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cml2501
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Posted: 5/27/2011 11:28:35 AM
I’m looking to buy an old 1903 Colt pistol from a family friend.
It’s an inherited gun (several times), so there is no paperwork and the owner does not have a FOID. How do I legally purchase this gun from him?
monstercat79
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Posted: 5/27/2011 11:47:12 AM
take it to a ffl.
D233
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Posted: 5/27/2011 2:04:49 PM
[Last Edit: 5/27/2011 2:06:30 PM by D233]
If he's in IL, you give him cash, wait 72 hrs, and take possession. He as the seller keeps your info for 10 years (copy of your FOID would be the bset way for him to keep what's required).

No FFL required for in state private sales. BUYER must have FOID.
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jaydee54
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Posted: 5/27/2011 2:39:20 PM
[Last Edit: 5/27/2011 2:40:24 PM by jaydee54]
Seller and buyer must possess a valid foid card.
Read it HERE
I'll never count how many I have. That way I don't have to lie when she asks.
And, yes, I do need another one.
D233
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Posted: 5/28/2011 5:31:11 AM
Originally Posted By jaydee54:
Seller and buyer must possess a valid foid card.
Read it HERE


CHAPTER 430 PUBLIC SAFETY
430 ILCS 65/ Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.

430 ILCS 65/3. (from Ch. 38, par. 83-3) Sec. 3. (a) Except as provided in Section 3a, no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act. In addition, all firearm, stun gun, and taser transfers by federally licensed firearm dealers are subject to Section 3.1.
  (a-5) Any person who is not a federally licensed firearm dealer and who desires to transfer or sell a firearm while that person is on the grounds of a gun show must, before selling or transferring the firearm, request the Department of State Police to conduct a background check on the prospective recipient of the firearm in accordance with Section 3.1.
  (b) Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number. On or after January 1, 2006, the record shall contain the date of application for transfer of the firearm. On demand of a peace officer such transferor shall produce for inspection such record of transfer. If the transfer or sale took place at a gun show, the record shall include the unique identification number. Failure to record the unique identification number is a petty offense.
  (b-5) Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents.
  (c) The provisions of this Section regarding the transfer of firearm ammunition shall not apply to those persons specified in paragraph (b) of Section 2 of this Act. (Source: P.A. 94-6, eff. 1-1-06; 94-284, eff. 7-21-05; 94-353, eff. 7-29-05; 94-571, eff. 8-12-05; 95-331, eff. 8-21-07.)
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YoteSlayer69
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Posted: 5/28/2011 6:33:12 AM
Give him the money. Take the pistol home. Don't say anything to anyone about how you acquired the pistol.
And whatever you do don't talk about it on the Internet.
yadayada
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Posted: 5/28/2011 8:07:31 AM
Ask the seller if they have a FOID. They said yes. Show them yours. Purchase the firearm. Rule says seller must possess FOID. Doesn't say they need to produce it.
sleepercaprice1
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Posted: 5/28/2011 8:15:18 AM
D233 has it right. As long as the buyer has a FOID, the waiting period is observed and the seller keeps a record of the transfer, all's good (legally).
cml2501
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Posted: 5/28/2011 11:07:31 AM
Cool, thanks guys, I've done plenty of transfers, but never with an antique firearm, it seems the seller needs a foid too.
sleepercaprice1
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Posted: 5/28/2011 11:46:12 AM
Originally Posted By cml2501:
Cool, thanks guys, I've done plenty of transfers, but never with an antique firearm, it seems the seller needs a foid too.


I don't read the ordinance that way. To me, the transferee is the buyer, not the seller.

D233
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Posted: 5/28/2011 1:43:55 PM
Originally Posted By sleepercaprice1:
Originally Posted By cml2501:
Cool, thanks guys, I've done plenty of transfers, but never with an antique firearm, it seems the seller needs a foid too.


I don't read the ordinance that way. To me, the transferee is the buyer, not the seller.



The seller needs the FOID to possess the firearm, thus the statement on the ISP site that the seller is "required" to have a FOID. Nothing in the law refers to this directly. This happens a lot when firearms are inherited by a son/daughter. Dad had the FOID, dies, his kids who do not end up owning the guns. Now, they don't want them, but you're going to make them wait 6 weeks to get FOID in hand, if they're eligible, before they can dispose of the firearm?

No... that's why the law only mentions that the BUYER must present a FOID and the seller, if in IL, must keep a record of the buyer's FOID # for 10 years. That along with a 72 hr. (or 24 for long gun) wait period, are the only requirements on the seller's behalf. The sales record must indicate the date of the request for transfer (the purchase request) and the date of the transfer (delivery) - this is for documenting that the mandatory wait period was observed.

Don't make this more difficult than it needs to be.

The seller can legally OWN the firearm once inherited, they just can't POSSESS it under the law until they obtain a FOID. It's a stupidly written law that doesn't take into account real life - such as when a person who already owns firearms moves into Illinois, and isn't allowed to possess them w/o a FOID, but isn't allowed to apply for a FOID until they're an IL resident.
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Tango7
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Posted: 5/28/2011 6:52:04 PM
Originally Posted By jaydee54:
Seller and buyer must possess a valid foid card.
Read it HERE


The ISP is notorious for posting incorrect (from a statutory standpoint) information. While there's the inference the seller has an FOID (since it's a requirement to possess a firearm in IL) the only requirement is for the buyer to present an FOID and have it recorded by the seller.

Read the real law here - Illinois Compiled Statutes 430 ILCS 65/1 - Firearm Owner's Identification Act

no person may knowingly transfer, or cause to be transferred, any firearm, firearm ammunition, stun gun, or taser to any person within this State unless the transferee with whom he deals displays a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card which has previously been issued in his name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.


Transferee = buyer.

Any person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred any firearm, stun gun, or taser shall keep a record of such transfer for a period of 10 years from the date of transfer. Such record shall contain the date of the transfer; the description, serial number or other information identifying the firearm, stun gun, or taser if no serial number is available; and, if the transfer was completed within this State, the transferee's Firearm Owner's Identification Card number.


"person within this State who transfers or causes to be transferred" = seller.
Transferee = buyer.

Originally Posted By D233:

Don't make this more difficult than it needs to be...


This.
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you haven't brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble - Kharn

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KJB
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Posted: 5/29/2011 4:01:10 PM
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Give him the money. Take the pistol home. Don't say anything to anyone about how you acquired the pistol.
And whatever you do don't talk about it on the Internet.


This
mfm691
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Posted: 5/30/2011 7:55:54 PM
Date the receipt for 11 years ago.

(Just kidding!)
AlvinYork
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Posted: 5/30/2011 8:03:31 PM
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Give him the money. Take the pistol home. Don't say anything to anyone about how you acquired the pistol.
And whatever you do don't talk about it on the Internet.


This


Don't know why there is even a question about this.
"I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
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YoteSlayer69
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Posted: 5/30/2011 9:20:22 PM
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By YoteSlayer69:
Give him the money. Take the pistol home. Don't say anything to anyone about how you acquired the pistol.
And whatever you do don't talk about it on the Internet.


This


Don't know why there is even a question about this.


+1
JoseyWales
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Posted: 5/31/2011 8:08:07 PM
Originally Posted By cml2501:
I’m looking to buy an old 1903 Colt pistol from a family friend.
It’s an inherited gun (several times), so there is no paperwork and the owner does not have a FOID. How do I legally purchase this gun from him?


So someone gives me a bag of money over $10k that I know is not ill-gotten. Should I pay taxes on it and report it as income?

There is iron in your words of death for all to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life or death. It shall be life.
sleepercaprice1
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Posted: 5/31/2011 8:25:59 PM
There have been several creative suggestions made, but I believe the OP was looking for info regarding how to conduct the transaction legally.
YoteSlayer69
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Posted: 5/31/2011 8:39:39 PM
Tell the buyer to get a foid card. Have him call you when he gets it than you can do the deal legally. Just to make sure everything goes well IM me the guys name and address. And I'll help him fill out the foid app.
AlvinYork
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Posted: 5/31/2011 8:51:32 PM
Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Originally Posted By cml2501:
I’m looking to buy an old 1903 Colt pistol from a family friend.
It’s an inherited gun (several times), so there is no paperwork and the owner does not have a FOID. How do I legally purchase this gun from him?


So someone gives me a bag of money over $10k that I know is not ill-gotten. Should I pay taxes on it and report it as income?



Don't know about what you would do, but I know what I would do.
"I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally very jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil."
--Ben Franklin
D233
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Posted: 6/1/2011 1:26:33 AM
[Last Edit: 6/1/2011 1:28:56 AM by D233]
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR AN ILLINOIS RESIDENT W/O A FOID CARD WHO INHERITS THE GUN TO SELL IT TO SOMEONE WITH A FOID.

REPEAT:
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR AN ILLINOIS RESIDENT W/O A FOID CARD WHO INHERITS THE GUN TO SELL IT TO SOMEONE WITH A FOID.

ONE LAST TIME:
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR AN ILLINOIS RESIDENT W/O A FOID CARD WHO INHERITS THE GUN TO SELL IT TO SOMEONE WITH A FOID.


ok I'm done shouting... for those of you who claim that this transaction needs to go through an FFL.... let me ask you why.

Because you're going to say that the seller needs a FOID card to possess the gun.

The seller already has the gun, and has no FOID. If you claim that he needs to FOID to sell it to a private buyer in this state, then would he not need one to transfer it to an FFL?

The remedy the seller is looking for is to rid himself of the firearm. His legal options include selling it to a private Illinois resident who is legally permitted to obtain a firearm in IL (i.e. has a FOID).

To the OP... after all this, you owe us pics of the gun after you buy it.
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AWDeity
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Posted: 6/1/2011 1:44:20 AM
Call Lisa Madigan.

Say you want to donate to her reelection campaign fund

_______________

Profit
Tango7
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Posted: 6/1/2011 9:04:35 PM
Originally Posted By D233:
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR AN ILLINOIS RESIDENT W/O A FOID CARD WHO INHERITS THE GUN TO SELL IT TO SOMEONE WITH A FOID.


This. You guys really need to listen.

To the OP... after all this, you owe us pics of the gun after you buy it.


No sh*t.

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you haven't brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble - Kharn

LTC Chessani USMC - TYVM

Keep ur powdr dry- liberty tree's thirsty