I got up at the butt crack of dawn yesterday and did not dig out the proper conceal carry clothes so I decided to open carry. I drive my g/f to her friends house fora jewelry party and then picked up my buddy and headed off to the gun show at Dulles. After I left the show I met my g/f and her friend at champs in Reston for lunch. Not a single person at the restaurant even gave me a second look, they are great folks there. Afterward the girls wanted to head over to whole foods to look around. As i went in I looked for any signs posted saying I could not carry and did not see any. About 5 minutes after entering a manager approached me and asked if I was law enforcement, I told him no. He asked me to leave stating that company policy is that no guns are allowed except for LE.  I agreed to leave but did tell him of my displeasure. The funny part was that my g/f made some comments to the manager also, she enjoys shooting and has her CHP :)
After she got back to the car, i had some reading material to look over from the gun show, I asked why they were back so soon. She said nothing there appealed to her :) so they decided to leave. Her friend does not like firearms but, does not mind If I take her husband shooting. Even she was a bit upset that they asked me to leave... go figure.


This does not surprise me since i saw on the food network recently a show about whole foods and its starts. It was started by a bunch of hippie's in California, I know that was a big surprise.
Just thought I would let you know about this. Later today after getting the honey do list done, I'll contact the VCDL and let them know they can add another place to the anti 2A list.

Thanks for the heads up. I won't be shopping there.

I just -mailed Philip from the VCDL. We will see what happens. I know one thing, I am not shopping there ever again.....not that I shopped there much to begin with.

IN Oregon where I use to live you HAD TO POST with a special sticker that firearms are not allowed on this business. Never saw one in Whole Foods except for the one in Eugene, go figure. That sucks cause I shop for alot of specialty food items there. I will have to start going to the other local store like Whole Foods but I'm sure they are the same. What the heck is up with some major hypocritical people against the 2nd Admen ? They want to cherry pick the BILL OF RIGHTS, only what suits their life styole and to HELL WITH EVERYONE ELSE. These "PEOPLE" are dangerous to the country and everybodies god given rights.

Ok, I need to respond to this.

#1Whole Foods does NOT have a company policy of no firearms. The store may, or it may have been what a manager chose to tell you, but they do not have such a policy.

#2, your research skills suck.


#3 And they can cherry pick their BOR as much as they want - it's private property. Or did you all forget that tenet? If I own my own business (which I do), I have every right to ask that you not carry a weapon in it. Just as I can ask you not to pass out communist literature.
Whether or not I would do so is immaterial - it's my right as a property owner to be able to determine what can, and cannot, be done on my property.

I just told my wife about this,we  wont be spending money there.

Overpriced anyways.... Fuck em..

A quick search on Google using the string "Whole Food firearm" found a more than ten pages of links, a great many of which led to discussions of Whole Foods' policy prohibiting firearms on their premises, including this one wherein the following letter from Whole Foods is quoted:



Austin is well-known as the San Francisco of Texas and I'm not the least bit surprised to read that whether they're from California or Austin, TX, the founders of Whole Foods were stinking, filthy, unwashed hippies.

Business owners who choose to put me at risk in the exercise of their property rights will quickly find that I afford the utmost respect for those property rights by spending my money elsewhere.

This!

Wow..... someone got butt hurt pretty easy.


1) According to the letter that CPTSpaulding was nice enough to provide, they do have a no firearms policy. Even if they don't, I can only go by what the manager told me since there is nothing on there website stating that guns are or not allowed, I looked.

2) I was recalling the location from a TV show I saw a few months ago, pardon me if I got the wrong state. It must be nice to be perfect like you...... oh yeah you got the no firearms policy thing wrong...... bummer.

3) I respect any business owner who decides they don't want guns in there store..... I respect them by not going back.... EVER! I never said they do not have that right, they do. They just have to understand I don't need to spend my money there since they will not protect me if something goes wrong and they are not affording me the opportunity to protect myself or my loved ones.

Sorry you feel the need to bash others for providing a first hand experience and there opinions.

You really, seriously don’t get it.  Do you?

Yes.  Businesses can cherry pick their BOR as much as they want - it's private property.  And customers can cherry pick which businesses at which they shop.  

Even if weapon carry is governmentally permitted where approved by private companies, if a high percentage of businesses prohibit it, as a practical matter, that limits weapon carry to the hone and the vehicle.  Some people think that’s bad.  Someone has to win this debate.  Who wins?

The companies who rightfully prohibit weapon carry, have the right to do so.  The people who don’t like that have the right to shop somewhere else.  

Companies that allow carry of weapons generally do so for one of two reasons:

(1) because they believe, as I do, that it’s right; or

(2) because they feel economic pressure from actual or potential customers to do so.  

Whole Foods sounds like it is not in the first category.  It, and others,  will only fall into the second category if customers impose their will and push it to do so.  

Why don’t you publicize the name of you business and the policy you have?  Let us choose freely.

It’s an open market.  Let’s choose freely.  I, for one, won’t shop at anti-gun places.  Others do.  It’s a free choice.  I hope the good guys win on this one.  

If you want to ban guns from your business, fine.  Just say so.  I and others will shop elsewhere.  Everyone's happy that way.  Right?

Just say on your door if you won't permit carry, and, like a man, take the economic consequences for your anti-gun ideology.  Please.

Contrary to what you may believe, I do get it.
I honestly have no idea why you are posting the way you are. With the exception of the state they started in, we seem to agree. A business has the right to prohibit and I have the right to go elsewhere, so why the nasty posts?

Contrary to what you read, I don't think MarineHawk was talking to you.  

Thanks.... I am not used to getting up at 5:00am and totally missed that.
My apologies to MarineHawk.

No problem.  

perhaps we should all OC there until they feel the need to put up a big sign

I got the feeling from talking to the manager that they are making this an unknown to the public policy. IT was not what he said much how he said it.
ticks me off then them hiding the fact they are anti 2A.
Feel free to OC and let them know how you feel, let the rest of us know how that goes.

I carry a bunch of these.
When I see a sign (or am asked to leave) I find said manager and hand them a card and my business card.
I tell them thank you for making their policy clear, that I will be telling my thousands of "friends" and customers around the world of their policy, and then I leave.
No ruckus, no fuss, simple language ( $$$ ) even a manager can understand.

I suggest you give http://firearmscoalition.org a shout and order some cards for yourself. http://firearmscoalition.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=356&Itemid=133  They DO make an impression without you having to make a scene.

Here here.  

OP - sorry to hear of your experience.  Not surpised it happened in a "Hole" foods store.  I used to shop occasionally in the one in Arlington & looked for any sign prohibiting CCW.  It was way over-priced.  And, if there is a sign, then I must have missed it.  In any event, I personally think there are better places to spend shopping $$ - like Starbucks, which wisely stays out of the issue altogether - despite the location of their corporate HQ and all it entails.

Anyone know if Trader Joes has a policy on CCW?

Sorry, did not mean to rile the troops to much.

I am not worried about it, I don't live anywhere near there.
My g/f had a party to attend and I used it as an excuse to hit the gun show. She would only go in every once in a while if we were in the area.
We have to many grocery stores by us that are better.

I have OC'd there. YMMV.

I'm glad that you posted your encounter at Whole Foods. I had no idea of their anti 2A policy

I will respect their property rights and take my business elsewhere.

No big.  Just carry concealed...

This is what's wrong with America today.

Including your filthy unwashed hippy ass...it ain't worth anything anyway



Amen. At least they're easy to spot, and remove. Put food under the soap, they'll die of starvation in short order.

I go to Whole Foods several times per month. In the past I have OC'd (as well as CC'd) and never had any problem at all.  I think they are a great store.

which location?

I assume the one in Reston, since he was at lunch at Champps

I think he was asking Masha, not me.

The one in Fairfax.  It's harder to get to the one in Reston due to traffic/parking.

Correct.  She has apparently experienced no problems at the Fairfax location.

Totally disagree - I have worked a lot of mediocre jobs in my life (from gas stations to big-box discount to specailty retail to restaurants and bars).  I would NEVER put my life on the line for $50 in the cash drawer (or $5k for that matter) for a $6/hour job.  F––- that.noise.  

I Open Carry and Conceal Carry in the Harris Teeter almost every time I shop there.  (Brambleton)
I have never been blinked at.

I have CC'd in Wegman's in Ashburn many times and OC'd once, nobody batted an eyelash.

F... whole foods, that place is too rich for my blood.  Even the cheese is over priced.

So you have a price limit on being a victim?
Yeah, you can kill me for $6hr, but I get a raise to $6.10...we're gonna tussle?

No thanks.  If I get a chance, I'll die fighting rather than die being a victim.

Nor should you. There is no right to defend property in Virginia. But to tell employees they're not allowed to defend themselves against a grave threat against their lives or their persons (which is what robbery is), that's just fucked up.

Shows what's really wrong - a mindset that thinks that if you succumb, if you give in, if you believe in Chamberlainian appeasement that the bad guy will just go away and not hurt anyone...

'Those for whom nothing is sacred, who have nothing for which they are willing to fight, are miserable creatures and will never be free unless made and kept so through the exertions of better men than themselves.'

Now that I can agree with.  While I am entire willing to turn over my employers insured assets (or at least in those "previous life" jobs), a person wanting to rob my family or threaten us personally would experience a different outcome.  I think most robbers don't want that robbery charge to get upgraded to murder or attempted murder, but I am not willing to take that gamble.  I also wasn't the most compliant with "no weapons in the workplace" when I was a bartender walking out at 1-2am with a few hundred bucks in cash in my pocket.

Careful talkin' about Wegman's - most of their stores have an on-site consumption ABC license, so admitting to doing so prior to July 1 of this year would be admission of a crime.



Agreed there. I carry everywhere it's not posted or otherwise prohibited.

I am not so sure about that. The Wegman's by me has a sign on the upper floor of the eating area stating that by Va code, you can not drink on the upper floor. Based no that,  I would think that it is only the lower eating area covered by the ABC license. I would think that the rest of the store would be g2g.

YMMV and I am not a lawyer but, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night :)

Anecdotally, some places (Whole foods) have a limited area for wine tastings, which presumably needs a license, but I have seen them all over the store at Wegmans.

The one in Sterling has a restaurant license: http://www.abc.state.va.us/licenseeSearch/jsp/controller.jsp?task=licenseedata&license=29411 They did, however, withdraw their mixed drink privilege - I guess nobody liked their margarita mix.

It's interesting that you seem to think I have an anti-gun policy - I assure you, I don't. Every employee carries, one openly.
But I would never, not for one second, demand that another's property be altered to accommodate my wishes/beliefs/desires.

And I do agree with you on putting your money where your mouth is, which is why, in my conversations with the manager of the Richmond store, I was told that there is, in fact, no company policy - but rather a decision to allow the managers of the stores to determine their own policy.
I have watched people OC into the Richmond location more than once. To my (limited) knowledge, no one has been asked to leave.

We seem to become ideologically twisted around ideas that come at the expense of others. I deplore anything that requires me to accommodate others in and on my property, and I would choose my battles based on companies support, or lack thereof, of issues.
Just as I refuse to shop at certain places that support political candidates and ideologies I disagree with, I understand the desire to vilify a business based upon their policy.

But I view it, right or wrong, in the same basic light as a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign. It exists because of a belief that OCing will cause distress and discomfort to their customer base. And although I agree that the method they chose to employ (speaking to the OP rather than posting signs) is cowardly - it's entirely within their prerogative, given we still (too a limited degree) believe in private property in this country.

Oh, and my business is fairly well known here.


Edit:
And, as an aside, has anyone other than me called the number of the "Customer Information Specialist" listed in the letter? His description of what makes "company policy" is somewhat laughable. Managers, by his own admittance, have COMPLETE say over the issue, with the "unwritten" policy being what he wrote with that letter. It makes an interesting counterpoint to the letter, and shows how individuals in positions like Mr. Walker have, in some cases, enough free rein to hang themselves.


Edit 2:
I'm sorry if I came across as too combative, such was not my intention. I merely saw this as becoming another version of the "Target doesn't support our troops and is owned by the French" threads. A perfect example is the letter CPTSpaulding posted from his google search. It is, as far as I can tell, the only "official" document ever found about a Whole Foods corporate firearms policy. And on my last Google search, the three links to that post on another board are followed by multiple articles about the growing OC movement, with examples given of shoppers in Whole Foods carrying.

I agree.  And I never would advocate spreading false information about a business.  I also have no problem with someone else spending a fortune in an anti-gun business.  I just don't have too.  I don't vet the businesses I frequent for a range of their political views.  I just don't want them to disarm me.  The 2nd Amendment individual rights are so fragile in some senses, and may depend on popular beliefs.  The more businesses that insist on disarming customers, the more it will seem accepable over the years and generations.  One different vote either in Heller or MacDonald would mean that there we would have no Constitutional rights to have firearms at all.  It's such a close battle, and I don't want to end up like New Zealand, England, Germany, etc....

I would note that, as a litigator of civil commercial, business disputes for 14 years, I have turned down cases from foreign entities that I did not feel comfortable representing.  I gave up income to maintain my own beliefs.  Life is full of choices.  

Some of your customers might ultimately demand that you prohibit gun carry in your business.  Others simultaneously might demand that you allow it.  Then, you simply have to choose.  Can't please everyone.

Agreed. On all points.

I've made my choice.

From WholeFoods link above:

"“If you are ever confronted by an armed robber, cooperate completely! We have a ‘no heroes’ policy which means that no Team Member should ever put themselves in danger when it comes to robbers, shoplifters, etc… Give the robber everything he or she wants.”


I wonder how the WholeFoods corporation would respond to these scenarios:

-what if the robber's intent is to rape the employee?  Should they comply & "Give the robber everything he or she wants" ??

-what if the "robber" instead attempts to abduct a child? "cooperate completely" ??

Besides, how can you be sure of an armed robber's intent?  Focus should be on the THREAT of serious harm rather than trying to infer a criminal's intent.

Of course, that is the problem with that mentality. But until the people writing that policy complete the full mental exercise, they probably won't realize it. Or they have made the decision that it's not worth the increase of insurance premiums. Anybody know if any big insurers require guns be prohibited on business property, or give a discount if they do?

I've never seen a sign at the Whole Foods in my area and wasn't aware of any such policy.

Still not aware of any such policy.

What really gets me are the big shopping malls that post their policies that include "No Guns, Knives or other Weapons" but have stores that sell guns, knives, etc. Explain THAT one to me.

millerized, thanks for bringing these to my attention! these would have been perfet had i had them to hand out during my little IHOP incident a while back... that incident ended ok with an invite back to IHOP and an apology by the way but still... donation made, cards on the way...

K.

millerized, how long did they take to ship?.

donation made on 10 Oct. credit card charged, no word and no cards from firearmsassiciation.org as of time of this posting...

K.