Denied CCP - Page 1

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Posted: 3/22/2014 4:34:09 PM EDT

Just got a letter in the mail today saying that "a police dept" objected to my CCP. I thought I read something on here before about how some people are getting denied, but that changes later. I did a couple of searches but i could not find the thread. Is this true for people who have an objection from a PD? Also, is it just the hometown PD that objects, or can any PD object? Do all PD's in the area get a notice about the applicant?

I'm very frustrated, because other than an arrest for domestic battery in 04 that was bullcaca, I've not been arrested. The charges in 04 were dropped and the record of the arrest supposedly expunged.

I was a police officer for 12 years but left on bad terms with that agency. They have pretty much black listed me, and I was unable to get another police job. All of this is ancient history, and I don't think I should have been denied. The agency I worked for is not the same as the town I live in. could they have objected? I would not put it past them to do such a thing. What do you guys/gals think?

ETA: I am an FFL and had to go through that background check. I had to submit prints and everything. The ATF came to my house and interviewed me. I seemed AOK to them.

Posted: 3/22/2014 5:28:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Right now it's so early there is probably not much you can do other than contact a good attorney. The ISRA has a few listed on their website. I would probably start there.

I think you will probably turn out just fine although it might cost you a few bucks.

Good luck.

~L

Posted: 3/22/2014 5:33:04 PM EDT

[#2]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to wait until they tell me the reason. Then I will get an attorney. Hopefully the board review will overturn the objection. I hear they can do that.

Posted: 3/22/2014 5:37:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Right now, I don't know if there's much you can do until you get further notification from the ISP. If you've been objected to and your application shows under board review, it's still possible the board could determine there is no danger to yourself/others and kick you back to under normal review for completion of processing. If they uphold the objection, I think you should get another notice from them on the appeals process.

If you get denied by the board, then you may want to go look over at the illinoiscarry forum http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47175

Posted: 3/22/2014 6:02:49 PM EDT

[#4]

I will do that, thanks. I will keep you guys updated too.

Posted: 3/23/2014 5:10:15 AM EDT

[#5]

It doesn't seem to me that you were denied, just that you were sent to the review board. Can you confirm?

Local PD and County Sheriff may object. I heard something that Tom Dart objected to something like 700 applicants and of the 700, something like only 100 applicants state-wide have truly been rejected. These numbers could be wrong however. The thing is Tom Dart has said that he would object for reasons not outlined in the actual law. The actual law says why LEO may object and Tom Dart said he would object for any violent or domestic arrest. Sounds like you got darted!

I would not worry until I heard back from the review board. If what you are saying is true about your only one arrest which was dropped, sounds like the review board will pass you along to the ISP background check process.

Posted: 3/23/2014 5:32:25 AM EDT

[#6]

I live in DuPage county, so Dart is not an issue. I just worry about my former employer. The Deputy Chief and I could not stand each other, and he's pretty big in the DuPage County political scene. He is the type to hold grudges and enjoys screwing people over years down the line for some imagined, or real slight. I just have to wait until they either overturn the objection, or they state the reason for the denial. I've waited 42 years, i guess I can wait another couple of months.

ETA: Not denied, just objected to by, "a police department".

Posted: 3/23/2014 6:00:14 AM EDT

[#7]

If you know you are eligible and have not done anything wrong, simply put the odds are in your favor. 55,000 applicants and only 100 actual denials.

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:24:30 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I live in DuPage county, so Dart is not an issue. I just worry about my former employer. The Deputy Chief and I could not stand each other, and he's pretty big in the DuPage County political scene. He is the type to hold grudges and enjoys screwing people over years down the line for some imagined, or real slight. I just have to wait until they either overturn the objection, or they state the reason for the denial. I've waited 42 years, i guess I can wait another couple of months.

ETA: Not denied, just objected to by, "a police department".

View Quote

Of course that's what it is...It's a power thing...

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:54:33 AM EDT

[#9]

It certainly could be. I would not be surprised in the least bit.

Posted: 3/23/2014 12:33:22 PM EDT

[#10]

I think they should have to tell you who objected and why.

Posted: 3/23/2014 2:14:55 PM EDT

[#11]

I thought all coppers including former coppers have automatic ccw privilege.

Posted: 3/23/2014 2:55:19 PM EDT

[#12]

You need an I.D. from your former Dept along with 10 years or more of service. The dept does not have to issue you an I.D. if they don't want to. That's the boat
I'm in. They have refused to issue me an official I.D. saying I worked there for 10 or more years. Buncha cheesedicks...

Posted: 3/29/2014 7:05:10 PM EDT

[#13]

If you were denied by the review board, meaning they upheld an LEO objection to your application then your only recourse is to appeal it in circuit court. There may or may not be a time limit to file that objection it's not exactly clear. Illinoiscarry and Todd V specifically are the places to get clear answers. Molly B and Todd on the IC forums are helping everyone that's getting denied. I suggest you register and contact them.

Posted: 3/30/2014 10:52:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Well, it's official, I have been denied. I just checked the status of my app. and in big red letters, it says DENIED. I sent an email to MollyB at Illinois concealed Carry.com. I tried sending one to Todd VanDermyde, but I think his mailbox is full. I have not gotten the official letter yet, but I have contacted an attorney. I will keep you guys, and the guys on ICC apprised of the situation.

Posted: 3/30/2014 11:01:50 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
You need an I.D. from your former Dept along with 10 years or more of service. The dept does not have to issue you an I.D. if they don't want to. That's the boat
I'm in. They have refused to issue me an official I.D. saying I worked there for 10 or more years. Buncha cheesedicks...

View Quote

Lil' Tommy Dart's refusal to issue retired Cook County Deputy Michael Moore a Retired card to carry under LEOSA is what led to his filing Moore v. Madigan, so the next time you hear him crowing about "that poorly written law" make sure you take the time to thank him for his arrogance and condescending attitude towards retired LE, as it's what helped get us all CCW.

Posted: 3/30/2014 11:07:40 AM EDT

[#16]

This state is going to collapse in on itself from the weight of political corruption that exists here. Hopefully I will no longer be here to witness it 1st hand.

Posted: 3/30/2014 11:48:55 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well, it's official, I have been denied. I just checked the status of my app. and in big red letters, it says DENIED. I sent an email to MollyB at Illinois concealed Carry.com. I tried sending one to Todd VanDermyde, but I think his mailbox is full. I have not gotten the official letter yet, but I have contacted an attorney. I will keep you guys, and the guys on ICC apprised of the situation.

View Quote

Right now, Todd is forwarding any denials he gets to Valinda and she is compiling the information. Obviously, not everyone that is denied will be undenied at some time...Some folks will just not pass muster but, we are seeing some patterns and definite overreach from ISP and the board on several eligible applicants ...Valinda has been putting in 2-3 am mornings working on this project as the clock is running on these folks with only 35 days to appeal! We will be back in Springfield this coming week to deal with this problem.

I understand the frustration and fears...Hang tight...there is a good team doing its best!

Posted: 3/30/2014 3:44:24 PM EDT

[#18]

So I went on Illinoiscarry and sent Valinda my story about the denial. I did that this morning. At 530pm today, a lady from the NRA called me about it. Now that is fast service!!!! I, unfortunately, was not able to get my phone when she called and she left a voicemail to call her back Monday with the details of my denial. I will do so on Monday and keep you guys posted.

Posted: 3/30/2014 4:21:57 PM EDT

[#19]

I don't know if everyone has seen this thread posted in GD.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1601816_DENIED_IL_CCW_because_I_am_dangerous_to_some_unspecified_person_s_.html

Posted: 3/31/2014 1:17:11 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well, it's official, I have been denied. I just checked the status of my app. and in big red letters, it says DENIED. I sent an email to MollyB at Illinois concealed Carry.com. I tried sending one to Todd VanDermyde, but I think his mailbox is full. I have not gotten the official letter yet, but I have contacted an attorney. I will keep you guys, and the guys on ICC apprised of the situation.

View Quote

The window to file your petition for hearing with the circuit court is only 30 days or so, so make sure to stay on top of it!

Posted: 3/31/2014 1:41:48 PM EDT

[#21]

It may be a good idea to contact the ISRA and get the name of an attorney who would be good at handling your case.

Posted: 3/31/2014 2:46:29 PM EDT

[#22]

So I spoke to Suzanne from the NRA. She told me that they are going down to Springfield in the next couple of days to at least get a stay on the time limit for appeals. She stated that out of the hundreds of denials that they have looked at, only 2 were legit. Todd will send out an email to everyone when he gets beck from Springfield with any news he has.

Posted: 3/31/2014 3:01:17 PM EDT

[#23]

We are working with her and ISRA...Both organizations are all over this right now...
We are also wanting to get to the ISP to stop the problem at the source....We should be meeting with some of them this week.

Posted: 4/1/2014 10:34:06 AM EDT

[#24]

I have a question. What PD's have the ability to object to an applicant? Is it just the PD in the town you live in? Is it the PD's in the towns that you have listed in the last 10 years of addresses? For example, if you have never lived in, Wheaton IL. Does Wheaton PD even know that you applied for a permit? And if they do know, do they even have the ability to object? I know the local PD where you live, and the County Sheriff's police are notified, but can any PD in your county object to your app.?

Posted: 4/1/2014 1:44:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a question. What PD's have the ability to object to an applicant? Is it just the PD in the town you live in? Is it the PD's in the towns that you have listed in the last 10 years of addresses? For example, if you have never lived in, Wheaton IL. Does Wheaton PD even know that you applied for a permit? And if they do know, do they even have the ability to object? I know the local PD where you live, and the County Sheriff's police are notified, but can any PD in your county object to your app.?

View Quote

It appears any agency in the state can object to any application.

Posted: 4/1/2014 1:45:12 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a question. What PD's have the ability to object to an applicant? Is it just the PD in the town you live in? Is it the PD's in the towns that you have listed in the last 10 years of addresses? For example, if you have never lived in, Wheaton IL. Does Wheaton PD even know that you applied for a permit? And if they do know, do they even have the ability to object? I know the local PD where you live, and the County Sheriff's police are notified, but can any PD in your county object to your app.?

View Quote

Are you sure they are notified? I was under the impression that the only way an agency would know was by signing onto the LE portal and looking.

Posted: 4/1/2014 1:59:34 PM EDT

[#27]

How does any agency in the state know you applied? Is there a master list of all applicants that all PD's in the state look at everyday?

Posted: 4/1/2014 2:12:50 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
How does any agency in the state know you applied? Is there a master list of all applicants that all PD's in the state look at everyday?

View Quote

Exactly...a database that is available to LEO only. They aren't notified...just posted on the list.

Posted: 4/1/2014 3:19:43 PM EDT

[#29]

Oy!! That's all kinds of messed up!! But the ISP sends applicant info to the county sheriff and the local PD where you live, right? Otherwise how would they know when the 30 day window to object started or ended. So you are telling me that they probably look at this database once a day or something like that, and just pick out the people in their town? And any PD from any town in the state can look at your info even if you have never lived there? So if I have upset a person, who happens to be a police chief in another town, he can go on the database, look up my name, and object to my app. for a fictional reason just because he does not like me? I understand the review board has the final say, but it seems to me that this could become a system where one chief calls another chief and says,"Hey Roy, there is a guy in your town, who probably does not have any disqualifying offenses on his record, but I would consider it a favor if you would object to his app." "Sure Harv, No prob. We can't have the peasants getting too high and mighty can we?". And don't say this wouldn't happen because we live in Illinois, and it is considered sport to these politicians and their appointees. Just see how far they can encroach before there is pushback. See if they can get a little further each time.

Posted: 4/1/2014 3:24:57 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Oy!! That's all kinds of messed up!! But the ISP sends applicant info to the county sheriff and the local PD where you live, right? Otherwise how would they know when the 30 day window to object started or ended. So you are telling me that they probably look at this database once a day or something like that, and just pick out the people in their town? And any PD from any town in the state can look at your info even if you have never lived there? So if I have upset a person, who happens to be a police chief in another town, he can go on the database, look up my name, and object to my app. for a fictional reason just because he does not like me? I understand the review board has the final say, but it seems to me that this could become a system where one chief calls another chief and says,"Hey Roy, there is a guy in your town, who probably does not have any disqualifying offenses on his record, but I would consider it a favor if you would object to his app." "Sure Harv, No prob. We can't have the peasants getting too high and mighty can we?". And don't say this wouldn't happen because we live in Illinois, and it is considered sport to these politicians and their appointees. Just see how far they can encroach before there is pushback. See if they can get a little further each time.

View Quote

No notifications done from what I've read. LE signs into the applicant portal and enters some criteria e.g. zip code and a distance and they get the list, so yes, they need to be diligent in checking,

Posted: 4/1/2014 4:21:41 PM EDT

[#31]

By law, the "board" can't deny because some LEO objects. By law, the board has to have an articulable reason for denial. However, we aren't sure the law is being followed and that is why we are in Springfield a lot lately. Yes, LEO's can object but, without a solid reason, the board can't deny. (as per law)

Posted: 4/1/2014 4:46:44 PM EDT

[#32]

Thanks for the clarification guys. I know Todd, Valinda, Swanhunter, and the NRA / ISRA are really on top of this stuff. They are doing great work.

Posted: 4/10/2014 2:14:25 AM EDT

[#33]

Just got the letter in the mail yesterday. It's official, I'm a danger to myself and those around me. Nevermind that I have CCPs from 2 other states. Or that I have an FFL. IL. knows better.

The letter is dated 04-04-14. I'm waiting to here back from Todd on his most recent trip to Springfield. Hopefully something soon as I will have to file an appeal in a week or so if they don't get the stay on the 30 day window to appeal.

It's been a real character builder.

Posted: 4/10/2014 3:54:29 AM EDT

[#34]

my suggestion is to get your checkbook out and go visit your lawyer. if nothing else you will get some professional advice on how to handle it and what your options are. the law is pretty clear about how one goes about appealing these things.

unfortunately, the standard by which licenses can be denied that is written into the law is very low and almost totally subjective. however, it is not far off from the standard by which other administrative reviews are handled, so they may well be on pretty solid ground legally.

Posted: 4/13/2014 6:58:21 AM EDT

[#35]

You can sue them for employment law violations.

Posted: 6/12/2014 9:19:30 AM EDT

[#36]

So I had my 1st day in court today in DuPage county. The AG's office missed the 35 day window for the appeal but did reply. They did not contact my attorney directly, rather they set up a court date and my attorney had to look for it on the courts call list online. We got there and spoke to an AAG. She stated that they are getting a lot of these cases and have a standard procedure that they go through, but since it's new law, they are working on the procedure as they go.

The AAG asked the court for an additional 45 days to get the records for my case together and sent to my attorney. My attorney told me that I should be getting an UNREDACTED record of the CCRB's denial with the reason for my denial, and the PD that put in the objection. This is of course 45 days down the road. Then he files his brief for me, they file a counter brief and he gets to put in the rebuttal brief. My next court date isn't until Nov., but I should get a court order from the judge telling the ISP to issue my license at that point.

My attorney did an excellent job of getting the stuff figured out and keeping me in the loop.

ETA: I say this because if you are doing this on your own, you have to be vigilant. I would definitely recommend an attorney for your case.

Posted: 6/12/2014 10:22:24 AM EDT

[#37]

What an unconscionable jerk around.

Who is your attorney, Carbon?

Posted: 6/12/2014 10:25:30 AM EDT

[#38]

A right delayed is a right denied.

Wait! That's only for some rights and some people. Never mind...

Posted: 6/12/2014 2:24:37 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
What an unconscionable jerk around.

Who is your attorney, Carbon?

View Quote

Ron Cicinelli. RNC Law out of Oakbrook Terrace. He's the head cook and bottle washer there.

ETA: Full disclosure, He and I are friends and we were police officers together for about 8 yrs. before he left to become an attorney.

Posted: 6/12/2014 3:49:26 PM EDT

[#40]

You were a cop and you got denied?

Did you sleep with the Chief's wife or was it his daughter?

You pissed someone off.

Posted: 6/13/2014 3:50:24 AM EDT

[#41]

Yes I did!!! Piss someone off that is, not sleeping with chief's daughter or wife. But I don't think it was my former PD that sent in the objection. I think it was the PD where I live. Had a domestic battery arrest back in 2004. No conviction, charges were dropped. My wife and I were going through some difficult times and we had started the divorce proceedings. She just played the game better than I did. Anyway, that is the only reason I can see for a PD to object to my application. It still doesn't meet the stated criteria for denial though. By the by, the wife and I are still married and there has been no contact with the local PD since.

Posted: 6/13/2014 6:25:43 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yes I did!!! Piss someone off that is, not sleeping with chief's daughter or wife. But I don't think it was my former PD that sent in the objection. I think it was the PD where I live. Had a domestic battery arrest back in 2004. No conviction, charges were dropped. My wife and I were going through some difficult times and we had started the divorce proceedings. She just played the game better than I did. Anyway, that is the only reason I can see for a PD to object to my application. It still doesn't meet the stated criteria for denial though. By the by, the wife and I are still married and there has been no contact with the local PD since.

View Quote

You definitely want to get the domestic expunged so that the arrest record is officially destroyed. If you have no convictions and that's your only arrest, it will qualify for expungement. If you have any convictions at all, you can only get your records sealed if they meet certain criteria. Getting the arrest record expunged probably won't affect the CCP denial but it's good to tie up loose ends from the past.

http://www.dupageco.org/CourtClerk/3360/

It's a pretty easy process to do, especially in Dupage Co. Go to law library in the courthouse where they have the forms and instructions to walk you through the filing. You fill out 3 forms (petition, order, and verification of certificate), bring them down to the clerk, pay $216 (I think) for the filing fee, and wait several weeks to hear back from the courts that you're record has been expunged/sealed. They might give you a court date to appear back, but I'm not sure about this. And no, I'm not a lawyer.

Posted: 6/13/2014 2:10:23 PM EDT

[#43]

The arrest was expunged a couple of years ago. But these tend to hang around in the county computer system long after they were expunged. I can't wait to see what the objection and the reason for the denial are.

Posted: 6/21/2014 10:49:46 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can't wait to see what the objection and the reason for the denial are.

View Quote

I forsee some 1983 suits being filed once the numerous appeals cases get to that point.

Posted: 6/22/2014 11:37:52 AM EDT

[#45]

What is a 1983 suit?

Posted: 6/22/2014 11:57:05 AM EDT

[#46]

Federal civil rights infringement lawsuit.

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