I'm not familiar with this issue, but, have a co-worker who is interested in either one.  All I know, that there is very specific steps acquiring a SBR (plus $200) vs AR Pistol which only require a SIG Brace.
Am I in track so far?
I'm trying to disway him because, in my case, not having a suppressor (thank you Illinois) on a 10" barrel would ruin my hearing....which is bad already.

Co-worker only wants rifle as hobby and home defense.

thanks for the education.

An SBR in Illinois requires a C&R License and then a CLEO signature to go with the tax stamp.

An AR pistol doesn't require anything except for the lower never having been in a rifle form before.

As long as you don't have a brake on it, the 10" isn't very bad imo.

My recommendation is if your  co-worker is dead set on a short barrel, build it in a pistol format.  This way you can get accustomed to it and before you spend the time/money to SBR it he can decide if it is something that he likes.

The top one is my 10.5 inch 300blk pistol that is unfinished, the bottom is my 7.5inch 556 pistol. It's a lot of fun to shoot. Why are you worrying about hurting your ears? Just wear ear protection.

I choose not to get the stamp (this way is still considered a pistol and can take it out of state)
This is the new style brace

I've seen somebody with a 10 inch SBR at a range. The fireball is amazing. The sound is too loud even with my HL Sportmans hearing protection.  I'm older maybe.

My readings for SBR boils down to 10" for both fun and precision UP to 100 yards (depending on competition ammo vs American Eagle 223)

I'll definitely pass this on.

Really digging the folding accessory. Aesthetically, I like the first gen Sig Brace. I've never tried one. If this new style takes the Aytee-Ef off our backs, I'm all for it. It appears less ounces also perhaps?

Sweet selection there!  I like the 10.5 version, if I was in the market. Plus more selection on handguard on that length. I'd consider any Centurion, Fortis and BCM.

This one is thinner and feels like a stock

Question....can you shoot an ar pistol at an indoor range? Will indoor ranges let you?
Thanks

Most ranges specify what's allowed by caliber, usually classifying them as pistol and rifle calibers, and .223/5.56 wouldn't qualify as pistol caliber.  If you can find an indoor range that lets you shoot rifle calibers, then you should be GTG, assuming the range lets you shoot pistols on the rifle range.

Anybody knows a range close to South suburbs where you can shoot a rifle?
I need to try this little baby and it's to cold to go to an outdoor one

For your hearing, I wear ear plugs under my ear muffs.  It helps by maybe 10 db, which is worth the trouble as far as I am concerned.

You can shoot a rifle at Gat, but that will be a haul for you.

Yep a little too far.

Article II Range Lombard

Thanks I'll give them a try next week

I was on the fence until I shot a friend's 10.5" w/ KAK tube and Sig brace.

Going pistol route for sure now.

Your friend should build both. Put a 7.5" on the pistol and a 10.5" on the SBR (after the tax stamp obviously) and go have some fun.

Why not a shotgun for home defense? Especially if your co-worker has kids or lives in a more urban area.

I maybe wrong on this, but, I believe he does own a shotgun....a long barreled shotgun not sure what make and model...but, let me just post this video

[youtube]http://youtu.be/C29mEJFFIvo[/youtube]

Take it from there.
There are very specific reasons why I'm convince that a rifle is best for home defense, hence, I brought it up to my co-worker:

now, here's an article that needs reading...for those who suggested shotgun as home defense...when it starts from "Breaking and Entering" then escalates to "Hostage Situation"
Zero Distance for a Home Defense AR-15...............I'm not advocating that once a Hostage Situation should arise, one should turn Charlie Sheen-Navy-SEAL-UBL-DEVGRU.....I'm just saying most people I see at Article 2 with their HD shotgun DO NOT have RDS or have HD specific shotgun ammo.

Most, not all...I've seen at Article 2....way too many pistol shooters with laser-targeting you will see their laser dot dance all over the paper target and still miss their intended target.

then read up on FBI Analysis on a PA Shootout....Disclaimer: Contains GRAPHIC IMAGES

My research on SBR before AR Pistol became legal (with SIG Brace)....I would visit lots of SBR forums and note what barrel lengths are they most content with. Those with very specific distance-shooting (past 50 yards up to 300) are very content with 10"...again with very specific competition ammo.
Anyone shooting past 300 yards, my readings end up in the 300 Black category with sub-sonic ammo.  
At this juncture, I do not meet or know personally, someone versed or actually own sub-sonic ammos or 300 Black rifles...90% in my circle do not know they exist.
Now the elitist that I've read on barrel less than 10" the conversation always end up in how loud, due to proximity, the shots are, necessitating a PRO-level, >$100 pair of noise-cancelling headphones+ Surefire E5-E7, therefore if homeowner needs to come to at 3 a.m. to inspect that bump downstairs, he/she needs to really train to put those hearing protectionssss rather quickly..........or move to a state that permits its citizen to include suppressors.

too complicated, as my coworker would say.

my wife doesn't like my Howard Leight Impact Sport, so I place the Surefire EP4 in the "run and hide here room".......my MIL doesn't get one coz she gets on my nerves .

@paulg26, if this is your first go at Article 2, may I suggest going there at 10a.m. with the rest of the CCL classes. After lunch it gets more crowded, and the RSO may...may ask you stay within the 1.5hrs designated time allotted.  RSO tend to be more relax with the time when there is a CCL class.  
And easier to find parking.  If you cannot make it at those times, and have to come during crowded times, load your magazines so your not wasting time and avoid the "asked to leave because you've past your allotted time."  Most negative reviews are related to purchases of guns and parts. Once inside the shooting range, majority of folks are GTG. I lost track of time there once and was left undisturbed for 2 hrs plus...very slow Monday

Bring those extra metal clips for the paper targets just in case you shoot one off btw. They charge $10 per clip....so I "overhead."

For legal reasons alone, I'd go Pistol w/Sig Brace over SBR 9 times out of 10.



No special transport/paperwork requirements.

No need to tell anyone when crossing state lines.

No special storage requirements.

No federal registration with the ATF.

$200 cheaper



Obviously, the SBR will have a selection of buttstocks rather than being tied to the Sig Brace and you'll be able to adjust LOP easily/legally. Other than that, they're the same dang thing. I'd choose the one that's less of a pain in the ass, legally speaking.

Any chance suppressor will be available next?

There's always a chance but only being a year into CCL and SBR in IL, I'd venture to guess it's going to take  2 or 3 years before we get toconsidering suppressors..

I'm giving serious thought to building an AR pistol for a toy. I'm not crazy about the SIG brace, so I'm thinking a Thordsen Customs RE cover and a CAA saddle - or the Shockwave brace if he gets approval.

My big decision is - a 7.5" pistol gas micro or a 10.5" carbine gas pistol?  I'm leaning 7.5" - it's going to be a toy.

I moved my SBR into the state when they were legalized.  If I had to do it again, I'd still go the SBR route, cause you're just one mind change away from being in violation with the Sig Brace.  (Atkins Accelerator) Filing a 5320.20 isnt too big of a deal, I just file one at the beginning of the year with all of the places I usually go on my time off.  

Steps to get one are:  

Get C&R
Get signoff
Send in Form 1 and check
Wait 6-9 months
Engrave receiver while you wait.
Assemble when Form 1 is approved.

Total cost will be ~$250ish depending on how much you have to pay for fingerprints.  And how ever much you decide to spend on C&R guns with your newly acquired FFL. . . . .

I've got an 11.5, and I don't notice much of a difference between it and my 16 in terms of sound/concussion.

So, I can spend ~$100 and have a pistol with Sig Brace now, with the potential that it might become illegal later... Or I can spend $250.00 on a SBR, get a C&R, ask for permission to have one, wait 6-9 months, have my name engraved on it, and then have to ask permission to cross state lines?  

Yeah, I think I'll take my chances with the Sig Brace for $100 Bob.

Your call.  

To me, $150 for an actual, functional stock and piece of mind against BATFE flip flopping is worth it.

I guess I'm voicing my opinion but when I considered these options I decided to buy a Tavor.  I bought mine used but just slightly, I really like it better than the Styer AUG but there are a couple of other Bullpups coming to market shortly.

I liked the Tavor's ergo's and the ability to shoot it from the week side.  You still get a 16.5" barrel with the overall length of SBR'S with no hassle.

I decided this morning that a 7.5" pistol was my best bet and ordered the barrel. I love the idea of an SBR but just don't want the hassle involved with getting and keeping one, at least as long as I live here in IL.

(Edit) I'm such a slut. I couldn't pass up the BCM sale ($1 Gunfighter CH on top of the free BCG deal) so I ordered a complete 11.5" LW upper, too.

oh sweet deal on those BCG. I'd go for myself but, money is tight.  let us know how it turns out, please

Will do!  Almost all the parts are on order, the 11.5" should be together in a week or two.  

I'm looking forward to clearing out the indoor range with the 7.5", but that one will be awhile.  

I had my 10.5 out last weekend and people kept asking me what caliber it was since it was loud

I hope RKA doesn't ban me after I shoot the 7.5" there.  

I gave them a try.. once.  I will not give them another try.  I feel like a broken-record on 'hater' mode here, but this range embodies every negative stereotype the liberal media paints around gun owners. The employees are rude, lack any concept of decent grammar, are slovenly overweight, and are generally unpleasant.  If I worked for a news station that wanted to make gun owners look dumb, I would interview everyone I could at Article II.

All that to say, the experience was terrible.  Expect to get attitude from an old bag of bones pretending to be the range cashier.  Expect to wait in line forever and be yelled at if you ask any questions (even politely).  Expect to see a lot of "neck-bearding" employees pretending they actually know anything about running a business or firearms in general.  Article II is complete garbage, and I dislike them so much that I've actually prevented at least 4 different friends/family from stepping foot in that place, or giving them business.

You almost make me want to go, just to experience this for myself.

Me too, I will NEVER go back to article II. OnTarget in crystal lake has been my go to. Their staff is very friendly and helpful. They even let my buddy who was a first time shooter, shoot for free. It's a great place to shoot.

It's a sight to see that's for sure.

I second that. The staff is polite and very friendly. The rates and prices are decent and tthey are very friendly to new shooters.

I'm liking how the 11.5" turned out:



Best part - statewide preemption since it's a pistol.    I'm still working on the 7.5".

That is a really nice set up. I'm on the fence about doing an FSB/BUIS set up or a flat top all the way out.

Here's a few pics of my 7.5" pistol build.

7 1/2" 9mm  and 7 1/2" 556  RRA tubes with Exile foam


22 LR 4 1/2"   Sig brace with sig extended tube Gen 2 brace stop



Had to try a Sig brace, there way over priced and on the heavy side
I'd suggest a RR tube

So if you have your ccl are you able to legally keep your AR pistol loaded in your vehicle?

My CCW pistol...still a work in progress.

This is badass.

What are you using for the upper and lower on the 9mm?

I'll play

16" - .223 Wylde & 12.5" PWS .300BLK

Necroing a dead thread, but I was right.  BATFE just ruled that shouldering the Sig Brace on an AR creates an SBR....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

So would that make shooting a rifle with one hand a pistol?

Or shooting a pistol with 2 hands a rifle?

Nope.  Still a rifle cause of the buttstock.  Buttstock was designed to be shouldered, shooting it one handed doesnt change the design intent of the buttstock.  Where as shouldering the brace changes the design intent from an arm brace to a buttstock.  




Shooting it with 2 hands =/= shouldering.  

Just trying to spread the word so that those of you who have AR's with the Sig Brace are aware of the ruling.  Its stupid, its arbitrary, and its sudden, but BATFE isn't known for being rational.  Or sensible.

So while you guys have fun trying to get F Troop to change their minds, I'll just be shouldering my SBR. . . . .

this ruling sucks heck the atf sucks altogether