Anyone here used one of these $100 gun trust companies for a VA gun trust???

I got on board with the $69 deal. Another member got the same thing, just after the promo. I guess we'll let you know how it works soon.

Same here. Paperwork is sitting in my inbox, unread.  I might get around to it when I can afford to put something on it.

These guys are open about not being Lawyers (much less NFA Lawyers) so what value do they offer over using Quicken to do it myself? I mean if it works it works but if you want to cheap out and not hire dbrowne why wouldn't you go all the way and just Quicken it yourself since they aren't any more qualified than you are?
 

dbrown1  did mine. Did one form 1 with it so far,no problems.He includes paper as well as a thumb drive(makes it easy for e-file on e-form).Was available for any questions I had later also.May cost a little more then online companies,but ya get what you pay for.

I did the $100 deal from the gentleman who advertises on VaGT and it was a great experience. Had my paperwork emailed back to me the next with all my information and was available by text to answer questions as I did my Eform1.

My personal opinion is use an attorney who is a member of the bar for your state, online or otherwise.  I do them for MD and will start doing them for VA in November and while my NFA trusts would be valid in other states, it is not something I'm comfortable with doing...even providing forms let alone actually doing trusts when not admitted to that state bar could be considered the unauthorized practice of law.  If someone isn't a MD or VA resident, I will refer them out.  I personally don't think a comprehensive NFA trust should be $400-$600 but that is my own opinion.  Access to gun trusts should not be cost-prohibitive - the more people that own NFA firearms and exercise their rights, the better off we as a country are.  I also don't think the typical $99 trust is extensive enough...some are just poorly drafted complete with typos, which is not good for something that really is an important estate planning document just like your Will.  

If DC ever gets sorted out gun law wise, I'll probably do those for just for the cost of my supplies

This is a very good point that many people overlook. I also restrict my NFA trust practice to Virginia, as I am not familiar with the trust codes and common law in other states. If you're considering buying a trust from an attorney outside your state, you should make sure that he or she is either licensed in your state or has an agreement with "local counsel" in your state (which usually involves a fee split) and that all of this is disclosed to you. That is the proper and ethical way to do it in my opinion.



Pricing is another area where consumers of "gun trusts" should understand that these are not all equal, fungible widgets. It's not just the document itself (which is of course important), but also the process that goes into creating it.

The reason I charge more than a $99 website is because I don't just fill in blanks from a form you fill out on a website, and then spit back a document by e-mail. I actually talk through many details with each client to determine how to set it up - things like whether they're married and how that affects it, how to choose and structure successors, how to safely split assets between multiple beneficiaries without ensuing fights, etc. Then I spend usually about an hour (sometimes more) reviewing the finished product in detail, so you actually know what every single piece of that trust does and why it's in there.

Yep, I suspect at least some are not using a co-counsel which is all fun and games until the ethics committee disbars them

I understand attorneys charge a fair price, just a practice choice for me on what I charge which isn't reflective of my actual time, effort, or cost.  I'm just happy to see other gun owning attorneys helping fellow gun owners.  There are others across the country that simply see gun owners as income and don't shoot or even actually own firearms.  When you look at their background...well, there isn't one.

It is interesting a place is admitting to not being attorneys yet doing trusts?  If that is in fact the case, they are also engaging in the unauthorized practice of law regardless if the trust is accepted by the ATF.  That's no different than Billy Bob gun store doing your trust for you without an attorney...unauthorized practice of law.

I'm going to use a local lawyer. I can be as cheap as anyone but this isn't a place to cut corners.

No shock to hear that from a lawyer, but why should a lawyer be required for two people to establish a legally binding trust?  I mean, a verbal contract can be legally binding, right?  If I agree to go in half on a pizza with my buddy, do I need a lawyer present for that conversation, so we can insert clauses about the permitted number of dips in the garlic sauce, or penalties for hogging the peppers?

Yeah, lots of potential for the NFA trust to get more complicated, I get that.  If that's the case, sure, get a lawyer.  For me though, read it, print it, sign it, notarize it.

That's cool. If the sole criteria for you as a consumer is "I want a widget that will get me a stamp" and none of the higher level considerations matter to you, then a website-generated trust may be fine.

Just as a general statement (not specific to gun trusts) -  I make a lot more more money as a lawyer from litigation involving self-prepared documents of various kinds that end up going awry (as do many attorneys who do litigation) than I do from preparing gun trusts, so that's something to consider. Most people who balk at spending a few hundred bucks to have a lawyer prepare something like a contract have never been bitten by flaws in one before. There are a lot of things, some simple and some more nuanced, that are easily overlooked. I've seen construction contractors absolutely lose their asses and put themselves at a huge disadvantage in litigation because they were missing one key and common provision in a contract, something any competent lawyer would have included even in a basic form.

All that said, I wish you well in your NFA purchases and hope everything works well for you.

Well spoken and level-headed.  Get off the internet, you don't belong here.  

If they are fully preparing trusts as a business, they are doing work that is required to have a license to practice law for.  Certainly people can legally create their own Trust (NFA or otherwise) or Will as an individual but non-attorneys can't act an attorney for business since they do not have the requisite professional license to do so.  They can no more do Trusts than they can Wills or any other work that requires a professional license (electrician, CDL, etc).

"By statute, any person practicing law without being duly authorized or licensed is guilty of a misdemeanor. The Attorney General of Virginia may leave the prosecution to the local attorney for the Commonwealth, or he may in his discretion institute and conduct such proceedings. "
http://www.vsb.org/pro-guidelines/index.php/unauthorized-practice-rules/

People, in general, may not know that the person selling them the Trust is breaking the law, out of state attorney or non-attorney alike.  In my opinion, the consumer should at least know what the rules are so they can make an informed decision no matter which way they choose to go. Otherwise, it's not really fair to them.

If they're just selling a template, is that acting as an attorney?  I don't think so, otherwise all the software companies like Legal Zoom (however it's spelled) would never have made it off the ground.

Legal Zoom sells you a form with blanks that you fill in. It also has attorneys on staff who, collectively, are licensed in every state.

Banks and car dealers do the same thing with forms for things like a POA. They aren't supposed to provide you with any advice about filling them out. The bar (at least in VA) has UPL opinions on these subjects.

If an outfit (online or otherwise) is collecting information from you and exercising any kind of judgment or discretion, however slight, in completing your trust - they're practicing law. If they claim to provide any kind of "support" then that's also practicing law, unless they're just talking about IT issues.

Yes, they could be but it depends on the state bar.  Here is one example specific to legalzoom.  Each state bar has different approaches and interpretations which is why they and anyone else should first seek an actual opinion from each bar before going forward.  Or, if they have deep pockets like legalzoom, they make a business decision and run the risk just like any corporation does then just deal with it if or when they get challenged.  It's pretty interesting when you start looking into it across every state and read every month sanctions on attorneys and businesses.  


http://www.ncbusinesslitigationreport.com/2014/03/articles/professional-responsibility-1/maybe-we-are-getting-closer-to-a-decision-in-north-carolina-on-whether-legalzoom-is-engaged-in-the-unauthorized-practice-of-law/

Sorry to the OP for the deviation from the topic.

I'll just say (and this isn't aimed at anyone in this thread), I find it funny that folks on this site and others are always spouting how they will lawyer up upon any dealing with the cops, and they claim to have lawyers on retainer for this or that.

But when a topic of clear legal significance comes up, that's well outside the standard purview of common knowledge, so many folks are quick to ignore the benefit of having an actual attorney working on these types of documents.

Spend $3-400 now, save thousands later?

Trust law is state law, not federal law. The fact that the property put into them is also regulated by federal law doesn't change that. I've asked the question (as have others, like bigcbass) not to malign you but because you've posted in a number of different forums here, and made representations or offers regarding services to people in states other than Georgia. Your website disclaimers suggest that people with state-specific questions should consult separately with an attorney in that state, and say nothing about a local counsel association, which certainly gives the impression that you don't have local counsel in various states.

If you do in fact have local counsel in every state in which you're offering services, and follow all of the applicable rules about disclosure and consent from clients on that, then there isn't an issue and please accept my apologies. As a suggestion, though, you may want to make that clear on your website(s).

I don't think DB1 is unhappy, he's just talking about bar rules.  On clarity, I think one reason Mr. Goldman states on his front page that he has attorneys in 44 states that he works with is to avoid any confusion...maybe that's all DB is talking about.  The gun law community should stick together...not enough conservative pro-gun lawyers out there, that's for sure. Bar rules are very complex and it's a really interesting area to me but it's off topic so I'll bow out now.  Have a good weekend

One area where I am concerned about, is how the trust, (which owns the firearms even after you pass on,) will be dealt with for my surviving family. I have kids, they have husbands/wives, and then they all will have kids. I want all of them to have hassle-free legal access after I'm gone, after my wife is gone. I believe these rules vary state by state. Getting someone who is well versed in this, in your state, would be smart, IMHO. It would be a shame to have a major problem after you're gone, because you saved a few bucks on the interweb.

My dad died 2 months before I was born.  My personal hope is that my kids love the time on earth that they have with me, and could give a shit less about some tools or other possessions I have lying around.  I could leave them with nothing, and I'd still wish I could have had what they have, because what we have between us...well, it's a first for all of us.  It's wondrous, and all the people in this world that get to live it as both child and parent...I fucking envy those people.

I'm not judging anybody else's opinion on this, I'm just explaining my perspective.  A trust, for me, is a widget that allows me easier access to toys if I choose to buy them.  In my case, it really should be no more difficult than filling in my name and the name of the trust.

You make an excellent point, but the other way to look at it is that NFA weapons are a difficult and technical legal process, which many even in the gun world don't understand. Having a line of succession built into the trust simplifies the disposition of the weapons upon your death, and keeps your family from having to hire an attorney to figure out exactly how to deal with them.