This is a separate thread on the perceived issues with Serpa Holsters...

This is a Cut & Paste from what I posted on the Training thread:



Lost me with that statement, I'm a FIRM believer in the Serpa. I've used a Level 3 every since they released them.

The key is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE! You don't develop muscle memory until after 3,000 + cycles. I've practiced enough that I replaced my Serpa due to wear.

In MANY L.E. Agencies they are manditory!

In fact, one of the reasons I quit using the FN 5.7 as a Duty Pistol is because Blackhawk doesn't offer a Level 3 holster for it.

Blaming the object is one of the most ludicrous excuses I've heard.

I remember back before the 1911 became the most revered pistol in history, it was considered EXTREMELY DANGEROUS by Law Enforcement agencies because it was designed to be carried "Cocked & Locked".

Then when the New Jersey Highway Patrol adopted the HKP7 it was too dangerous because several Officers shot themselves drawing it. My Wife switched to the P7 as soon as her agency allowed Semi-autos. She still prefers it today over any other handgun.

Then the Glock came out, it was deemed unsafe because it didn't have a manual safety. New York City had numerous incidents involving it.

What do all of the above have in common? LACK OF PROPER TRAINING!!!

Considering a LOT of L.E. Officers do not train except when required, why are agencies still issuing the Serpa? There hasn't been a outcry in the L.E. Community of it being "dangerous"

It's so popular that there are Chinese counterfeits floating around. My son purchased a Serpa last week that was a FAKE!

As soon as I saw it I knew it didn't look right, the retention spring on the release button was around three times stronger than on my real Serpa's. In addition upon closer inspection I found that the listing on the back stated it was for a CLOCK 17/22 This holster I WOULD consider dangerous.

I have no issues with them and think they are good holsters.  My g22 is in a safariland L2 on my duty belt, if not in uniform, it's in the serpa.  I also carry my g27 with the clip draw holster when I carry concealed ....lets see how many people and comments I get with that

OMG, I forgot...guns are dangerous.  Have fun and stay safe out there

I completely agree.

Although I am not near the expert that many are on this forum, I use a BH Serpa CQC (Level 2) for my carry.  I switched to it from an IWB holster and like it very much.  I had been warned by a few people that I'd shoot myself with it, but I have only used a Glock and got PROPER training by someone (not YouTube) who was very knowledgeable and had the credentials to back it up, and have practiced (although never enough).  It feels natural to me and I have not once pulled my pistol with my finger on the trigger.

I do understand that some inexperienced folks don't use good common sense and get the PROPER training they should, so I get that some folks want to shield themselves from morons.

So +1 for Serpa from me.

It's my understanding that the problem that people have is with pressing the button release.  One comment on the other thread even commented on cutting off the plastic retaining piece to disable the button.  If people are drawing their pistols incorrectly with the button functional, why is it that they won't be drawing their pistols incorrectly without the button functional?

It seems like they would need PROPER TRAINING still so they could break the bad habbit.  So why not properly train them to use the holster correctly in the first place?  I've attended a class where a completely different type of holster was causing one of the students to sweep his whole leg and hip when he was trying to reholster.  I think a lot of holsters would be banned if it is based on people who don't know how to use them (and this particular holster may have been an actual bad holster design--the instructor sent him home before we even got to the range because of it).

I've attended a few training classes taught by John Farnum.

Back in the day he was considered in the top 5 in the country for street survival training. IF he observed a student place his finger inside the trigger guard during the draw he would be IN YOUR FACE!

It didn't take long to learn correct techniques.

I have used a BH Serpa on my M&P 9 and my Sig P226/228 without any issues.  I have heard of shooters having issues with sand and other objects getting behind the button and preventing the release of the gun during the draw.  The other issues are related to training issues with the finger the presses the button getting inside the trigger guard.

I have not experienced either of these issues.

Oh but there has been an outcry.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/6921

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/serpa-holsters-banned-from-fletc/

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/dallas-police-ban-type-of-gun-holster-for-safety-reasons.html/


If you got a lot of time on your hands.....

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?99676-SERPA-Issue-Compilation

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1569-Banning-the-SERPA

hmm, never heard that one but might warrant some investigation.  I never did like the idea of the serpa but got the carbon fiber cqc L2 for my G23 (aka grenade as some say).  I love it so far.  only issues I had with it is getting use to pressing the gun down before trying to press the button (instead of trying to pull on it and then press it).  never had any issue with fingers in guard that I have noticed.

Went to the Dallas news site and they were referencing a Military Times site for some of their reasoning.  Their reference for the danger linked to a video of a guy who shot himself drawing and posted the video as a cautionary tale for gun safety.  HE DID NOT BLAME THE HOLSTER!  In fact, he basically blamed his training, because he trained with a different holster a bunch of times, then switched to the Serpa (which he was also experienced with).  He drew like it was his previous holster and got bit in the leg (fortunately for him, not too serious).

Using that particular link as a proof text makes me question the rest, but I'll save those for later.

As for the dirt, the Military Times quoted:

Since I'm not military myself, if I'm rolling around in the dirt that much before drawing, I figure that I've got a bigger problem--mainly it'll take me a few minutes to get back up!  

Check this picture out...oh no!

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/map-where-is-open-carry-legal-1715/?mod=yahoo_hs

and I thought the blackhawk serpa was the greatest thing since sliced bread . I am not leo so I cant comment on those issues but my life style leads to alot of time out doors walking in thick cover or riding on mobile equipment  and I worry alot less about my 1911 taking a tumble out of a holster than I use to . Im not to sure about the dust and sand other than I got mine pretty nasty with mud during a moment that thankfully didnt end up on you tube and it worked just fine .
I wont be getting rid of my serpa any time soon.

Okay, thanks for the separate thread!  I'll have to check out a Serpa next time I get a chance.  The IMI is similar.  When you press the button and pull, the tip of your finger will be on the frame right beneath the slide.  Is that how a Serpa works as well, or does the finger end up lower?

I have another IMI holster for my pistol treed in a junk bin at a store in Springfield.  If I can find the hardware for it, I'll pick it up to pair with one of the MOLLE backs from IMI.

Let's see. What have I carried in a SERPA?

Glock 22
XD45
Beretta 96FS
Beretta 92F
1911
XD9
Beretta PX4 9mm

I have no extra holes in my leg.



And so far as them being referred to as "crap", I shot the one I had for the 92/96 with a 1911 and an AR, and even went so far as to tannerite the damn thing, and it still worked, despite the presence of a 5.56 hole through the release paddle.

I've been using serpas for years without a problem.

I really don't understand why instructors would ban them.  Can students draw improperly from them?  Sure.  But the whole point of an instructor is to teach you how to shoot properly - which includes drawing the pistol properly.

If an instructor doesn't want to teach a shooter how to properly draw a pistol, he probably won't want to teach other important shooting mechanics.

Amazing that I keep seeing this holster in the news since this thread

Sorry...its CNN, but still

http://centurylink.net/tv/3/player/vendor/CNN/player/cnn/asset/cnn-how_are_cops_trained_for_deadly_force-cnn

I FULLY trust my Serpa Level III holster for Duty use, now if you want me to list a holster I DON'T trust....the Uncle Mikes Level III.

It's an ABORTION, your gun belt better be uber tight or you will have a hell of a time even getting it out of the holster.

Do they make a holster that you can carry a light on you pistol with?  I mean besides a Blackhawk Light?

Great post Don and Bret weighing in says a lot as well.

'm very low speed so my opinion don't mean crap but I have to say I really like the Serpa. They are priced right, have a great selection and they are usually hanging on every gun store's wall which is nice as it let's me finger them. As such I've ended up heavily invested in them.

When the net blew up with the "OMG this holster will kill you" stories I was genuinely concerned. I saw all the pics with snow and gravel and everything else jammed under the release. Even watched a few vids of guys rolling around in the mud. That kinda concerned me but I'm pretty sure the only time I'll likely get something stuck in there is if I fall down out mushroom hunting.

Another big worry was the method that the holster body was attached and that it would easily break away. Next thing you know there were pics and vids of guys grabbing the holster and tearing it off in simulated struggles over the holstered weapon.  Sure enough if you yank and twist hard enough they could separate the holster from the attachment.  Again there was much "OMG this holster is shit. It can be torn away  by an infant during an officer involved wrestling match".

So I go dig one of mine out and twist the shit out of it intending to break it since it was only a $30 holster. I yanked and bent the thing and finally gave up. I'm sure if I really really wanted I could have separated it but I thought "if someone is going to grab it while im wearing it they are going to be swinging my scrawny body and my gun all over the place and my pants would probably tear away leaving me naked and only wearing my bullhide belt". Not a big deal since I'm hung like planet Pluto. Hard to see with the naked eye.

Then I think it was ole Tex Grabass that blasted a hole in his buttox area doing live fire speed drills for his youtube audience. We'll then the true danger of these deadly holsters was caught on tape. (He may not have used a Serpa but I seem to remember it was)

As everyone knows Glock leg was already a known phenomenon for many years and the cause was also well known. But when it came to these holsters it was said that the very placement of your index finger applying inward pressure on the release while drawing the weapon under duress would cause the finger to naturally continue inward movement as the pistol cleared the holster there by instinctively moving the finger in to the trigger guard, pressing the trigger ultimately shooting your own self.

Finally this had my full attention. Then I realized that I do draw and point drills all the time and I always end up at the end of the movement with my finger to the side of the trigger guard. Thanks to repetitive training and developing memory muscle.

Honestly I believe a lot of the grief thrown at the Serpa may be caused by competing holster companies or people who have a financial interest in knocking down the brand. But I'm a lowly dirt shooter so my opinion means nothing.

Rant off,

Mike out.

I remember more than one LEO commenting on the open carry attention whores.

At least the SERPA is an active retention holster made of something other than soft nylon.

I agree.

I was just stating what LEO have said about the attention whores.

I use my SERPA for on duty carry...I love mine.

I find it SLIGHTLY amusing that the two PREMIER pistol training academies in the World don't ban the Blackhawk Serpa...

Gunsite &
Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith)

http://www.gunsite.com/main/course-offerings/equipment-requirements/pistol/

Heavy belt, holster, magazine carrier,
(Safety Issue – Prohibiting Use of Blackhawk SERPA Holsters)

http://www.gunsite.com/main/course-offerings/pistol/tactical-pistol-vehicle-defense-class/

NO DROP or SERPA holsters.