http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1413126_2nd_AMENDMENT_MARCH_IN_EVERY_STATE_CAPITAL_FEB__8TH.html
Anyone in KY doing this?

Read much?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_27/507293_Feb__8__Frankfort.html

Didn't even have to make it past the first page!
M Richardson

Reading-smeading.. I missed that one, the title would have been better served to have been a subject instead of a date.

Has this been moved up to Jan 19th now ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUAfft7l4wQ

So is anyone going to go? Being one of the most liberal pro gun states it would really be a travesty for us not to show up and defend the 2nd amendment because we feel we don't have anything
to worry about?

Not true since a federal AWB will effect us all no matter how pro gun out state is. We need 1000's of people to show up.

I really don't like Nut n fancy too much but he's exactly right about the way we need to go about this. Don't come out dressed in camo with signs saying " only if you pry it from my cold dead hands."

That's not going to do anything but feed the image the media is spouting everyday about us. I don't feel a suit is in order but dressing nice, not packing ar's, and no signs about going to war with our government would
be a good idea.

Back to the origonal question. Who all is going and where should we meet to park? Frankfort isn't that big and a large turnout would make parking difficult.

Me and a buddy are talking about going to the Feburary rally. Is anyone here down?

Some of us are discussing putting a group together to come down.

I could do the feb one, but not the jan 19th one

Come on guys!  We need to be there on Jan19th.  I need some good ideas for a sign

Me and my wife and another couple are going to both the Jan 19th and the Feb 8th one.  The Jan one is probably the most important since Obamas talking about pushing through a ban by the end of Jan.  I'll be open carrying and have a slung rifle, and so will my wife.  Everyone needs to go to both no matter what.  They are trying to say that America supports this and they've been removing Pro-gun petitions from the White House site so it seems like they are right.  Protesting is something they can't ignore.  This is all we've got.  If this crap goes through people are going to get hurt and it’s our duty to try to prevent that.  Even the founding fathers exhausted all diplomatic avenues before fighting.  Also dress nice, don’t play into their stereotypes.

So, is the proposed march on the 19th (this Saturday) an organized rally that someone (or some group) is organizing and coordinating? I'm down for it if so but I don't want to drive down for some unorganized clusterfuck thought up by some youtube dude.

I would also like to hear more about the legalities of carrying a handgun (open or CCW) during a rally? How old do you have to be in this state to legally open carry a handgun or rifle?

Food for thought, per some of the comments above,

SATURDAY Jan 19,
With Jan 19 being a SATURDAY, the key law makers and staff should NOT be there. So the people at the local level who should get the message will not be there to see it or hear it firsthand. SATURDAY is also NOT known as being a big "News Day", so it could greatly reduce the chance that the media will cover it, or that it will get air time. Add up all of the above, and the odds are not in favor of this having a significant impact. More people may be able to come on a weekend, but you are not necessarily going to get the maximum coverage/impact that you want on a weekend. If anyone wants this to have an impact, then someone with a recognizable reputation had better be contacting all of the local media outlets (Lou & Lex) and giving them enough of a sales pitch that they will go to the trouble of sending out a news crew on a Saturday to cover it.

ORGANIZATION,
Per above, someone had better come up with a formal plan/agenda for this rally. One, this would serve as a sales pitch to the local media that it is worth covering. Two, it would make the rally look like it has weight/substance, versus just being a loose gathering of some “extremists”.

NUMBERS,
If this is going to have an impact, 30-40 people are not going to cut it, and may even “backfire”. The media could easily put out the headline, a VERY SMALL GROUP of gun supporters staged a rally at the Capitol.

I am not tied into any local political or gun rights groups so I have no ability to make any of the above happen. IMHO someone with a formal group really needs to step up to the plate and get a solid plan put together. If not, then this is probably not going to really help the cause, and could even hurt it.

I am willing to show up, but not if this is going to be some half @$$ effort.

Thanks,
M Richardson

I agree with everything your said, especially that last line /

So what are the laws in KY on open carry at a demonstration at the Capital?

There is no law against it. I've open carried at a rally a year and a half ago in Frankfort. There was a stage and they had public speakers. There was a speaker there for the "Oathkeepers". Many were open carrying pistols and more were carrying rifles.

I cant do the jan rally. But the feburary is fine with me

I see the typical Ky  HTF  attitude of  "not my responsibility to make it happen. but, I might come if its big enough/close enough/cheap enough/easy enough for me." " wanting to   pop up yet again.

Im going of anyone in eastern Ky wants to car pool with me. IM me if you are going

I agree, Im tired of hearing excuses.  Nothing should be more important than this barring a deployment.  Look at NY and IL if your thinking this shit won't happen.  Everyone needs to go to both of these not one or the other.  They are trying to shut us up and make it look like the country supports a gun ban.  Every pro-gun White House petition is shut down and even these events are being screwed with.  Think about it at first it was Feb 8th, so the White House promised to do something by the end of January.  Now the Jan. 19th event is getting big so they've mysteriously promised to do something this week (Today the 15th IIRC).  This is the life or death of this country.  Don't half ass it.

Get off your high horse and reread what captrichardson wrote. Half ass is exactly what this proposed protest on the 19th seems to be and a half ass protest can actually be more harmful then no protest at all.

So you plan on hopping in your car and driving to Frankfort on the 19th? Big fucking deal. What have you done to make this protest happen or draw attention to it? Have you contacted the local coordinator of the protest to verify it is set for Saturday and to see what you can do to help? Who is the coordinator? Is there one? If not, why don't you step up and do it? Have you contacted local media to make them aware of the event? Have you contacted Frankfort to see if there are any permits needed or other loopholes we might need to jump through before assembling?

I didn't think so. The point is simply this, don't be throwing the "I see the typical Ky HTF attitude of  "not my responsibility to make it happen"" stone when you haven't done shit yourself.

Now how about we drop the self righteous attitude and remember we are all on the same side? Either that or we can just sit here and argue amongst ourselves on the Internet and accomplish nothing

This is who is setting up Kentucky's rally Email: [email protected].  Doing nothing is not better than doing something that may have a low turn out  Also the overall organizer is [email protected].

And you say hopping in your car and driving to Frankfort on the 19th isnt a big deal?  Its something, what are you doing?  Too many gun owners are willing to complain but not get off their asses and do anything about and its disturbing.  This will determine the nation my children grow up in.  Ive personally posted this message in over 20 forums and 7 different AR15 home town forums.  I've also invited 2300 people via facebook and about 60 via email.  I'm also going to take flyers to the gunstore.  All of this is way out of my comfort zone, I typically dont touch facebook, only email for business and never discuss politics with strangers let alone hand out flyers.  But its important so I'm doing it.

First & Foremost, and I think we would all agree, we are all on the same side, or we should be!

That being said,

I send hundreds of dollars to gun rights groups, including the NRA, and the local Friends of the NRA. As such, I expect them to be taking the lead on things like this, not me. I say that because per my comments above, their needs to be a professional face and organized side to events like this. I have no problem showing my support whether it is financial, or showing up in person at an event like these. What I do have a problem with, is if these organizations are not taking the lead on any events at the local level!

Also once again, per my comments above,
- Showing up in Frankfort accomplishes nothing if it does not reach the decision makers and the media
- The media is not going to magically appear, unless someone notifies them, and convinces them that it is worth covering
- A small disorganized group with no obvious planning or agenda is not going to put forward the message that we need to be sending. It can actually have the exact opposite impact, which is that we are just a small group of unorganized extremists.

At work, I am a leader not a follower, it is my assigned position, and I am equipped and trained to do it.
At political rallies like this, I am a follower/supporter not a leader. My job is to show up, not to plan, organize, and notify, because I am not equipped or trained to do that job.

IMHO, if some of the organizations that we send large sums of money to don’t take the lead on things like this, then we need to reevaluate where our money is going and what is getting done with it. I am honestly really pissed, that the NRA has not formally appointed a group to do just this at each state level. If there ever was a time and place for it, then this is it! If they have, then those individuals need to be stepping up to the plate now!

As of now, I will be heading to Frankfort on Sat, assuming that someone has convinced me that there is some form of an organized plan!

Thanks,
M Richardson

EDIT! I sent an email to both of the gentlemen listed above as being rally leaders/organizers, if I get a reply I will share it here.

Thanks - Do you happen to have any info on who those 2 people are? Where did that info come from? I'm not on facebook and I gather that is where a lot of this is coming from?


We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Believe it or not, "nothing" is sometimes better than "something" and IMO, a poorly organized, advertized and attended protest will do more harm then good. If nothing happens this weekend, there is no story. A protest with low turnout is a story, one that says that most people don't care.


Please don't take my comments out of context. In the context of effort, driving to a protest and standing around for a couple of hours ranks pretty low compared to organizing and advertising such an event.


True but what some of us are trying to determine is; is it a useful and beneficial something? My concern here is it seems that this protest is a poorly planned, last minute rush job and will not get the kind of turn out we need. I think the one in Feb will draw a much better crowd and hence be much more effective.

That said, I do plan to attend this Saturday with my son because it's obviously going to happen either way. I do believe a poor turnout will look bad on all of us so I will do my part even if I do question the planning and timing of it.

Response from Eric Reed
"Well I can tell you that yes, a rally will happen.  Some logistics are still being worked on.  The value of the rally will be much greater then sitting at home complaining about our government.  We need people like you to come out, and support it."

Guess you can take that however you would like!

So getting down to business:
I have heard a lot of conflicting info on this rally, hence my comments about having a well organized front, so what say you?

Guns - bring them or don't? I have heard leave them at home and only bring signs because we don't want to look like an angry armed mob. I have heard open carry an AR and pistol both with a high cap mag showing, to make the point that we have them, and will not give them up.

Clothing - I have heard suit & tie or some other professional dress cloths. I have heard wear camo, LBE, Gear, and anything that shows a pro gun message. Suit argument is to show that we are professionals. Camo, Gear, Gun Message is to show that we can and will fight outside of the political system / courtrooms if needed.

Messages - I heard keep it clean and non confrontational, and I heard get straight to the point and use words like revolution, fight to the death, etc.

You can obviously argue pros and cons for any of the above, so what are your plans?

M Richardson

I wanted to comment on this real quick...


Not only do I agree with you, I would like to mention another reason why the NRA should be heading this... In the last couple of weeks, some people in the media and Washington having been trying to paint the picture that the leaders of the NRA are not properly representing their members. Somebody did some kind of half ass poll that supposed showed that 70% of NRA members are in favor of tighter controls? They are trying make people like Wayne Lapierre seem like extremists and out of touch. I believe that if the NRA was to sponsor and promote an event this using all of their resources, not only would it be much more successful but would also counter the BS assertions that most gun owners are in favor of tighter controls.

Anyway, back to business....


I'm not sure what to make of this as I can see the pros and cons to each side? I will be CCW'ing but I'm undecided about the rifle?


I absolutely agree that this is not an event to show up wearing camo, battle dress, LBV's, etc.. That is the exact image the media is trying to use against us (crazy fringe groups who want a war with the federal government). The correct image IMO is that we are sensible, logical, intelligent, hard working, law abiding American's. We are your friends and neighbors, Students and teachers, co-workers and business owners. Just normal everyday Americans who believe in Freedom and the constitution. I will be in business causal attire but I would hope that any active duty Military or LEO people attending would wear their Class A dress uniforms (not their utilities) unless of course their is some regulation that would prevent them from doing so?


Sorry but I'm not a banner or slogan kind of guy so I won't be bringing one but I agree that banners spouting or promising violence are counter productive. Remember the media wants to paint us as mentally unbalance, violent, anti-government radicals. Don't play into their hand.

That's my take on it

I'll be there.

Response from Jim Franklin,
"Mike; This is an organized event that is national. Every state is participating. Go to Facebook GunsAcrossAmericaKentucky for more info. Keep getting the word out by any means available to you. This is growing in numbers by the hour and I am swamped. Further questions. Contact me. Thanks for any help you can give my friend. Jim Franklin Lead Organizer for Kentucky."


Also, funny you should mention the "NRA controversy", the message below was just posted on the Yahoo News Website:

"I'm starting to think America's biggest problem isn't guns, it's the NRA. I think most gun owners would agree we need to find a responsible solution to this problem with violence that includes working to create a less violent culture AND MEASURED GUN CONTROL. The NRA uses fear and hate to manipulate their own membership so they'll buy more assault weapons. You gotta remember, the NRA is a lobbyist group that helps the weapons industry make millions of dollars in profits. The gun industry is the NRA's true master."

Also as you pointed out, there are all of these "polls" that keep popping up in the media that say "we the responsible gun owners are in favor of some gun control measures", unlike the NRA who is against any new form of gun control. Funny, the source for these “polls” is never clearly identified.


As much as I hate to say it, here is a reality check IMHO:
This website,
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
which is supposed to be the "official Govt website" is full of petitions that oppose any new gun legislation, yet they are all being ignored and the President continues to move forward!

This website,
https://www.popvox.com/
which is supposed to be the people communicating with their elected officials has over 10 different new pieces of gun control legislation that are all opposed by at least 90%, yet both the Fed and State Govts continue to push forward with the legislation!

NY, and at least 5 other states, are days away from enacting some of the most stringent gun control laws ever put on the books at the state level. The talk, the letters, the posting on websites, the rallies, the threat of law suits, etc, have accomplished nothing!

When did the British figure out that they could no longer pass and enforce laws without fair input or representation? Not when the Colonist talked, wrote letters, or had rallies. They got the message loud and clear when the Colonist started shooting back!

When are the State and Fed Govts going to get the message, pretty easy to figure out in my book! I will be in Frankfort on Sat, don't really think that it is going to make any difference!

See everyone then!
M Richardson

Members of the military (Active, Guard, Reserve) cannot wear their uniforms to political protests. Honorably discharged veterans are allowed to wear their uniform in public but the same rules apply to political protests (but of course there is no penality since you are no longer in the miliary) I would wager most police departments have similar policies.

Thanks for the info. I figured there might be some restrictions like that.

If you do just remove you name tapes and unit patches, oh and the where your PC or remove the pin from your beret.

And you would still be in violation. I don't think it is worth the article 15.

I totally agree.  The NRA takes in millions of dollars and when we need them they're late to the game if they do anything at all.  The biggest asset we have, the Heller V. D.C. decision was turned down by them when Heller asked for their help.  The do help a lot in Congress and the House but we need them for this as well.  They should be organizing this.  For such a huge organization they aren't doing nearly enough and honestly it makes me worried that they might eventually sell us out like they did in 94.



I see where you’re coming from but small protests help create larger ones.  Not much could do a better job at promoting the next rally than having a decent turnout at this one no matter how unorganized.   Also in my opinion the open carrying EDC weapons and rifles in a peaceful manor will get the media’s attention just as it did with the Tea Party rallies.  And those rallies had an impact.




I think dressing like a gear whore or a redneck would do nothing but hurt us, it would feed into their stereotypes.  That said, I will be in a suit and me and my wife will have rifles for the reasons mentioned above.  Its hard to say that a group of well-dressed protesters with rifles on their backs are a bunch of racist rednecks.  

this guy doesnt fit there profile...be like him.

This is what the event organizer has to say on the subject of firearms at these events.. (from their facebook page)... Guns Across America

I read that but I disagree and so do a few other, so long as people are responsible.  I watched it work very well for the Tea Party in Northern VA.  Let’s face it the media purposely ignores conservative protests, but they can’t ignore this and it’s difficult to twist it around so long as you pretty much look like the guy pictured.

So if we are doing this Sat,  how can we increase our odds of a good turn out?  I would think putting out flyers would be a good idea, anyone know where I could print something off that would work?  I am not a good planner, but if someone has any good ideas I will try to make it happen.

They have some but they're small.  I'm remaking them right now.  I can post it up once its done.

Here's the official Facebook page for the KY event:
https://www.facebook.com/GunsAcrossAmericaKentucky

If we can fill Heritage Hall at Rupp Arena for 2 solid days for a gun show, we can fill the streets of Frankfort for one afternoon to keep the right to have those shows!  I will be there - hope to see you there too!

You guys sure have allot more talk about this than my state on IN can - I'll be in Indy

I made a flyer, anyone know how to attach documents?  I scanned it but it looks like crap so its better to just load the document somehow.

Less cool version-  http://www.slideshare.net/DustinDownard/flyer-16016312

I agree on all points, especially those above.  Where is this?  Parking, meeting location?  Numbers?

Excuse my ignorance but are the local NRA Grass Roots groups involved?

KY State Capital, 700 Capitol Avenue Loop, Frankfort, 40601 on Sat Jan. 19

Sorry, I meant is there a specific parking area, lot, time to meet?

According to the latest Legislative News Release the Legislature broke last week and won't return until Feb 5th for the duration, 26 working days ending in late March.  I'm not sure what the point of a rally/protest on January 19th would be if the legislatures aren't even in town to notice.  The February rally is the one that will get noticed.  Of course you can use the January rally as a practice one to see what works.

The media will notice and the rally will bring more people out to th Feb rally.  Every giant rally has smaller ones before it.  Occupy didnt get noticed because of only one protest.  Why is it so much more important for a bunch of dirty hippies who dont even know why they're out there than us protesting for our actual Constitution.  Basically everyone needs to go to everything.

Good points.

While media attention is good, legislator attention is what you really want.  At the rally I went to in 2010 in the capitol rotunda, you could see staffers and legislators walk up to the balcony railing, look over the crowd, and count the number of people.  These weren't the gun friendly legislators that were part of the rally, these were the legislators that didn't want to engage anyone but wanted a pulse on the movement.

I agree that everyone that can make it should go and use it as a practice run.  That way some of the questions people have asked here can be answered.  It would be good to know what officially is or isn't allowed, especially when it comes to carrying.

I'll be by to pick you up with my Dick's boycott surrender proclamation.

I agree it should have been on a weekday but the Feb. one is.  So this one will create the numbers and media attention needed for the next.  And the media is what politicians care about. From what I've gathered everything is legal.  Of course if you’re a felon it’s not and if it’s a class III you need your stamp.  Otherwise it’s all good from what I’ve been reading.  The only thing I'm not sure about is having the rifles loaded.  Mine won’t be and I'm ganna have a chamber flag just in case.  I’m going to call the State police and check tomorrow assuming I can get a straight answer out of them.

I think a lot of people need to have magazine related signs.  I think that will be a compromise that the Republican are willing to make but it’s unacceptable as well.

I won't be able to make the 19th, unless you want to drive to Somerset and pick me up.  I still wouldn't sign on to your Dick's boycott idea though.

I am hoping to attend the February event.

I would be more than happy to if you could throw down some gas money.  We've got plenty of room and I don't mind taking the time.  

I'm confused though I didn't have a Dick's boycot idea.  Are they not selling ARs anymore?

We've got Pinewood derby Saturday at noon, and we worked hard on it.



I'll do the February event.