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Posted: 12/8/2014 12:50:43 PM EDT
http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/local/fredericksburg/fredericksburg-launches-gun-give-back-effort-on-saturday/article_921d2dd8-bd7a-547d-bac2-d02c9f45674c.html#user-comment-area
Fredericksburg Councilman Chuck Frye Jr. has lost friends to gun violence so one of his first initiatives after taking office this summer was to suggest a program to increase the safety of city residents. As a result, the Fredericksburg Police Department and Sheriff’s Office on Saturday will launch what appears to be the state’s first gun give-back effort. Local philanthropist Doris Buffett, who operates the Sunshine Lady Foundation, is also participating by making a $100 donation to one of four local charities for every gun turned in. The guns will be destroyed after 90 days.  I hope nobody's dumb enough to give their gun to the cops without any compensation! Also Fuck Warren Buffet's sister! |
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Posted: 12/8/2014 1:01:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Dupe, but we now know this is a conscious effort on the part of the city to evade the law.
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Posted: 12/8/2014 1:30:03 PM EDT
[#2]
VCDL is filing an injunction.
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Posted: 12/8/2014 5:00:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Ahh... So maybe the PD was just "following orders" and aren't run by a chicken shit left-wing CLEO.
But fuck that councilman. Don't bring your personal objectives into a job where you represent your constituents. If they ask for this, say so - but they haven't so go back to fucking work on shit that matters. |
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Posted: 12/8/2014 5:25:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Am I the only one looking at my calendar on Saturday and trying to find some free time to go buy cheap guns?
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Posted: 12/8/2014 9:40:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I the only one looking at my calendar on Saturday and trying to find some free time to go buy cheap guns? |
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Posted: 12/9/2014 12:24:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Okay. How about standing on sidewalk at the entrance to the "turn-in" site with a sign that says:
DON'T GIVE YOUR GUNS AWAY. I PAY CASH FOR GUNS. |
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Posted: 12/9/2014 11:49:46 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay. How about standing on sidewalk at the entrance to the "turn-in" site with a sign that says: DON'T GIVE YOUR GUNS AWAY. I PAY CASH FOR GUNS. or a blow horn. |
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Posted: 12/9/2014 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#8]
instead of Cash for Clunkers, its Greenbacks for Guns, or Pesos for pistols.
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Posted: 12/11/2014 4:01:45 PM EDT
[#9]
VCDL had their injunction request turned down. Judge gave them 21 days (lol) to amend it.
So get your money ready for Saturday. |
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Posted: 12/12/2014 8:01:11 AM EDT
[#10]
When I saw the title of this thread I thought they were giving guns back to law abiding citizens and members of the public militia. I guess I was wrong. That would be a great way to dispose of firearms confiscated from criminals. |
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Posted: 12/12/2014 12:29:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I saw the title of this thread I thought they were giving guns back to law abiding citizens and members of the public militia. I guess I was wrong. That would be a great way to dispose of firearms confiscated from criminals. when the police start doing that, I'll know my country is saved and may rest easy and die happy |
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Posted: 12/12/2014 2:01:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I saw the title of this thread I thought they were giving guns back to law abiding citizens and members of the public militia. I guess I was wrong. That would be a great way to dispose of firearms confiscated from criminals. Look into the old "Director of Civilian Marksmanship" program; the idea was for our own government to give civilians the "assault rifles" of the day and train them to use them. They even used to have an M1 Carbine program for youth (born too late for that one). Imagine, a government program to safely train kids with guns. In the 80s, I was provided with Lake City Match 30-06 and one of my old club's National Match Garands for practice & match day. One of the "rapid fire" strings was a lot like a stage in modern 3gun rifle (complete with a speed reload on the clock). Again, the match ammo was free & the guns provided by .gov for our training needs. Can you imagine a government-funded civilian program like that today? Congress de-funded the DCM in the 90s, but could not eliminate it. As far as military-issue guns and ammo, the DCM stopped with the Garands (amazingly they still have a few to sell). Now though, our surplus M1As (parts and all), ammunition, and even semi-auto pistols (1911, M9, M11) and rifles require demilitarization, or in some cases, complete mutilation - before being auctioned for profit. How far we've slid. |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 1:42:37 AM EDT
[#13]
I'll be there in the morning, fully expecting to watch no one arrive.
Any other Arfcommers going? |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 11:14:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be there in the morning, fully expecting to watch no one arrive. Any other Arfcommers going? I hope your prediction comes true. Typically, the guns turned in are single barrel break action shotguns and beginner 22 rifles - exactly the sort of guns rarely used in crime. But we all know that facts and logic are lost on anti-gun zealots who organize these foolish events. |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 6:03:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope your prediction comes true. Typically, the guns turned in are single barrel break action shotguns and beginner 22 rifles - exactly the sort of guns rarely used in crime. But we all know that facts and logic are lost on anti-gun zealots who organize these foolish events. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll be there in the morning, fully expecting to watch no one arrive. Any other Arfcommers going? I hope your prediction comes true. Typically, the guns turned in are single barrel break action shotguns and beginner 22 rifles - exactly the sort of guns rarely used in crime. But we all know that facts and logic are lost on anti-gun zealots who organize these foolish events. Well, I was wrong on that point - they reported over 50 guns surrendered, and based on the number of cars that went by I have no doubt that's correct. Several people stopped and talked to us, and some people sold to us instead. One guy stopped on his way out and basically apologized for snubbing us - the guns he had were illegal SBSs, and we agreed we wanted no part of that. 
There were several reporters on hand, both print and online. No TV stations showed up, but we did have a couple of political bloggers and such. I did my best to follow the reporters around and give them as much material as I could, focusing on the idea that it isn't appropriate for government to encourage people to disarm themselves. Pics of the event: 
Pics of the nifty little black powder derringer I rescued from the furnace: 
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Posted: 12/13/2014 8:11:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Excellent Job!
SimonPhoto: It looks like the Fredericksburg PD deleted your comments on their FB page. You should get in touch with the VCDL as that was probably a violation of your constitutional right to free speech. Specifically, governmental agencies, to include police/sheriff departments, cannot "moderate" posts on Facebook by deleting otherwise valid/non-offensive posts simply because they take a position contrary to that of the department. AR15.com GD discussion on this topic Copy of Lawsuit Against SD Sheriff |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 8:22:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent Job! SimonPhoto: It looks like the Fredericksburg PD deleted your comments on their FB page. You should get in touch with the VCDL as that was probably a violation of your constitutional right to free speech. Specifically, governmental agencies, to include police/sheriff departments, cannot "moderate" posts on Facebook by deleting otherwise valid/non-offensive posts simply because they take a position contrary to that of the department. I'm not seeing any that were deleted - shoot me a link in PM, perhaps? There are two nearly identical posts from the 8th or so, maybe that's what you're seeing. One of them has me repeatedly questioning the legality of the event, the other doesn't. I thought they'd deleted my posts earlier, but I just had the wrong post :) Here's a screencap from earlier for your enjoyment, if you're not following the GD thread: 
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Posted: 12/13/2014 8:25:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I didn't expand the thread which contained your comments.
Also, there is an obvious point to make with them. Did THEY record the information on the people turning in the guns, check the serial numbers to see if they were stolen and, if so, question the person who turned them in and ensure the guns were returned to their rightful owners? Again, EXCELLENT Job! Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not seeing any that were deleted - shoot me a link in PM, perhaps? There are two nearly identical posts from the 8th or so, maybe that's what you're seeing. One of them has me repeatedly questioning the legality of the event, the other doesn't. I thought they'd deleted my posts earlier, but I just had the wrong post :) Here's a screencap from earlier for your enjoyment, if you're not following the GD thread: http://i.imgur.com/MBoikED.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Excellent Job! SimonPhoto: It looks like the Fredericksburg PD deleted your comments on their FB page. You should get in touch with the VCDL as that was probably a violation of your constitutional right to free speech. Specifically, governmental agencies, to include police/sheriff departments, cannot "moderate" posts on Facebook by deleting otherwise valid/non-offensive posts simply because they take a position contrary to that of the department. I'm not seeing any that were deleted - shoot me a link in PM, perhaps? There are two nearly identical posts from the 8th or so, maybe that's what you're seeing. One of them has me repeatedly questioning the legality of the event, the other doesn't. I thought they'd deleted my posts earlier, but I just had the wrong post :) Here's a screencap from earlier for your enjoyment, if you're not following the GD thread: http://i.imgur.com/MBoikED.gif |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 9:19:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't expand the thread which contained your comments. Also, there is an obvious point to make with them. Did THEY record the information on the people turning in the guns, check the serial numbers to see if they were stolen and, if so, question the person who turned them in and ensure the guns were returned to their rightful owners? Again, EXCELLENT Job! Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't expand the thread which contained your comments. Also, there is an obvious point to make with them. Did THEY record the information on the people turning in the guns, check the serial numbers to see if they were stolen and, if so, question the person who turned them in and ensure the guns were returned to their rightful owners? Again, EXCELLENT Job! Quoted:
Quoted:
Excellent Job! SimonPhoto: It looks like the Fredericksburg PD deleted your comments on their FB page. You should get in touch with the VCDL as that was probably a violation of your constitutional right to free speech. Specifically, governmental agencies, to include police/sheriff departments, cannot "moderate" posts on Facebook by deleting otherwise valid/non-offensive posts simply because they take a position contrary to that of the department. I'm not seeing any that were deleted - shoot me a link in PM, perhaps? There are two nearly identical posts from the 8th or so, maybe that's what you're seeing. One of them has me repeatedly questioning the legality of the event, the other doesn't. I thought they'd deleted my posts earlier, but I just had the wrong post :) Here's a screencap from earlier for your enjoyment, if you're not following the GD thread: http://i.imgur.com/MBoikED.gif Thanks :) I'm not really looking for attention with it, but I do want to represent us well. They claimed to record no information about the owners. That obviously isn't objectively true, unless they've erased the recordings from every camera on the property. I find that to be quite unlikely. They said that they would hold the firearms for 90 days before their destruction, and that if people thought they might want them back they should write down the serial numbers. From that I inferred that all that is needed to "recover" a firearm is the serial number. I'm considering filing an FOIA request to get the serial numbers and models of all the guns surrendered, and if I get that information before the 90 days is up, attempting to claim one of them. I don't expect to get it, but it would make obvious that at least some information about those people had been retained... otherwise, how would they know I wasn't the one who dropped it off? In the end, they planned to take one of two courses of action on every gun they got: if the numbers don't come up as stolen, they're going to hold it for 90 days then destroy it. If the numbers do come up as stolen, they're going to return it. I don't believe they intend to contact or identify the person who surrendered it in either case. |
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Posted: 12/14/2014 7:29:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks :) I'm not really looking for attention with it, but I do want to represent us well. They claimed to record no information about the owners. That obviously isn't objectively true, unless they've erased the recordings from every camera on the property. I find that to be quite unlikely. They said that they would hold the firearms for 90 days before their destruction, and that if people thought they might want them back they should write down the serial numbers. From that I inferred that all that is needed to "recover" a firearm is the serial number. I'm considering filing an FOIA request to get the serial numbers and models of all the guns surrendered, and if I get that information before the 90 days is up, attempting to claim one of them. I don't expect to get it, but it would make obvious that at least some information about those people had been retained... otherwise, how would they know I wasn't the one who dropped it off? In the end, they planned to take one of two courses of action on every gun they got: if the numbers don't come up as stolen, they're going to hold it for 90 days then destroy it. If the numbers do come up as stolen, they're going to return it. I don't believe they intend to contact or identify the person who surrendered it in either case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I didn't expand the thread which contained your comments. Also, there is an obvious point to make with them. Did THEY record the information on the people turning in the guns, check the serial numbers to see if they were stolen and, if so, question the person who turned them in and ensure the guns were returned to their rightful owners? Again, EXCELLENT Job! Quoted:
Quoted:
Excellent Job! SimonPhoto: It looks like the Fredericksburg PD deleted your comments on their FB page. You should get in touch with the VCDL as that was probably a violation of your constitutional right to free speech. Specifically, governmental agencies, to include police/sheriff departments, cannot "moderate" posts on Facebook by deleting otherwise valid/non-offensive posts simply because they take a position contrary to that of the department. I'm not seeing any that were deleted - shoot me a link in PM, perhaps? There are two nearly identical posts from the 8th or so, maybe that's what you're seeing. One of them has me repeatedly questioning the legality of the event, the other doesn't. I thought they'd deleted my posts earlier, but I just had the wrong post :) Here's a screencap from earlier for your enjoyment, if you're not following the GD thread: http://i.imgur.com/MBoikED.gif Thanks :) I'm not really looking for attention with it, but I do want to represent us well. They claimed to record no information about the owners. That obviously isn't objectively true, unless they've erased the recordings from every camera on the property. I find that to be quite unlikely. They said that they would hold the firearms for 90 days before their destruction, and that if people thought they might want them back they should write down the serial numbers. From that I inferred that all that is needed to "recover" a firearm is the serial number. I'm considering filing an FOIA request to get the serial numbers and models of all the guns surrendered, and if I get that information before the 90 days is up, attempting to claim one of them. I don't expect to get it, but it would make obvious that at least some information about those people had been retained... otherwise, how would they know I wasn't the one who dropped it off? In the end, they planned to take one of two courses of action on every gun they got: if the numbers don't come up as stolen, they're going to hold it for 90 days then destroy it. If the numbers do come up as stolen, they're going to return it. I don't believe they intend to contact or identify the person who surrendered it in either case. If your going to FOIA them figure out how much money this event cost the city in salaries. |
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Posted: 12/14/2014 12:18:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Make sure you tell them what you think of this on thier Facebook page
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Posted: 12/14/2014 2:57:32 PM EDT
[#22]
There's still 90 days until these will be destroyed. VCDL going to try to get another injunction?
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Posted: 12/14/2014 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#23]
With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get.
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Posted: 12/14/2014 11:43:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get. Let me know if I can help in any way - I'll of course be following the Facebook group and the alert emails, but I'm not afraid to have my name attached to something, or to speak to whoever I can get to listen. They've extended the "give back" as well, so if surrendering a firearm is required to gain standing, we have the opportunity to do that. I've also got an idea of a legal technicality that they seem unlikely to catch before they destroy the guns. I've kept that to myself, but will be reaching out if they don't dot that particular "i". |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 4:31:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get. Outstanding. I need to renew. 
I reached out to my Delegate and Senator, as we should all do. The Delegate's rep got back to me: Dear METT-T, Thank you for reaching out to our office in regard to this matter. The Delegate and I appreciate you bringing this issue to our attention so that he might have the opportunity to discuss it with his colleagues in the General Assembly. We will be sure to keep an eye out for any similar initiatives around the Commonwealth. Again, thank you for sharing your concerns with our office. If we can ever be of any assistance, please feel free to contact us. Sincerely, Nick Blessing Legislative Director Delegate Michael Webert (540) 999-8218 [email protected] |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 5:13:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get. Do you pair "rookies" with other folks at the Lobby Day? I've never been, and never been to Richmond, and ideally would like to meet up with a NOVA HTF member that's been. Not sure what I can actually do, other than be a warm body, but if numbers are what you're after - consider me a number.
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Posted: 12/15/2014 5:38:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you pair "rookies" with other folks at the Lobby Day? I've never been, and never been to Richmond, and ideally would like to meet up with a NOVA HTF member that's been. Not sure what I can actually do, other than be a warm body, but if numbers are what you're after - consider me a number. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get. Do you pair "rookies" with other folks at the Lobby Day? I've never been, and never been to Richmond, and ideally would like to meet up with a NOVA HTF member that's been. Not sure what I can actually do, other than be a warm body, but if numbers are what you're after - consider me a number. Last year there were groups of about a dozen people, led by someone who had a prepared list of people to see and bills to talk about. You would be fine just showing up if you're not prepared. I'm probably going to be bringing my 6-year-old this year. I think it'll be valuable for her to see how the political process works and to be around people who think the way we do. Plus, who could turn down a GSL sticker from a cute little blonde girl that's giving them big blue doe-eyes? "Mister, why do you want to make it easier for bad people to hurt me and my friends?" |
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Posted: 12/15/2014 6:17:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you pair "rookies" with other folks at the Lobby Day? I've never been, and never been to Richmond, and ideally would like to meet up with a NOVA HTF member that's been. Not sure what I can actually do, other than be a warm body, but if numbers are what you're after - consider me a number. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With the General Assembly starting in a few weeks, our focus is to fix the law so we can stop Fredericksburg from their unlawful buy-up. I will be poking Fredericksburg in the eye at the General Assembly for flagrantly defying the law every chance I get. Do you pair "rookies" with other folks at the Lobby Day? I've never been, and never been to Richmond, and ideally would like to meet up with a NOVA HTF member that's been. Not sure what I can actually do, other than be a warm body, but if numbers are what you're after - consider me a number. Numbers are what are needed at this point. Generally, there are several very well-spoken individuals who act as team leaders. What is needed is for the politicians to see that person is accompanied by a LOT of people, plus, make the rally afterwards be too large to be characterized as trivial.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 8:46:33 AM EDT
[#29]
I had to laugh at the PD. They posted some pictures on there FB page of some of the guns turned in and stated the event took place despite efforts from the VCDL.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 12:16:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to laugh at the PD. They posted some pictures on there FB page of some of the guns turned in and stated the event took place despite efforts from the VCDL. Why would they want to poke that bear? 
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Posted: 12/16/2014 8:00:27 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm not surprised by the PDs actions given their current leadership.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:51:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not surprised by the PDs actions given their current leadership. Neither am I. Things were much different under Chief Powers. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:53:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had to laugh at the PD. They posted some pictures on there FB page of some of the guns turned in and stated the event took place despite efforts from the VCDL. VCDL should collect and post pics of the guns that people bought (saved) at that event, and redacted pics of all the Forms 1 and 4 that F-burg residents have gotten approved using trusts. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:44:34 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VCDL should collect and post pics of the guns that people bought (saved) at that event, and redacted pics of all the Forms 1 and 4 that F-burg residents have gotten approved using trusts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had to laugh at the PD. They posted some pictures on there FB page of some of the guns turned in and stated the event took place despite efforts from the VCDL. VCDL should collect and post pics of the guns that people bought (saved) at that event, and redacted pics of all the Forms 1 and 4 that F-burg residents have gotten approved using trusts. I would give a hardy laugh if someone did that. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 2:42:21 PM EDT
[#35]
I saw this this morning. I hate to say it, but I laughed.
Fredericksburg deputy's mishap will add to gun give-back effort He shot himself in the hand in the basement of the courthouse - with a privately-owned pistol. He's quoted saying he wants to turn it in. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 2:52:19 PM EDT
[#36]
There was more Derp there that should be humanly possible.
Looks at the comments - lots of valid points: .22 as a back-up? No reckless discharge? The gun simply 'misfired'? 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:04:10 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm waiting for some anti-gun do-gooder near me to have a gun buy back program. I have a cheap, junky POS .22LR derringer that came to me when a family member passed. No real family heritage or connection, just something that was picked up late in life for "protection". Anyway, it's in such poor shape I don't even trust it enough to fire it, but I've been thinking I'd gladly sell it for $50
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:45:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm waiting for some anti-gun do-gooder near me to have a gun buy back program. I have a cheap, junky POS .22LR derringer that came to me when a family member passed. No real family heritage or connection, just something that was picked up late in life for "protection". Anyway, it's in such poor shape I don't even trust it enough to fire it, but I've been thinking I'd gladly sell it for $50 If they ever offer $150 or more, I'm going to buy a shit ton of $99 Cobra .32ACP crap guns and bankrupt them.
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Posted: 12/29/2014 4:48:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Great on you guys that went up there and bought what you could.
Thanks again to the VCDL and the great work you do. The posts regarding the council meeting and phone calls with the City Attorney were very interesting. Trying to shift things around so I can be at Lobby Day. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 12:10:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they ever offer $150 or more, I'm going to buy a shit ton of $99 Cobra .32ACP crap guns and bankrupt them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm waiting for some anti-gun do-gooder near me to have a gun buy back program. I have a cheap, junky POS .22LR derringer that came to me when a family member passed. No real family heritage or connection, just something that was picked up late in life for "protection". Anyway, it's in such poor shape I don't even trust it enough to fire it, but I've been thinking I'd gladly sell it for $50 If they ever offer $150 or more, I'm going to buy a shit ton of $99 Cobra .32ACP crap guns and bankrupt them. Shit, I'm just going to make some hilariously ugly slam fire shotguns for like $1 and sell them. People have been doing that. Somebody turned some in to Fredericksburg. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 3:08:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shit, I'm just going to make some hilariously ugly slam fire shotguns for like $1 and sell them. People have been doing that. Somebody turned some in to Fredericksburg. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm waiting for some anti-gun do-gooder near me to have a gun buy back program. I have a cheap, junky POS .22LR derringer that came to me when a family member passed. No real family heritage or connection, just something that was picked up late in life for "protection". Anyway, it's in such poor shape I don't even trust it enough to fire it, but I've been thinking I'd gladly sell it for $50 If they ever offer $150 or more, I'm going to buy a shit ton of $99 Cobra .32ACP crap guns and bankrupt them. Shit, I'm just going to make some hilariously ugly slam fire shotguns for like $1 and sell them. People have been doing that. Somebody turned some in to Fredericksburg. I like that idea. Except I think it's a crime to make a zip gun. 
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