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Link Posted: 9/12/2014 3:37:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background
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Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 4:21:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 5:07:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?


I have had ffl say they didn't care if you had CCH permit.  They wanted to run NICS check anyway.  This was on KS side.  Their business, their rules..... I just choose to buy elsewhere.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 6:20:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?


That is correct, we never have been able to.  It is part of this bill 656, so when the law goes into effect (10/12/2014) you can do it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 2:28:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?



I'm not seeing anything in the law at all that specifically exempts CCW permit holders from NICS checks.
On page 12 of the actual bill, starting at Line 9, I see this:

9.......Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background
13 Check under federal regulations currently codified under 27 CFR
14 478.102(d) relating to the transfer, sale, or delivery of firearms from
15 licensed dealers.


This appears to leave the option open at a later date for CCW permit holders to be exempt from NICS checks, but AFAIK, unless specifically stated otherwise, FFL's are still required by Fed Law to perform NIC's checks when selling a firearm.

If I'm incorrect, somebody please feel free to educate me otherwise and please post a link or a citation showing this.

Personally, I'd be much happier if a CCW permit negated the need for NICS checks when purchasing a firearm from an FFL, but I'm not aware of anyway that an FFL could get around doing so currently.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:19:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I'm not seeing anything in the law at all that specifically exempts CCW permit holders from NICS checks.
On page 12 of the actual bill, starting at Line 9, I see this:

9.......Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background
13 Check under federal regulations currently codified under 27 CFR
14 478.102(d) relating to the transfer, sale, or delivery of firearms from
15 licensed dealers.


This appears to leave the option open at a later date for CCW permit holders to be exempt from NICS checks, but AFAIK, unless specifically stated otherwise, FFL's are still required by Fed Law to perform NIC's checks when selling a firearm.

If I'm incorrect, somebody please feel free to educate me otherwise and please post a link or a citation showing this.

Personally, I'd be much happier if a CCW permit negated the need for NICS checks when purchasing a firearm from an FFL, but I'm not aware of anyway that an FFL could get around doing so currently.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so that means as of oct 11 or oct 12 no more NICs checks for CCW holders?

this could be bad for those of us that get delays i have passed on deals before since i didn't feel like the hassle of the delay.



I think this is the part causing confusion.
Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background


Just means you have to have a valid permit.  They are 5 years now, so if you don't renew your permit and it is 6 years from the last time it was issued and you try to use it when buying from an FFL, then it can't be used for an exception to the nics check.


I have never been exempted from the NICS check.  I didn't think MO's permit qualified for an exemption for some reason?



I'm not seeing anything in the law at all that specifically exempts CCW permit holders from NICS checks.
On page 12 of the actual bill, starting at Line 9, I see this:

9.......Although the permit is
10 considered valid in the state, a person who fails to renew his or her
11 permit within five years from the date of issuance or renewal shall not
12 be eligible for an exception to a National Instant Criminal Background
13 Check under federal regulations currently codified under 27 CFR
14 478.102(d) relating to the transfer, sale, or delivery of firearms from
15 licensed dealers.


This appears to leave the option open at a later date for CCW permit holders to be exempt from NICS checks, but AFAIK, unless specifically stated otherwise, FFL's are still required by Fed Law to perform NIC's checks when selling a firearm.

If I'm incorrect, somebody please feel free to educate me otherwise and please post a link or a citation showing this.

Personally, I'd be much happier if a CCW permit negated the need for NICS checks when purchasing a firearm from an FFL, but I'm not aware of anyway that an FFL could get around doing so currently.


Hey Max,  Here is the wording of 27 CFR 14 478.102(d)

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.102

(d)Exceptions to NICS check. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply if

(1) The transferee has presented to the licensee a valid permit or license that—

(i) Allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm;

(ii) Was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and

(iii) The law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law: Provided, That on and after November 30, 1998, the information available to such official includes the NICS;

(2) The firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR part 479; or

(3) On application of the licensee, in accordance with the provisions of § 478.150, the Director has certified that compliance with paragraph (a)(1) of this section is impracticable.

(e) The document referred to in paragraph (d)(1) of this section (or a copy thereof) shall be retained or the required information from the document shall be recorded on the firearms transaction record in accordance with the provisions of § 478.131.


************************************
FFL will simply make a copy of your CCW, instead of calling in for a nics check.  I did a write up on this a while back, but it looks like it has moved to archive...you might find it there.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:23:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Here is the second part:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.131

§ 478.131Firearms transactions not subject to a NICS check.
(a)

(1) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer whose sale, delivery, or transfer of a firearm is made pursuant to the alternative provisions of § 478.102(d) and is not subject to the NICS check prescribed by § 478.102(a) shall maintain the records required by paragraph (a) of this section.

(2) If the transfer is pursuant to a permit or license in accordance with § 478.102(d)(1), the licensee shall either retain a copy of the purchaser's permit or license and attach it to the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, or record on the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, any identifying number, the date of issuance, and the expiration date (if provided) from the permit or license.

(3) If the transfer is pursuant to a certification by ATF in accordance with §§ 478.102(d)(3) and 478.150, the licensee shall maintain the certification as part of the records required to be kept under this subpart and for the period prescribed for the retention of Form 5300.35 in § 478.129(c).

(b) The requirements of this section shall be in addition to any other recordkeeping requirements contained in this part.
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1140-0045)
[T.D. ATF-415, 63 FR 58280, Oct. 29, 1998, as amended by ATF-11F, 73 FR 57242, Oct. 2, 2008]
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:34:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Wow...okay, was unaware of that.

So Fed Law states that CCW permit holder can bypass NICs....

Thanks for the info Ziegenbock!

ETA-spelling error.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wow...okay, was unaware of that.

So Fed Law states that CCW permit holder can bypass NICs....

Thanks for the info Ziegenbock!

ETA-spelling error.
View Quote


Well, yes/no...ATF didn't except our old permits, I think MO had to specifically state this in statue....ATF has to sign off on this and say our permit is GTG.  I'll give them a call next week and post what they say.
Link Posted: 9/13/2014 10:29:03 PM EDT
[#10]
I could have sworn that a MO ccw would not be accepted as a NICS bypass due to the language that requires issuance of the ccw after 45 days even if the background check was incomplete.
Link Posted: 9/14/2014 10:10:45 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't know what requirements the Missouri permit did not meet, but maybe our fine legislators have finally fixed it enough to satisfy ATF.
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 3:10:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Didn't have time today to call them...will post back when I talk to them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2014 6:23:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Asked the question of using CCW in lieu of NICS background check to the KC ATF office.  Received this reply:
 FFL licensees will continue to use the NICS system until an open letter is sent to them telling them otherwise. ATF will check to see if Missouri's check system for CCW meets or exceeds the current NICS background check. When and if ATF sends out the "open letter" to all Missouri FFL's they will inform them on what date they can begin using the CCW exemption.  That is all.
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 3:06:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Asked the question of using CCW in lieu of NICS background check to the KC ATF office.  Received this reply:
 FFL licensees will continue to use the NICS system until an open letter is sent to them telling them otherwise. ATF will check to see if Missouri's check system for CCW meets or exceeds the current NICS background check. When and if ATF sends out the "open letter" to all Missouri FFL's they will inform them on what date they can begin using the CCW exemption.  That is all.
View Quote


Thanks for calling that in Sharpshtur!  Who did you talk to at the office?
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 6:55:04 AM EDT
[#15]
>>ziegenbock,  Her name began with a J is all I remember.  I believe she said she was in the "policy" division of ATF and returned my call after leaving them a voice message asking about  the provision of SB656 and how/when it would affect background checks of CCW holders in Missouri on the 4473 form.  KC was the last office I tried to call after St. Louis and Springfield without success as it was late in the day so that's where the message was left.  
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