Looking for a "long range" rifle ... anyone have experience with Tikka or Howa? Pros? Cons?

well well...  have i got the goods for you ol' buddy...

In for the more detailed septic response

What caliber are you considering?

Both rifles have similar accuracy, the tikka will be a lighter rifle, the howa has an integral recoil lug and are easier to bed and are a copy of a sako action. Both rifles can be fitted with boyds stocks now.
Both are really good rifles for the money.

The Tikka T3 has the Sako barrel and trigger.  Great out of the box shooter.  I believe the Tikka's are guaranteed 1moa.  Action is nice and solid. Bolt is stainless steel and has a very smooth pull. Trigger pull is very nice too.  You aren't likely to need to replace it as it is adjustable from 2-4lbs and is fairly crisp. Negative? One action size fits all. Uses a spacer block. Also, it has a lot of plastic on it. Plastic magazine, bolt shroud, and other parts. Stock is fiberglass. Very light and hollow feeling but rigid.  Overall, it has a cheap feel to it.  It is a good rifle that shoots well.  

I personally had a Tikka T3 chambered in 270 WSM for big game hunting.  The rifle drove me nuts and I dumped it as after firing three rounds my groups would wander all over the place as the thin contour barrel heated up.  Once it cooled off my groups generally settled back in for three rounds.  For the price of the rifle I was not willing to invest in a aftermarket stock which I believe may have somewhat corrected the issues I was having.  For a long range rifle I would only consider a tikka with the heavier varmint barrel which would also take care of some weight issues you might have with mitigating some recoil.

The Howa 1500 is the exact same rifle as the Weatherby Vanguard, because Howa makes them for Weatherby. These are Japanese rifles. For the money, they are pretty high quality.  These are the same rifles that Weatherby guarantees will shoot 1.5moa out of the box.  If you know the reputation of the Weatherby Vanguard you know what this rifle is capable as well.

If I was putting together a budget precision rifle build I would not select either and would end up doing a REM 700 SPS tactical AAC-SD build similar to what John did over at 8541 tactical.  

PT 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoW5bHQqgis
PT 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7uX6fJYnRw
PT 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYnM-cjlEVA
PT 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQUwzEqvQc
PT 5 -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQKcv71TGqs

I just put together a Tikka T3 CTR .308 and put it in a KRG X-Ray chassis.

How does it shoot?

If you guys aren't tracking septic has an awesome deal going on howa barreled actions as well as XLR chassis.  I haven't seen prices as good as what he is offering previously.

I've got a heavy barreled stainless Howa in .308 with a Bell & Carlson heavy stock.  It is a heavy beast!  
It's extremely accurate.  Holes inside of holes or touching at 100 yards with Hornady custom ammo.
I only wish it was lighter, and that I had the same gun with maybe a different stock in 300 win mag.  

1st round of ammo testing resulted in .7 MOA. Pulled a few shots during that test however. Have a new batch of ammo ready to test with smaller powder changes in the range that was accurate from the last test.

 

I am expecting much better than .7 MOA. I got that result with 40.8gr of h4895 in winchester .308win brass with cci 200 primers and Hornady 178gr BTHP bullets.

what do you mean by .7 moa.  how many shot groups were these.  Hell I am very happy to get .7 moa and rarely expect better but can't say I have ever had a group that I pulled some shots and still got sub moa goodness.

Little brother has a tikka t3 light and they are still great guns but I think for the price the howa with xlr will be damn near impossible to beat.

Group was .733" at 100yds, only a 3-shot group though. These were shout round robin in .3 grain increments from 40.5 to 42gr of h4895. The last two weights (41.7 & 42) recoiled to the point it was painful (zero pressure signs on the brass and quickload said near max but "safe"). Since I was shooting round robin those last two weights gave me a bit of a flinch as my collar bone took a beating and i started pulling shots a bit.



Just to note, these are the first shots fired out of this rifle. I bore sighted it, put 2 rounds down range to get the zero close, then started this test. I am hoping to do the next test tomorrow so I will post the results of that. I am loading 150rds of what ever comes out top from that test.

I looked at these same options last winter and found a ctr .260 and jumped on it and have looked back. It's shoots better then I can.

You do have a load that looks promising with that 0.7 moa group and sounds like you are on the right track by testing in smaller increments around that load.  I personally prefer 5 shot groups, but 3 is fine especially for an initial load test to narrow it down.  I would suggest using 5 round groups now that you have it narrowed down.  Do you happen to have a chronograph?  I like to chrono everything during load development which is another reason for 5 round groups it gives a little more data so you get an idea of what the extreme spread is for a particular powder charge.  Once you think you have your best load and it has a small extreme spread or standard deviation it's a good idea to test it at longer ranges before you go crazy making a bunch of rounds.  When I think I have found my best load I like to test a 5 round group at 500 yards or so and see what kind of vertical spread I'm getting.  If the load groups well at 100 yards, has a narrow extreme spread, and a real small vertical spread at 500 yards then you are golden and can start cranking out the rounds.

As far as the weight of the guns...  a persons specific uses for the rifle are always going to be a factor, but for me I'm just a target shooter not a hunter I prefer a heavy gun.  Heavy barrels maintain the poi over longer strings of fire better and they don't have as much felt recoil as a light rifle.

Rock on guys sometimes when rifles are very close in performance price can be the determining factor  I love seeing more Iowa guys get into long range shooting!

Probably 308 ...but have been doing some research on 260

Saving up for a Magneto Speed but that will be a while yet.  I have everything in QuickLoad filled in as accurately as possible down to case volume and the velocities that it is giving me are much closer than an offhanded guess.

 


My rifle weighs 11.9lbs /w mag and 5 rounds so it is not super lightweight but not a bench only gun either.




And again, a Howa put together by Septic will be a VERY nice rifle.


 

There are a few things to consider here.

 


260 works well for longer ranges but the advantages are lost if you are normally limited to shorter ranges like I am (Longest I have access to on a daily basis is 200 yds).

With 260 you are looking at about 3000rds of barrel life, with 308 double to triple that.

Finally 308 and 260 ammo and components are relatively easy to come by (other than powders...) so it comes down to specific component or ammo costs between the two.


I went with 308 as I cant regularly take advantage of the 260's abilities at range, prefer the longer barrel life, and already have a lot of components for loading 308.

Bionic,  you might want to hold off for a few months to see how the LabRadar chrono shakes out.  I like my Magnetospeed V2, but it just barely clears the brake on the Windrunner and I can't use it on my pistols and lever guns.  My Oehler 35 gets hauled out for those, but takes some beyond-the-line fiddling to set up.  Not something I like to do on a crowded range.

I am watching the reviews on Sniper's Hide come in on it. I would love to get one but I would have to convince the wife...

 


I finally got out to do another OCW test. 40.8gr ended up being the best weight. This was a 5-shot group with one flyer that I cannot explain. Discounting that shot it was sub 0.6MOA. The other weights fell between 0.9 and 1.4 MOA. I have 130rds loaded and ready for the shoot on Saturday now.






 

Was that target shot like the picture is posted or was it actually turned 90 degrees?  The reason I ask is it's important to know if that spread was a horizontal string or a vertical string.  If it was turned 90 degrees so the writing on the target faces the correct direction the flyer would be a little easier to explain as well with it most likely being a trigger jerk.

I lost track of dates...  Is the Saturday shoot you mentioned the 500 yard night vision shoot?  If it is they have card board targets at the 500 yard range as well.  I would take the opportunity to shoot a 5 round group at 500 yards on a cardboard target with a good aiming dot on it.  How it groups at 500 yards will tell you a lot more about your load.

Yep it was rotated 90* when scanned so that odd shout was down from the group.

I plan on running it as far out as possible at the night shoot on Saturday.

What's the timeline on the Howa deal that you are running? Im sure you are probably really busy. Thabks.

closing the group buy this weekend.

we're getting a ton of hits on the custom shop and what's new pages of the site, so i'm assuming people are checking that out.

I will plug this with:

 

If you are thinking about getting into long range shooting, take advantage of this Howa 1500 offer that Mike has going on right now. You will not be disappointed and will end up with a much nicer rifle than what you could do with a rem 700 without a considerable amount of time and effort!

I know I saw it listed somewhere, but I went back and the FB page and couldn't find it. Can you link me to the dealio? Might be easier to go that route vs. spiffing up the 700 (even though it's already in an AICS)

Ok.  Somewhere I have  missed the group buy on the Howa.  Can someone please fill me in?

Ya I wanted to get in on this but with a move in the works don't think it will happen !

I'd be interested in seeing the special too, anyone have a link?  I am looking to try and get into long distance shooting.

Contact Septic-Tank13 for more info.
 

Thanks for that, sounds like I need to get ahold of the guys at CCA.

Would this be a good rifle for somebody with no previous experience with precision shooting to start into that world? I've always been interested but never knew where to begin.

Yes, this gets you a very nice rifle in a very nice chassis. All you would need to supply to finish it out is a rail, scope, and ammo.

 

Yes this would be a great package

it was on the cca fb page some time ago.  if you'd like more information, we better take it off the forum.  just email me through my site sam and we'll get you fixed up.

it wasn't a gb organized here on arfcom.  you're certainly welcome to get in though.  email through my site and i'll visit with you.  it isn't appropriate for me to go over it here on the forum.  thanks!