the direction the government wants them to go.
I could go on and on about the detrimental effects it has had on our nation, and right down to my local area, but there is not room here.

The short answer is: Armies don't march on 2x4's, used cars, and Slim Jims.

I have no issue with a position against subsidies. But taking yourself off at the knees seems like an odd place to start. Even odder for a rallying cry around someone with so much invested in oil.

I am a farmer, albeit a small one.  Last year I farmed 430 row crop acres, this year it is about 340, I had to give up some land.   I definitely agree there are antiquated, anger driven, incorrect opinions out there on ethanol.  

Fallacy #1:  We're burning our food.   Less than 11 percent of our total corn production goes for human consumption.  The rest used to become livestock feed.   Now, whatever doesn't get used domestically or exported for livestock feed is broken down at ethanol plants, and the starch is consumed for ethanol production, while the protein component comes out as "DDG" or Dry Distiller's Grains.  This is still used as livestock feed.   Very little is lost.  What is lost on most people is that there are two very basic types of corn:  Field Corn and Sweet Corn.   The vast, vast, vast majority of what you see growing in fields is NOT Sweet Corn.   It is not edible for humans the way Sweet Corn is.  The little bit that I mentioned that is for human consumption is ground into corn meal or processed into corn syrup.   Your can of Del Monte cream corn or Little Green Giant whole kernel corn is not the same stuff that we are using to make ethanol.  

Fallacy #2:  We waste fossil fuels producing ethanol, or more specifically growing the corn for ethanol.    We're going to grow the corn anyway, and before local ethanol plants started up, we trucked every last kernel all the way to Kansas City to market it.   If anything, at the farm level, we are using less fuel.  

Fallacy #3:  Farmers get huge welfare checks to farm. There have always been caps on it, I think the old cap was 900K.  Under the old program which died in 2013, I got an average of about $15 per corn base acre of subsidy.  It amounted to a little under $5,000.   With a 1/4 million operating cost, it was next to meaningless.   I for one am not one of those driving a brand new pickup.  I'm using an old 1995 Ford and praying the transmission makes it another year.   Once the wife's Subaru sells, I won't own a single vehicle newer than 10 years.   The new pickups are on the payment plan guys.. a lot of farmers are really married to their bank.   The new payment system kinda screws the farmer.  You get paid based on a formula.. if the price drops, you get a subsidy in theory, however there's a catch.. it's based on per acre revenue.   If your yield average outpaces the commodity price drop, you won't get a payment.  If the yield average sucks, chances are pretty good that commodity prices will go up, and you won't get a payment.  Our crop insurance is structured the same way, I guess at least in the government program you don't have to pay anything in aside from sticking to the NRCS conservation plan.    The real money paid out is on the insurance side of the house.   What appears to be the "subsidy" is really just a kicker for the insurance company.   They charge the farmer what we would be willing to pay anyway, and then tack on a huge write-up, which is covered by the "subsidy".   The reality is, if the subsidizing on the insurance side of the house went away, the insurance companies would have to figure out a way to operate without them without huge price hikes, we wouldn't buy the insurance at the high cost.   It would be like paying $30,000 to insure a $15,000 car, you'd come out ahead by just absorbing the risk, because the insurance couldn't possibly pay out enough to justify its cost.  

We don't hate farmers.  We understand the difference between sweet corn and field corn.  I'm also not against ethanol I'm against subsidies of ANY kind for ANY type of business.  I'm actually also in favor of wind energy and other "renewable" energy sources as long as they are viable.  What I'm against is the subsidization of them.  Some people actually do "hate" farmers because they get subsidies, but I'm not one of them.  I have friends and co workers that also farm they are good people and are not lazy.  I also understand that if we cut all subsidies for farmers and ethanol that food prices may go up, but I'm willing to take my chances with the free market and let that decide the prices of food and ethanol rather than have it manipulated.  I also have an opinion on the effect food stamps has on the price of food for the rest of us, but that is a long and different topic.  Basically I believe the out of control amount of people on food stamps is raising prices at the market for the rest of us much the same way the no health insurance folks raise the cost of health insurance for the rest of us.