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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:00:22 PM EDT
Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! 
Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:04:09 PM EDT
[#1]
I've been looking at the Sig 716s...
Are they any good?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:11:56 PM EDT
[#2]
This is the rifle version
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:39:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P716-SB15-Detail-Hero.jpg Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx . QUESTION: Why have all that .308 power and waste it without a full rifle? All the powder isn't even going to be burned before the bullet leaves the barrel. Doesn't it make more sense to build an AR15 Pistol in 300 Blackout with the Sig SB15 brace with an 8 to 12 inch barrel? Its WAY cheaper, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 round magazines available, no SBR paperwork (make sure you NEVER put a foregrip on the rail as that makes it an SBR and not a pistol), and the number of rounds that can be used to kill hogs in 300BLK are plentiful. All the powder will be used so no fireball out the barrel using the 12 inch 300BLK barrel. Just a thought. Although the P716 is very cool, I could do a lot with the $1600 left over after the 300BLK pistol build. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 5:57:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P716-SB15-Detail-Hero.jpg Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx You can build an equal or better rifle for a lot cheaper. Edit to add: My bad, I meant pistol. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:05:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. QUESTION: Why have all that .308 power and waste it without a full rifle? All the powder isn't even going to be burned before the bullet leaves the barrel. Doesn't it make more sense to build an AR15 Pistol in 300 Blackout with the Sig SB15 brace with an 8 to 12 inch barrel? Its WAY cheaper, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 round magazines available, no SBR paperwork (make sure you NEVER put a foregrip on the rail as that makes it an SBR and not a pistol), and the number of rounds that can be used to kill hogs in 300BLK are plentiful. All the powder will be used so no fireball out the barrel using the 12 inch 300BLK barrel. Just a thought. Although the P716 is very cool, I could do a lot with the $1600 left over after the 300BLK pistol build. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P716-SB15-Detail-Hero.jpg Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx . QUESTION: Why have all that .308 power and waste it without a full rifle? All the powder isn't even going to be burned before the bullet leaves the barrel. Doesn't it make more sense to build an AR15 Pistol in 300 Blackout with the Sig SB15 brace with an 8 to 12 inch barrel? Its WAY cheaper, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 round magazines available, no SBR paperwork (make sure you NEVER put a foregrip on the rail as that makes it an SBR and not a pistol), and the number of rounds that can be used to kill hogs in 300BLK are plentiful. All the powder will be used so no fireball out the barrel using the 12 inch 300BLK barrel. Just a thought. Although the P716 is very cool, I could do a lot with the $1600 left over after the 300BLK pistol build. Because why NOT? While I agree that there will be some loss in performance out of the short barrel, it still has more power than a 300blk in the same configuration. It's a trade off for the short barrel that easier to carry through the woods while it still has plenty of knock down. I'm curious how it groups out to 200 yrds. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:05:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can build an equal or better rifle for a lot cheaper. Edit to add: My bad, I meant pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P716-SB15-Detail-Hero.jpg Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx You can build an equal or better rifle for a lot cheaper. Edit to add: My bad, I meant pistol. Yep, ask Ytka how much is in that 300blackout pistol of his. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:20:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Atlantic Firearms has one for $1789
https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/sig716-308-pistol-with-stabilizing-brace-detail.html?Itemid=0 It'd be just barely cheaper to build one for less than that. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:14:04 PM EDT
[#8]
I just built up a 12.5" AR10 SBR. Can't wait to get it to the range.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 2:21:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Atlantic Firearms has one for $1789 https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/sig716-308-pistol-with-stabilizing-brace-detail.html?Itemid=0 It'd be just barely cheaper to build one for less than that. 
You're fucking high. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 2:54:26 AM EDT
[#10]
I was looking at the 716 rifle and thought I wanted one until I got to handle it. Without a scope or magazine, it felt fairly weighty and I am used to carrying heavy weapons. I realize that any .308 will be heavier than an M4 and what you are looking at is a pistol. All that said, if it's what you want, I would be the last person to tell you don't get it. That's why I didn't work out at any of those "Anonymous" clubs I joined, I'm a facilitator, not a preventer. I am currently doing my own build that I will post up once all the parts get in and I get back to put them all together. Good luck with it and enjoy it.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 3:18:49 AM EDT
[#11]
hog gun:
(not mine, but sure nice) |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:38:28 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're fucking high. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Atlantic Firearms has one for $1789 https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/sig716-308-pistol-with-stabilizing-brace-detail.html?Itemid=0 It'd be just barely cheaper to build one for less than that.
You're fucking high. Prove me wrong then. You can't. Matched upper and lower = $500 LPk = $80 10.5" 7.62.x 51 stainless barrel = $300 sig brace = $200 Hand guard / quad rail = $250-$300 BUIS = $200 Are you tracking so far? Just what I listed is barely under what a complete gun is already built. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:57:51 AM EDT
[#13]
The sig brace is $125 or less street price , Buy it , but I will stick with my 45-70
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:50:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: . QUESTION: Why have all that .308 power and waste it without a full rifle? All the powder isn't even going to be burned before the bullet leaves the barrel. Doesn't it make more sense to build an AR15 Pistol in 300 Blackout with the Sig SB15 brace with an 8 to 12 inch barrel? Its WAY cheaper, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 round magazines available, no SBR paperwork (make sure you NEVER put a foregrip on the rail as that makes it an SBR and not a pistol), and the number of rounds that can be used to kill hogs in 300BLK are plentiful. All the powder will be used so no fireball out the barrel using the 12 inch 300BLK barrel. Just a thought. Although the P716 is very cool, I could do a lot with the $1600 left over after the 300BLK pistol build. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Perfect for toting around in the dark in thick woods! https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P716-SB15-Detail-Hero.jpg Item NumberP716-12B-PSB Caliber7.62 X 51 mm NATO Overall Length30.2 in / 767 mm Rifling1 in 10" / 25.4 in 254 mm Number of Grooves6 Barrel Length12.5 in / 317.5 mm Weight w/out Mag8.6 lbs / 3.90 kg Mag Capacity10 Rounds Accessory RailYes FeaturesShort stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve, Quick-Detachable Ambi-Sling Mounts, Flip-Up Front and Rear Iron Sights, Ambidextrous Magazine Release MSRP$2,252.00 CA CompliantNo MA CompliantNo https://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p716-12-psb.aspx . QUESTION: Why have all that .308 power and waste it without a full rifle? All the powder isn't even going to be burned before the bullet leaves the barrel. Doesn't it make more sense to build an AR15 Pistol in 300 Blackout with the Sig SB15 brace with an 8 to 12 inch barrel? Its WAY cheaper, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60 round magazines available, no SBR paperwork (make sure you NEVER put a foregrip on the rail as that makes it an SBR and not a pistol), and the number of rounds that can be used to kill hogs in 300BLK are plentiful. All the powder will be used so no fireball out the barrel using the 12 inch 300BLK barrel. Just a thought. Although the P716 is very cool, I could do a lot with the $1600 left over after the 300BLK pistol build. Putting a vertical fore grip on a pistol under 26" in overall length would make it an AOW not a SBR. If the "pistol" is over 26" in length then the ATF considers that a "firearm" not a pistol. The ATF uses 26" as the maximum length a firearm can be and still be concealed. There are also Georgia statues as well. Georgia considers a pistol to have a barrel less than 12" in length. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 7:37:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Your velocity with a 150gr bullet out of a 10" barrel is going to be between 2200-2300fps. You're getting into .300BLK territory at that point. You could build the BLK with a 10" barrel and have a more compact weapon than the 716 or go with a 12" and be about the same length. There is absolutely no practical use for a 10" barrelled .308 except as a range toy. You're going to have excessive muzzle flash and blast. That's it.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 8:32:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Looks like a .308 using a 150g HPBT 2273 FPS out of a 10" barrel burning 90% of the powder with 1721 ft lbs. 14" is 2531 FPS with 2133 ft lbs and burning 95% of the powder.
300 blk gets 1976 FPS using a 150g FMJBT. Looks like my pipe dream might be dead with numbers that close unless I can find a 14" 7.62x51 barrel. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 9:17:26 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:03:07 AM EDT
[#18]
If you like it, that is all that matters.
Having said that, If you're looking for validation, I can't see it. I am currently building a Blackout for way less as a suppressed shorty hog gun. I recently purchased the DPMS Gen II .308 Hunter for my main pig/deer/whatever and FLIR platform. 18.5" barrel with suppressor adaptor for Saker 7.62 (currently paid for and witing for stamp). It weighs 7 lb 14 oz minus mag and optics. Runs great, not a single jam or issue yet, very accurate. I added the MI rail, Saker FH, and a Syrac adj gas block . The stock trigger is great. Nearly a grand cheaper with rebate. I love it. I'll bring it to the HTF shoot. 
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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:21:39 PM EDT
[#19]
I'll be slinging the 9.3x62 at hogs. 286gr at 2400fps/3800+ ft.lbs
9.3x62, 30-06, 8x57, 6.5x55, .308 
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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:44:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you like it, that is all that matters. Having said that, If you're looking for validation, I can't see it. I am currently building a Blackout for way less as a suppressed shorty hog gun. I recently purchased the DPMS Gen II .308 Hunter for my main pig/deer/whatever and FLIR platform. 18.5" barrel with suppressor adaptor for Saker 7.62 (currently paid for and witing for stamp). It weighs 7 lb 14 oz minus mag and optics. Runs great, not a single jam or issue yet, very accurate. I added the MI rail, Saker FH, and a Syrac adj gas block . The stock trigger is great. Nearly a grand cheaper with rebate. I love it. I'll bring it to the HTF shoot. http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/loftusj/DPMS%20G2/g2p13_zps22a61f2b.jpg Awesome - I'm looking forward to seeing your rifle RamblinWreck. I've been following your thread(s?) about this rifle because I want to build up something similar. Like you I've got a Saker 762 in NFA jail. In my case, I blew the last of my funny money on the suppressor and will have to wait until ~March to get the rifle. I was originally looking at the Recon because of the mid-length gas system and was going to have Adco re-profile the barrel, but I really like what you've done to your Hunter. -bob |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:49:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be slinging the 9.3x62 at hogs. 286gr at 2400fps/3800+ ft.lbs 9.3x62, 30-06, 8x57, 6.5x55, .308 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/9.3X62-30-06-8X57-6.5X55-308.JPG Probably a bit overkill for hogs.... or anything else in North America for that matter, except Kodiaks and Polar bears. -bob |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 1:12:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like a .308 using a 150g HPBT 2273 FPS out of a 10" barrel burning 90% of the powder with 1721 ft lbs. 14" is 2531 FPS with 2133 ft lbs and burning 95% of the powder. 300 blk gets 1976 FPS using a 150g FMJBT. Looks like my pipe dream might be dead with numbers that close unless I can find a 14" 7.62x51 barrel. Can't use a 14 inch barrel as its no longer a PISTOL! Which is why I have been saying you are $1400 better off building a Killer 300 Blackout Pistol. 308 with less then an 18 inch barrel is a waste of a 308 and a huge waste of money! If one wants nice fireballs when one shoots, get a Kel Tec PMR 30. Aero Precision M4E1 Upper with Keymod rail and AP Lower = $350 Wilson Combat 11 inch SS Barrel = $275 MOE LPK = $45 Sig SB15 with Gen 2 Pistol tube, buffer spring, and buffer = $155 MagPul MBUS = $90 A really nice Hog Killing Pistol for $915 and plenty of money left over for a really nice Optic and ammo! And ALL ones AR15 Accessories (mags, optics, BUIS, rails, BCG, etc) work with this pistol as long as its legal to have on the AR pistol as configured IE no uppers over 12 inches, no vertical foregrips, etc...... |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 1:52:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. There is no overkill. There is just open fire and reloading. Noobs.... gotta teach them everything! |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 2:37:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no overkill. There is just open fire and reloading. Noobs.... gotta teach them everything! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. There is no overkill. There is just open fire and reloading. Noobs.... gotta teach them everything! Word |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:56:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably a bit overkill for hogs.... or anything else in North America for that matter, except Kodiaks and Polar bears. -bob Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll be slinging the 9.3x62 at hogs. 286gr at 2400fps/3800+ ft.lbs 9.3x62, 30-06, 8x57, 6.5x55, .308 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/9.3X62-30-06-8X57-6.5X55-308.JPG Probably a bit overkill for hogs.... or anything else in North America for that matter, except Kodiaks and Polar bears. -bob Reports from long time users of the 9.3 are that there is little meat damage despite yielding quick kills, even on whitetails. It recoils like a .308. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 6:51:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. 
She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 7:19:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/P1010010.jpg She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/P1010010.jpg She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same.
How's that thing shoot Dave? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:40:49 AM EDT
[#29]
bet with that short barrel
it's gonna be LOUD
clown |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:30:28 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/P1010010.jpg She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/P1010010.jpg She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same. Is that a RRA? Was looking at a few good deals on those is actually what sparked the bug. Also interested in how it shoots. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 5:24:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How's that thing shoot Dave? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Overkill? Never heard of it, could you please define? Thank you.
ETA: I've been thinking about a .458 SOCOM myself. Anybody have one that they like/love, or is it a hype thing. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/DaveDS/P1010010.jpg She's getting a make-over this weekend. Only the bolt and barrel will be the same.
How's that thing shoot Dave? Shoots sub-MOA @ 100yds 5 shot groups with 300gr REM HP/CCI 350/Starline Brass/34, 34.5 & 35gr of H110 Scope Used: SIMMONS AETEC 2.5-10x44mm {JAPAN manf} That scope is now on my brother's Remmington 597M .22mag. His 597M is sub-MOA will all 33gr Poly tipped fodder. It's all made by Hornady regardless of the name on the box. It was hand built by Marty ter Weeme in 2002 during the first unauthorized ARFCOM 458 SOCOM GP that I accidently started with Marty. That is long before RRA got in the mix. _____________________________________________ I gave my Dad a shower and cooked for him tonight. SO!!!, I won't put the 458 S back together till tomorrow. I will lay out all the new parts for pics and then do assembly. There are some crazy people down Carrollton way that I need to hook up with for artwork and cerakote detailing on the new lower. Also have an upper that I need to assemble that has a 24" pipe [justinwilsonvoice] gawr-on-teed [/justinwilsonvoice] 0.5MOA. It's lower also needs to go to those crazies down south. It will have a melonited gas tube that is not in the pic: 
I don't keep ARs that don't start out sub-0.75" @ 100yds. When they start opening to 1" @ 100yds I rebarrel or sell them. ________________________________________________________ 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:10:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Tell ya what......if you bring me a pig......I'll let you try a DI 10mm AR........
 ........I'm putting one together on a Bazooka Brothers lower with greasegun mags.....
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:01:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tell ya what......if you bring me a pig......I'll let you try a DI 10mm AR........ ........I'm putting one together on a Bazooka Brothers lower with greasegun mags.....I've always wanted a 10mm or 357 sig Carbine...although I am not entirely sure why?  |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:14:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always wanted a 10mm or 357 sig Carbine...although I am not entirely sure why?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tell ya what......if you bring me a pig......I'll let you try a DI 10mm AR........ ........I'm putting one together on a Bazooka Brothers lower with greasegun mags.....I've always wanted a 10mm or 357 sig Carbine...although I am not entirely sure why?
Because gun? Only reason I need! |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:51:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always wanted a 10mm or 357 sig Carbine...although I am not entirely sure why?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tell ya what......if you bring me a pig......I'll let you try a DI 10mm AR........ ........I'm putting one together on a Bazooka Brothers lower with greasegun mags.....I've always wanted a 10mm or 357 sig Carbine...although I am not entirely sure why?
There's a guy here in Macon that makes ar uppers in 45 acp and 40 cal. And he's talking about production in 10mm as well. No joke. I've shot the 45 and it's damn sweet. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:28:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Ohhhhhhhhh- that's sweet
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