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Gentleman4561
LEEEEERRRROOOOOYYYYY
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:36:51 AM
This was cross posted all over Arfcom in at least 5 different places so most of y'all have probably seen it. I just don't get what is so special about this gun. Sure its got a cool rail, not like we already have 10 others on the market that do the same thing. The trigger is nice. But what makes it worth over 2 grand? Would any of y'all pay that for this gun? And WTF is up with this video? Guys running around with paintball masks on?


Clean Team

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A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. - George Patton
New4John
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:52:24 AM
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
But what makes it worth over 2 grand?


I don't know if it makes it worth over $2k, but what makes it cost over $2k is simple business strategy.
1. Put names behind it for the Kool-Aid kids
2. Put designs & products on it that are one of kind and so unique that you can't get them elsewhere or on other products.
poison123
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Posted: 12/10/2012 12:00:13 PM
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
Guys running around with paintball masks on?


Did you not notice they were running simunitions at the end?
Gentleman4561
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Posted: 12/10/2012 12:10:23 PM

Originally Posted By poison123:
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
Guys running around with paintball masks on?


Did you not notice they were running simunitions at the end?

Yes I did. But what does that have to do with the quality of the rifle? Hell at least its cheaper than his buddy Costas rifle from LaRue.
Clean Team

My Youtube Channel: youtube.com/Gentleman4561

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week. - George Patton
poison123
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Posted: 12/10/2012 12:35:29 PM
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:

Originally Posted By poison123:
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
Guys running around with paintball masks on?


Did you not notice they were running simunitions at the end?

Yes I did. But what does that have to do with the quality of the rifle? Hell at least its cheaper than his buddy Costas rifle from LaRue.


You asked the question of why some had paintball masks on. I was answering that.
Lowtrac
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Posted: 12/10/2012 12:38:07 PM
In before "what's your life worth?"

robpiat
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Posted: 12/10/2012 12:54:13 PM


Merchandising!!
rscott2214
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:03:08 PM
lol.....i was thinking the same thing

Originally Posted By poison123:
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:

Originally Posted By poison123:
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
Guys running around with paintball masks on?


Did you not notice they were running simunitions at the end?

Yes I did. But what does that have to do with the quality of the rifle? Hell at least its cheaper than his buddy Costas rifle from LaRue.


You asked the question of why some had paintball masks on. I was answering that.


“Most people are only alive because it’s illegal to shoot them.”

CovertChannels
Too much crap, not enough fans....
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:12:12 PM
I have quite a few ARs that are $2,000. Look at LaRue rifles, all of them are $2,000+ even the DI guns running 5.56. Most LWRCs are $2,000+ as well. If you look at Pat Roger's BCM rifle, it isnt' anything special and it is $2,000 as well.

It seems that any rifle with somones name attached to it is going to cost $1800-$3000 just because they know they can get it. Better to start high and put it on sale later if if doesn't sell. If you list it too cheap and sell out in a week, you left a lot of money on the table.
I do my best to believe the crap in your posts.....
bmick325
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:54:19 PM
It seems like these guys are pimping some new carbine every few months.
RIP eodtech 2000
wtturn
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Posted: 12/10/2012 1:56:12 PM
If I were going to spend ~$1900 on an AR, I would go ahead and save an extra two months and get a SCAR.

But that's just me.
Jesus stands at the door and knocks, He doesn't kick down your door, shoot your dog, handcuff you and your family and demand obedience. - Wobblin-Goblin
Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:39:55 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2012 2:41:50 PM by Mad-Machinist]
Meh....If I was gonna spend 2 grand on an AR.....I'd buy an upper reciever and charging handle from Range Tool.....A TM lower, a nice barrel blank from one of several vendors and an extension from Whitworth tool, a bolt from Barnes Precision.......a good milspec LPK that could be fitted/polished and probably a magpul adjustable stock.....and a Midwest industries GEN II SS series free float rifle length handguard and a set of rail mounted BUIS to be determined......and put a grand+ back in my pocket
and get to work in the shop and build it.....I can assure you...any barrel I make is a hell of a lot more concentric and on spec that the production barrels they are pulling out of the crate where they came from what ever manufacturer made that months run of them......

Honestly I'd probably go with a Green Mountian blank as I have had exceptional results with every one I have used......I've had a .45 ACP upper shooting 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards out of a GM barrel.......and a 1/12 twist 5.56 I built for a friend will shoot 1/2 MOA all day long.......

The point I'm making is the average Joe with a little research and a little work can build a rifle that will rival any of these 2k AR's for a HELL of a lot less.......

I nearly go into hysterics laughing when I look at the latest crop of flash supressors/muzzle breaks on the market and the associated prices......90 % of the innnovations I see on the market are just clever marketing......couple years back I did a compensator for a friends Glock 22 that was so effective we had to put a 13 pound recoil spring in it to make it cycle.......and it had less muzzle flip with major power factor loads than a Ruger 22 pistol.....

Damn......think I shut up now and eat my McRib........
feeling_infringed
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:41:12 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2012 2:43:03 PM by feeling_infringed]
Originally Posted By Gentleman4561:
But what makes it worth over 2 grand? Would any of y'all pay that for this gun?


Personally, I don't need another AR, so no.

Add up the price of an itemized listing of ALL the add on parts and how close do you get to $2k? Geisselle super modular rail has an msrp of $350+, how much do the trigger, sights, stock, flashlight, thorntail mount, bcm charging handle, end plate, grip, new whizz bang bcm comp etc.... all cost? I'd bet you'd get pretty close to $2k overall rather quickly. Any difference in cost and call it paying for kool aid or the price of convenience, does it really matter...

Bottom line, don't like it, don't buy it, but I bet many people will.

Glad to see another offering on the market even if I won't be purchasing it.
"...... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
^ Why is that so effing hard for some people to understand....
kylestyle
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:19:23 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2012 3:21:18 PM by kylestyle]
this is kind of like Haley's glock skimmer trigger, overpricing on something that is accessible else where for cheaper

he and Costa's product whoring has got a little out of hand
strycnine
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:58:55 PM
Damn, wrong thread

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coastal_shredder
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Posted: 12/10/2012 5:07:29 PM
Welcome to the goodie room.

"Hell, if I wanted schooling, I'd have gone to school!" -Jayne Cobb
strycnine
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Posted: 12/10/2012 6:16:10 PM
Originally Posted By coastal_shredder:
Another spin on this






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p0p0k0pf
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Posted: 12/10/2012 7:35:09 PM
Yep- dripping with marketing and will likely net the makers a tidy margin, almost like they planned it that way. You can't rape the willing!
Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 12/10/2012 8:16:25 PM
Although I do always seem to forget the 11% off the top BATF excise tax for complete guns........it really dosen't help the margin....
BillyPumper
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
Pass
telsonman
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Posted: 12/10/2012 11:59:16 PM
Do they think they are seals or SFOD-D or something?

I'd rather use that money on my mortgage.
votefromrooftops
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Posted: 12/11/2012 7:41:11 AM
so is BCM not a quality manufacturer any longer because it looks like they assembled a rifle with all first rate parts to me, is it worth 2k to someone that wants a top shelf BCM rifle it is. Rainier Arms sells a rifle on par by the specs. for 1,400 if i remember right and that's priced right imho. just a thought, nobody here bitches about Larue, Noveke, etc... prices when they sell their rifles. i understand ARFCOM is couche commando central, but for the guy that starts out and buys a DPMS rifle, everyone corrects him, then a well established company known for Colt quality weapons comes out with a new rifle, then everyone that will buy one is a sucker i'm sure when you guys see someone with Starbucks coffee, the arguement is made to said coffee drinker that McD's has just a good a coffee and that they are paying to much, right lol at all of this

i'm seriously asking here
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Mad-Machinist
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Posted: 12/11/2012 9:14:35 AM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2012 9:20:03 AM by Mad-Machinist]
I never said BCM wasn't a quality manufactureer...I just know I can and HAVE built rifles of similiar or better quality for significantly less money....I'm just one of those people who isn't impressed by brand names...everyone talks about how great so and so bolt carrier is......I buy them from a company that makes 30,000 a month and that is ALL they make, and I can sit down with measuring equipment and check them...they are consistently dead nuts on spec and far more concentric than any other carrier I have ever tested. I just see in a lot of cases where people on this and other forums equate clever marketing with quaility...it ain't necessarily so........
bhintz10
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Posted: 12/11/2012 9:44:51 AM
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
I never said BCM wasn't a quality manufactureer...I just know I can and HAVE built rifles of similiar or better quality for significantly less money....I'm just one of those people who isn't impressed by brand names...everyone talks about how great so and so bolt carrier is......I buy them from a company that makes 30,000 a month and that is ALL they make, and I can sit down with measuring equipment and check them...they are consistently dead nuts on spec and far more concentric than any other carrier I have ever tested. I just see in a lot of cases where people on this and other forums equate clever marketing with quaility...it ain't necessarily so........


What company for the BCG?
marshjr
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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:00:36 AM
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
I never said BCM wasn't a quality manufactureer...I just know I can and HAVE built rifles of similiar or better quality for significantly less money....I'm just one of those people who isn't impressed by brand names...everyone talks about how great so and so bolt carrier is......I buy them from a company that makes 30,000 a month and that is ALL they make, and I can sit down with measuring equipment and check them...they are consistently dead nuts on spec and far more concentric than any other carrier I have ever tested. I just see in a lot of cases where people on this and other forums equate clever marketing with quaility...it ain't necessarily so........


Most of us dont have the background and ability that you do though, so it can sometimes be tough to separate whats real and whats a gimmick.
votefromrooftops
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Posted: 12/11/2012 10:12:25 AM
Originally Posted By Mad-Machinist:
I never said BCM wasn't a quality manufactureer...I just know I can and HAVE built rifles of similiar or better quality for significantly less money....I'm just one of those people who isn't impressed by brand names...everyone talks about how great so and so bolt carrier is......I buy them from a company that makes 30,000 a month and that is ALL they make, and I can sit down with measuring equipment and check them...they are consistently dead nuts on spec and far more concentric than any other carrier I have ever tested. I just see in a lot of cases where people on this and other forums equate clever marketing with quaility...it ain't necessarily so........


i guess i didn't make myself clear, my point was seems there's alot of pounding on BCM because their rifle is at the 2k mark, when other top companies sell for the same and noboby says anything about them. that's why i said something about Rainier Arms having a rifle with VERY similiar specs at about 500 bucks cheaper.

i agree with your example of the rifle you could assemble from other quality parts, and saving cash, that's what i've been attempting to do for a while now. i also like the pride when a rifle turns out well. i don't think anyone is questioning BCM and their level of quality, i just think they have set a level of quality and now can charge for it, IF the consumer wishes to pay for said name. people around here have been paying for LaRue and Noveske and they charge a premium, nobody says a word because it's understood the level of quality is there, i just fail to see the difference from one quality company to the next. that's all i'm saying
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