I've seen more stupid shit about this shooting from the cop was justified to he got shot because he was black.
This state is in for a shit storm because of a major fuck up.
More polarization and political entities will try to make hay out of it.

When the cops have their guns pointed at you, do what they say. Playing games will get you shot.

He showed passive resistance. That is not grounds for the cop to shoot him by the continuum of force.
Neither is the mere suspicion someone is armed.
He should never been allowed to get near the vehicle.
It was one huge fuck up and the whole state may pay for it because of outside agitators.

I don't disagree but he did contribute to the problem.

Yeah but he didn't pull the trigger of the gun that killed him.
That is who bears the responsibility.

Your a difficult person to agree with.

I really don't mean to be. I've been gut shot once and it was done intentionally. It almost killed me.
I'm not going to ever buy that the person holding the gun and pulling the trigger is not responsible for a shot, especially when they have a gun pointed at someone.
They didn't see a gun in his hand.
Do you think you could kill someone because you thought he might be going for a weapon?
That is not justification for a civilian.
An overly nervous cop and a passively resisting suspect does not make a righteous shooting.

Hard to tell what happened from the video.  First there was whatever behavior got the police called, then the refusal to follow commands, then walking away towards the vehicle...all that should have gotten him a taser right then instead of letting him get to the vehicle.  The guy knows there are cops with guns drawn on him and he disobeys commands to go back to his vehicle which would put any LEO on edge.  Then, knowing full well the police have guns drawn on him and things could go badly should he do something stupid, what does he do?  Something stupid.  He's at gunpoint, disobeying lawful police commands and knowing this he goes back to his vehicle and reaches in???  Whether or not his intent was evil, his actions are what got him shot.  He did multiple stupid things while at gunpoint and folks wonder why he got shot?

Personally I would have tased him before he ever got the vehicle but after he willfully disobey the polices lawful commands to stop and went back to his vehicle and stuck his hand in there, I would have shot him too.  Granted I wouldn't have let it get that far.  This is all assuming he actually reached back into the car after all the other stuff, can't see that from the video.  The fact that one officer chose to tase him at the same time the other chose to shoot him will definitely be something that gets all the non-LEO trained folks up in arms.  Oh why didn't she tase him like the other officer?? Well...in my opinion, the option for tasing ended when he put his hand inside the vehicle.  That's when it becomes a life or death possibility and you should be using deadly force.  Hopefully more video will come out that shows whether or not the guy reached into the vehicle before being shot.  If he didn't and got shot then that officer is 100% in the wrong.  If he did reach into the vehicle then the officer who shot him was in the right.

Yeah it sucks but especially in a situation like that where you are refusing to follow police commands, you have guns pointed at you and then you just walk away and stick your hand inside your vehicle???  That's going to get you shot every time.  What are the police supposed to do? Wait until you pull your hand back with a gun or a hand grenade?  Nope.  The only logical reason anyone would do what he did and then reach into his vehicle is to fight it out and that'll get you shot.  If you want to get something out of your vehicle just comply with the police and once everything is made safe, tell them your wallet is in the glove box or whatever it was.   I don't care what color you are, you do what that guy supposedly did (cause we don't know for sure), you are going to get shot.  That's just common sense.  This guy almost seems like he's purposely pushing the situation to it's breaking point to try and get shot.  Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

The window was rolled up. There is blood smeared on the window.
(The Tulsa COP is handing the investigation over to the Feds.)
Supposedly the taser hit him, then she fired immediately after, like a couple of seconds.
He certainly jerked from the taser. She may have pulled the trigger because he jerked, or so some experts think.
The point was he was passively resisting, something police are trained to handle, like using "come-along" holds.
4 our cops there and none of them tried a physical take down.
Their asses are hung.
For that and going over a half hour before checking his pulse or rendering aid.

Now it sounds like there is the possibility of PCP being involved.

I feel bad for his family having to go through this, but if he would have listened they wouldn't be. If someone doesn't comply with loaded guns pointed at them, I'm assuming they are in an altered metal state and unstable. Who in their right mind would not immediately follow commands and risk getting shot or killed? You start doing weird things with your hands and you're just asking for it. Unfortunately none of us will know the whole story. Unless different camera angle footage comes out.



I can understand not wanting to get arrested, especially if you don't think you've done anything to justify it, but on the street with lethal force pointed at you isn't the place to debate that.

This.

Check the story again. She pulled up to a car running with doors open in the middle of the road. She secured the car - turned the car off, rolled the windows up, shut the car off, then shut the doors.
The black guy came out of the woods, then she tried to take him into custody.
Then the problems started. He had an attitude and did not comply with her demands. She was obviously scared badly by his size.
She didn't have the horse power to stop him before he got to the car. She also wasn't the one with a taser.
(They cost about a $1000 each.)
Fear on his side and her side led to an undesirable ending IMO.
Four cops and they should have taken him down to the ground.
The taser wiould have taken him down but she squeezed the trigger too quick.
I agree the family and others are screaming bloody murder.
The TPD Chief is giving it to the Feds. That should tell you something is wrong with the story from those on scene.
Anyway you look at it, she was probably the one the most scared and she pulled the trigger on a STATED SUSPICION of a weapon.
That doesn't justify a killing.

Just a big scared teddy bear high on PCP.

I'm honestly not sure when you became an OK citizen.

That said, just so it's clear.  Here is my statement.

Think about that! Are you scared when a gun is pointed at you?
Granted this guy was an idiot.
And as for the woman cop, of course someone who ihas to be big and bad in their job will say "high on PCP" if they screw up out of fear.
I don't  believe the autopsy is back yet with blood results.
I frigging hate this happened in our state, especially when I heard Hillary say she would stop it.
I do know the time between taser and shot was way too quick.

My FIL detests the TPD. He claims they have had professional killers for hire in their ranks. He even talks about a TPD officer killing someone with a crossbow for pay and getting caught.
I don't know. I don't screw with police in they initiate contact. I do as they say. I might draw some pissed off idiot looking to vent on somebody and I don't want to give them an excuse. (They love hearing that!)
The Chief of the TPD didn't waste any time handing the investigation off to the DOJ.
Something is seriously wrong here.

A physical takedown?  I'm 205lbs of trained BJJ and Muy Thai.  I would've shot him too.

That's why we invented guns.  A physical takedown is the dumbest thing the officer could have done in this situation.  A physical takedown gets you injured too.

Stop being an apologist.  

OK is such a strange place, it's like everyone is just a hair from being a democrat but their mom wouldn't approve.  I've met more democrats in 6 weeks in Tulsa than I have in 12 years of Texas.

Well time for me to weigh in...

Tazers really aren't as effective as the Media leads on to believe,in my experience,only 50% of the time are they effective,a be fatal with anyone who has heart issues or can be fatal with anyone who is on stimulants like ecstasy and the like.

That's just Tulsa. Its a NY Wannabe..

This is a hard subject to write on because no matter what, you're going to offend someone. What's my take on it? Hard to say at this point because I wasn't there and not all the facts are out. I agree with several of you that this situation escalated further than it should have; the suspect should have been tasered right away instead of letting him walk 20+ feet back to his vehicle and up to the drivers side. From the footage I watched, unfortunately, both camera angles are bad for picking out any details. All I can say is if it had escalated to the point where the suspect was standing at the drivers side door, ignoring commands and reached into the window it would be in the interest of mine and the other officers safety to stop the threat.

At this point I'm tired of everyone jumping to conclusions and it's hard to look at social media because everyone is screaming bloody murder.

He was non compliant. She had an ND or was trigger happy.

They both messed up and it cost him his life, and the world is better off without him.

Ill just leave this here.

1996 Shooting with intent to kill — Dismissed
2001 Petit larceny — Conviction
2004 Driving while suspended — Conviction
2005 Driving while suspended, resisting officer — Conviction
2006 Driving while suspended — Conviction
Driving with open container — Dismissed
2006 Trafficking in illegal drugs — Conviction. (He was also charged in that incident with assault on a police officer and resisting, but that was dismissed.)
2011 Public intoxication (while in prison for drug trafficking) — Conviction
2012 Public intoxication — Conviction
Obstructing an officer — Conviction
2013 DUI — Conviction
Resisting officer — Conviction
Open Container — Conviction
Failure to wear seatbelt — Conviction
Speeding — Conviction

She is being charged.

Just look for the smiles and waves.

I predict a full acquittal.

she will walk.

I have been in that room.

The biggest problem I had were several women that decided on what they wanted to happen based on emotion and then would try to work backwards from there instead of looking at the evidence and going forward from there. Pissed me of so much I was yelling at them from inside the bathroom in the jury room. That was about 20 years ago and I just couldn't understand how people could be so stupid. 20 years older. I get it now.

Apologist? ROFLMAO
Come to find out she did have a taser and used a gun instead.
She should have waited until the troops got there because it is damn obvious she didn't have the horsepower to take him down.
And by the LE continuum of force, shooting a passively resisting suspect is WRONG,
You would have shot him too?
I'm damn glad you aren't a cop!
I spent a lot of time on the mat too (as well as the pitch ) prior to having my knee replaced. I have enough sense to know you don't use a gun on somebody because they are passively resisting authority.
He didn't threaten her with deadly force and she was wrong.
Like I said before, she was absolutely scared to death and too damn nervous to be holding a gun.
I'll give her credit for having the stones to push her authority but death for refusal to obey is FUCKING WRONG.
CALLING SOMEONE A NEAR DEMOCRAT will get your ass tarred and feathered and sent back to Texas.
She is not going to get off either.
People bet Erslund would walk but he didn't. (He should have IMO)

So what? That doesn't mean the police had a warrant to shoot on sight.
Granted it might be a better world if there was an open season on turds, but there isn't.
Swallow this - if it had been a white man with no record that got shot in the same circumstances not a fucking thing would happen to that cop with the nervous trigger finger.
Either way, it wasn't right what happened.

Erslund was guilty as hell and deserved what he got.

As the Tulsa shooting, they are filing charges on her.  I've not heard any word about the "reaching in the vehicle" issue that the shooting hinged on but since they are charging her I'm assuming that story didn't fly during investigation.  If the guy never reached in the vehicle then she was definitely in the wrong.  I still think they should have tasked him when he started walking away.  He'd still be alive and the BLM folks would only be complaining about cops zapping blacks for no reason.  

The problem now is that every time a black person is shot by LE, without video to prove it justified, the BLM crowd winds the situation up until violence erupts.  It doesn't matter that it's far more likely to be justified than not because facts don't matter.  There's no waiting for an investigation, it's just automatic protest-riot-kill-blame which is only going to make this worse.  What needs to happen is everyone who doesn't have all the facts just STFU in public.  Debate it among ourselves but don't go "reporting" your version of the truth all over social media and traditional media because people are stupid.  Most people are perfectly content to go off half cocked not caring about the facts.  They glean what suits their particular ideology from the assumed "facts" reported by other people who have no idea what is going on, assemble all those bits and pieces in their heads and head into fray where the next clueless person bases their facts on the facts they got from the person before them.  It's like a conga line of idiocy.  

We have way too many armchair experts on how law enforcement should be doing things despite never having spent any time behind the badge.

Or the male Tulsa county deputy who accidentally drew his gun when he meant to draw his taser...(although that's difficult to believe in my opinion).

In this case however it looks like she read the situation to require deadly force while the other officer and now the city determined otherwise.  I still haven't heard anything to clear up the reaching in the vehicle story which is what she apparently based her decision on.  Hopefully they release the whole story.

There was no one " shot on sight" He was non compliant. Had he been compliant he would still be alive.

Your feelz doesn't change that fact.

I know my view will not be popular and I don't give a fuck.

Women have no place in law enforcement unless it's a clerk or dispatcher.  

After seeing the video and direction this is going I am betting she goes to prison, hopefully for many, many years.

here's a female  Dallas detective's take on it, pretty objective

as for race, i think it's more size. from all accounts you have a Hulk, if not raving, erratic and non compliant.

excellent read.

I agree, thank you for sharing.

don't tell anyone but i filched it from ..over THERE.

You are either naive or FOS.
The threshold of using deadly by police is not "non-compliance", it is they have to be facing deadly force and in danger of losing their life. Thinking they are in danger doesn't cut it as an excuse.
She can say she thought he had a weapon and use that for an excuse. But it won't excuse the fact she accelerated the incident to deadly force too quickly after non-deadly force (taser) was used when the dead man had no weapon.
And I think our Coastie is right, a woman had no place facing a man weighing twice as much as she does. It almost gauruntees a woman will use the highest level of force she has available when faced with a threat, even if it is not deadly force.
Her being scared of the guy was NOT justification to kill him, regardless if he was not compliant and especially when he DID NOT threaten her with ANY force.
I'll say again passive resistance is not valid grounds for a cop to use a gun on someone.
WTF do they have tasers and ASPs?

Both these guys were "passively non compliant".

That makes me sick. What sorry excuses for two life forms. In that second video the officer tried so hard and ultimately gave the guy too many chances. He valued the guy's life so much that it cost him his. Noble.

However, I'd rather have that 23 year old officer alive and the the guy in the truck dead on site (he was executed in 2015). Hind sight is 20/20.



If only the general public understood how hard an officer's job is, maybe the police would get a little more respect and cooperation. Maybe. If only everyone would watch some videos like these instead of watching the Kardashians and going to rallys and thinking up racists slogans like "Black Lives Matter". I'm lucky enough to live in a small town and interact with officers. They are just people who want to go home every night and don't want to have to hurt anybody. Maybe if everyone (if you're on the up and up this shouldn't be a problem anyway) complies with the officers things would go more smoothly.



 

So, just assuming you're an average American height of 5'10'', that would put your weight between 150ish (small frame) to 180 (large frame), that is, if you're at a healthy weight. You're telling me you would feel comfortable taking on someone the size of a football lineman, or larger?

When I posted that I was in high spirits but I will recuse myself from the discussion.

My best friend is a TPD officer, my brother is a TPD officer, my wife's father was a TPD officer that was killed in the line of duty.
I financially support the TPD and especially the FOP.  I am probably not the best judge for the actions.  Now the court can decide.

I was born in Tulsa and grew up in Tulsa.  You want to tar and feather my ass, let's try it.

We know who is FOS in this thread.

I didn't say it was an excuse. Get your shit straight.

My comment still stands and there is nobody on here that can deny it. Had he been compliant he would still be alive.

I'm 6'3" and weigh 225 currently.
Don't talk to me about physical confrontation. I'm no stranger to it.
Regardless common sense dictates  a 145 lb woman cannot effectively handle a 300 lb man in a physical confrontation without a weapon.

Non compliance comes in active resistance and passive resistance. Passive resistance is not grounds for police shooting someone.
So refusing authority commands are grounds to kill them?
OK, let's throw out the UCMJ and Bill of Rights, due process, and enforce authority with killing those who refuse orders!

They had weapons. What they did, killing the police, is reprehensible.
What the Tulsa cop did, was also wrong.
If you want to excuse her mistake because she is a cop, it is all right with me.
She is going to face the consequences of her mistake.
Too many don't.