I wonder how many on our various gun boards and/or gun clubs will actually write our reps about this instead of just bitching about it.


(Not intended to be a hostile post)

I apologize. I got your name mixed up with someone else's. A different poster who's name begins with an m basically said, "it's ok because I can afford it", which I find to be a disgrace.

I think we are well aware by this point they are not listening to us. We sit in front of them and talk to their faces for hours on end and we're laughed at and made a game of.

I didn't make fun of Obamas strongly worded letters for 8 years so that I could write some of my own. (I will, but . . .) If this comes to tuition it is time to take action, we need to organize and we need to not pay any of it as a collective. It is a right and they have already gone too far. Not another inch.

Can you become my new best friend.

Anti-salt guy is spot on.

10/10

We are under an assault.  We are in the ring and have our hand up in front of our face as this democratically lead government is pummeling us unmercifully.  

First we get a right to the jaw as he eliminates the remaining car excise tax AND property tax.  The were small, for sure, but were both solid take-aways.
 
Second we get a left to the jaw as he removed a huge chunk of money called "state aid".  We send our money to Hartford and they send some back.  This year it'll be less then expected and will affect our bottom line budget.  We're beginning to reel backwards.

Third is the body blow by our own town!  That's the school superintendent demanding a 5% INCREASE in the school budget even though we will have an anticipated 125 FEWER students in the schools next year, a continuing trend for the past 25 years.  Less students but increasing costs.  Go figure.  Oh, and our town eliminated one of our high schools entirely last year.  What?  One less school and fewer teachers/staff but increasing budget????

Finally, we get the lights-out, upper cut by our governor.  "Towns, we took your money and we were supposed to put it into the teacher's pensions but, sorry, we spent it instead on everything but that.  So, since we screwed up their pension forever, we're going to make you pay it directly from now on.  We're going to spread this poisonous deficit throughout each of our 169 cities and towns.  Hartford, you included!   We'll let you know what you'll pay based on your bottom line".   Well now, we all know that our towns all have a pot of money just sitting round so we'll probably have to use that, right?  

Each and everyone of these changes announced the the other day will require........actually DEMAND that our towns levy higher property taxes in order to meet the demands being put on us.  God bless those retirees with fixed incomes having to cope.  

Edge is right.  This state is failed.  It's going to have to literally go to ground and begin again because there isn't enough property tax money in our state to meet the obligations being foisted upon us day in and day out.

Only the wealthy are entitled to self defense...

Exactly. By jacking it up so much he's testing the waters to see how much he can get away with. He knows gun owners currently are not a serious factor in preventing his re-election or any other Democrat from being elected Governor or from being elected from any of the major Democratic cities. He knows that many (I'll wager most) gun owners with pistol permits will be submerged by so many of these fees/tax increases they'll simply pay it and bitch about it later like they do with most of the shit that goes on with this state, or they simply won't pay it at all and let the permit laps/expire. Both are win/win for Democrats. They are looking long term and know that with so many increased taxes and fees that people will be forced to choose between food on the table and thier guns. For most, food on the table will win.

While $300 to renew a five year pistol permit may not seem like a lot to some, it is to me. It will force me to make sacrifices elsewhere to come up with the additional $200+ if I want to keep the permit. Which is exactly what this is designed to do, force me to choose between the permit or something else.

Governor's Fiscal Year 2018/2019 proposed budget documents
http://www.ct.gov/opm/cwp/view.asp?a=2958&Q=590066&PM=1

Page 21: http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/budget/2018_2019_biennial_budget/budgetdocs/002.introduction.pdf#page=21

Edit to add:
Also page 25 of the following PDF: http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/budget/2018_2019_biennial_budget/budgetdocs/021.section_b.pdf#page=25

Page 2 of the following PDF: http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/budget/2018_2019_biennial_budget/budgetdocs/2000-regulationandprotection.pdf#page=2

Page 27 of the following PDF: http://www.ct.gov/opm/lib/opm/budget/2018_2019_biennial_budget/budgetdocs/powerpoint.pdf#page=27

They don't appear to be proposing to increase the pistol eligibility certificate fee (or any of the other firearm permits/certificates other than the cost of the background check). That would seem to indicate (at least to me) that this is partially (if not entirely) aimed at trying to reduce the number of people who carry legally by pricing them out of being able to afford a pistol permit or to be unable to afford to renew their pistol permit.

Those of us still here will continue to fight but let's face it we have all but lost the war here. We are like those Japanese soldiers in the 60s and 70s that were still fighting WWII. We have lost but just can't admit it or we don't know it.

Our only hope is that Trump can pick apart the Democrat party one group at a time.

Blue Collar/Union voters. If Trump can bring back the manufacturing job sector he will get unions to vote for him.

Inner city/Minorities. If Trump can clean up the ghettos and make life better for these people he will get a better percentage of them to vote for him.

Jewish voters. Trump appears to be rebuilding our relationship with Israel. if successful this will get many Jewish voters to vote for him.

If we can get these 3 traditionally Democrat voters to vote republican we have some hope on a national level. This could spill over at the state level. This is not going to change things short term but could in the long haul. The Democrats have successfully employed the long game in destruction of our state and country. It will take the long game to recover from this infection. We have to be patient and never give up.

I heard back from 2 reps.  

Both basically said, that this was just a proposal and that they (senate and house respectively) were in the process of drafting their own proposals for the budget between now and May.

The issue here is more dangerous than just causing us pain in our wallet.  What this 'fee' does is preclude someone from exercising their God-given 2A rights but charging for it.  You CAN NOT exercise your 2A rights without paying the fee, period.

           This fee to excercise our 2A rights is NO DIFFERENT than charging someone to PAY TO VOTE.  We encountered precisely that issue over a century ago.  To enjoy a right an enumerated in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, we can NOT be required to pay to play.  Back in 1870, Amendment XV was radified by all the states.  There is NO DIFFERENCE between our State slathering on an insanely expensive fee to excercise our 2A rights than it would be to charge someone with a big fee in order to register to vote.

That, my friends, is the core issue right there. If you must, charge a small fee to file paperwork.  Our prestigious Governor knows this is the argument he will be facing, too.  He's no idiot.  He's just trying to see if there someone on our side is smart enough to figure this out.  

Rome

.

The NRA is sending e-mails out to members urging us to contact the Governor.

Uhhhh, do they know who are Governor is?

Hahahhahahah I needed this fuck that mother fucker

In a video posted on CCDL's facebook page, A rep for torrington did some math.

With the surge of permits in 2013 and 2014, he estimates nearly 32 million in generated fees in the next few years.  Something Barnes' office wasn't aware of.

The kicker, Barnes suggested the increase was reasonable as they looked at surround states, deciding to come under NYC's 350 permit renewal.  If you write your reps, it would me wise to mention the cost of permits in VT, NH and Maine are now free.  That would certain take alot of pressure of DESPP if the state had constitution carry.


https://youtu.be/zJQ_grB0pWQ?t=5m12s

Talking to a guy from Tennessee he told me they just voted to lower the price to 20 bucks for renewal or pay 200 bucks for a lifetime permit !!!!  . What are the chances we can get a good deal like that !!!

I presumed with the increase, the cost for renewal in Connecticut would be the highest in the nation, but as you know we are edged out by New York City's 340.00 every 3 years.

Interestingly, the increase went into effect in 2010, during Mayor Blumberg's term.

Fifty State Comparison / CT OLR

Well said, Rome.

When one looks, objectively, at this yes requiring a person to go hat in hand to the state, ask for permission, pay for that permission, to obtain any kind of firearm is no different that being required to pay for the privilege to vote or exercise your first amendment rights. It is in effect a "poll tax" which has previously been struck down by the courts. For the life of me I don't understand how the courts can ignore this vey simple fact. Instead they use some serious mental and legal gymnastics to justify and excuse how mandating a permit (for a fee) is not a barrier to exercising one's right to keep and bear arms.

If there was a 400% increase in the fee for a drivers license you'd have people marching on Hartford. But because it involves guns the Governor knows he can propose this and only a vocal minority will complain, the masses will simply shrug since it doesn't affect them. Couple with the fact that he is only proposing to increase the carry permit and not any other firearm permit fees (short of the background check fee) he can say he's not punishing gun owners. Instead this is just a thinly veiled attempt to punish and discourage those who choose to legally carry.

I often hit the lower economic class angle when communicating with the legislators. This proposed increase hits squarely at the very group the Democrats always claim they are championing, the poor and in many cases the minorities.

As always the Politicians assume when they propose a tax increase that the tax revenue stream won't change. As we see time and again this isn't the case, people will react. At 400% chances are high that there will be a reduction in that revenue stream and fewer people obtaining pistol permits. Also because, I suspect, the pool of taxable permit holders or those who will seek permits is relativity low this won't bring in as much revenue as they forecast.

CT Carry's take on Malloy's proposal.

Malloy Declares Price Gouging War Against Firearms Permitees
Connecticut Carry Fires Back With Common Sense

Hartford CT, February 11, 2017:  After Governor Dannel Malloy’s announcement this week that he would seek to increase Pistol Permit fees to ridiculous highs, pricing the human right to self-defense out of existence for many in Connecticut, we are firing back. We are going to show this Governor how common sense and leadership should work, instead of Governor Malloy’s continual mismanagement of state funds and his outright bigoted hatred towards those who possess the means to defend themselves in Connecticut.

It is a lost cause to debate such things with a bigot like Dannel Malloy. Malloy doesn’t care about fixing spending in Hartford, but only about penalizing gun owners further for his personal victim disarmament goals. We are reaching out to legislators with real ideas that can save municipalities money, save the state money, increase state revenue and make people who apply for a Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers satisfied with their access to legal means of personal safety and self-protection. And this can all be done right now, instead of taking 5 years to pan out like the Governor’s proposal.

We propose the following:

1. Remove pistol permitting responsibilities entirely from municipalities. Currently, the municipalities have a majority of the burden in the application process, and that work is entirely useless in terms of public safety.

2. All permits would be issued directly, the same day at the Special Licensing and Firearms Unit (SLFU) at DESPP headquarters in Middletown, Connecticut for a flat application fee of $100 which includes the $16.75 IAFIS query fee. No state background check fee (currently $50) is authorized by law anyway, and this is a good time to eliminate that illegal fee.

3. SLFU already conducts the same IAFIS checks and their own instant in-house state conviction history database search imediately when an application is submitted. IAFIS is guaranteed to return fingerprint results in less than two hours. Pistol permit issuance times are thus decreased from months to a few hours, reducing employee processing expense, time and effort.

4. Remove any and all ‘suitability’ requirements from the Connecticut General Statutes, which are catch-alls that allow local issuing authorities to deny people their right to armed self-defense on arbitrary and capricious grounds, which are often overturned on appeal at the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners.

Utilizing this simple plan, the legislature could work with Connecticut Carry to remove waste all over the state in municipal and state departments, saving countless amounts of money, retaining the same or increased levels of public safety, and keeping the public safe by expediting their ability to defend themselves.

Connecticut Carry will present this overall plan to legislators in the coming week, and offer our services to help craft the actual legislative package that can be directly presented to fix all of these problems and benefit the state’s treasury in a time of financial crisis caused by Dannel Malloy and his administration.

@sbhaven



I believe that the reason is a little bit more benign than that. The reason why they are going after permits to carry is because there is a large body of people who have them and who will continue to obtain them, since it is effectively the default firearm credential in Connecticut. The number of people with eligibility certificates is minimal, less than 100 last time numbers were published. the number of long gun eligibility certificates is also minimal. (When I was trying to conjure up interest in Basic Rifle I had perhaps 1 interested client, a 20 year old,...and he decided to take basic pistol  and apply for a permit to carry when he became of age).

It very well may be more benign then that. But my cynical side tells me that they, since they hate guns and want to disarm us, can kill two birds with one stone. They can harvest more revenue while at the same time reduce the number of people who obtain or renew their pistol permit who cannot afford the increase. By reducing the numbers who have a pistol permit they reduce the numbers who potentially legally carry in public meaning the possibility of less guns carried by the law abiding populous.

In any event though no matter how many apply for the various permits by raising only the cost of the pistol permit it raised my eyebrow and made me question why beyond just the fact that most obtain a pistol permit rather than other permits/certificates. I suspect that if they are successful in raising it 400% there will be a legal challenge and one argument the state will make is they didn't raise the cost of the other certificates/permits and that will drive people to obtain more of them rather than the pistol permit due to cost.

Anybody interested in going to the LOB tomorrow?

Any details? I might be able to get away from work.

OK then.  Here is my suggestion, poorly written but I think it conveys the intended point.
____________________________________________

First - Amend the State Constitution to include the following:

An over regulated populace, being necessary for the propagation of an unrestrained State, the right of the people to cast stupid votes shall
not be restrained.

Then, add the following to the upcoming Budget Resolution or whatever they are calling the fiscal 90LB. box of rape that is being considered in Hartford:

       I.           No person shall cast a ballot for any office,local, county, state, federal, or other except upon presentation to the polling
authority a properly issued Voter Identification Card from the State of
Connecticut Board of Elections.
 
      II.            The Voter Identification Card shall be issued to any legal resident of the State of
Connecticut Board of Elections who has:
a.       Completed a basic course in American Civics and presents a valid Certificate of
completion for said course.
                                                              i.     Said course shall be administered by an authority certified by the State of Connecticut Board of Elections Board of
Elections.
                                                            ii.     Said course will be priced in line with the three closest NRA certified courses required of applicants for a Connecticut
"State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers".
b.     Presented to the State of Connecticut Board of Elections written confirmation of the applicant’s fitness to vote as attested
by his or her home town Chief Law Enforcement Officer.
c.      Presented to the State of Connecticut Board of Elections proof of a negative FBI back ground check.
                                                              i.     Negative meaning no felony incidents found.
d.     Presented to the State of Connecticut Board of Elections “Letters of Character Reference” from no less than three legal residents
of the State of Connecticut who are neither:
                                                              i.     Related through birth or through marriage.
                                                            ii.     A member of Law Enforcement.
e.      Remitted to the State of Connecticut Board of Elections a onetime initial processing fee
equal to that required of any person seeking to obtain a Connecticut
"State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers" as priced at the time
of the application.
f.        Remitted to the State of Connecticut Board of Elections a fee in the amount equal to
that required for the granting or renewing of a Connecticut issued "State
Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers".
 
    III.            Any valid Connecticut issued "State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers"
shall be considered a properly issued Voter Identification Card from the State
of Connecticut Board of Elections.
_________________________________________

Again, no legal eagle here but if they want to abuse one constitutional right then we should at least call for parity with non gun owners getting a taste of the love that Dannel boy brings.

ETA:  Totally forgot fingerprinting.

I'm off tomorrow, figured I'd catch the shit show.

Spend valentine's day with CCDL at the LOB.




UPDATE.

CCDL is looking for members to show at 1pm for a show of force.  The hearing with DESPP is 130 to 230.

Good showing of COOL is here.   Channel 8 is here.  Watch CTN if the hearing is live.

What a cherry-picking scum bag. Too bad the representative wasn't prepared with fees from the rest of our "close" neighbors.
Mass = $100/6yrs
RI = $40/4yrs
NY State = $100-$130/5yrs