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Posted: 1/28/2015 1:06:35 PM EDT
What am I missing? Never heard of a casino that didn't have the odds stacked in their favor big time, I mean really big time. If the Florida Indians build the Kenosha casino, won't millions and millions of hard earned Wisconsin dollars end up in Florida? Won't this occur year after year after year? What is the up side for Wisconsin, if there is one?
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You have been watching to many tv commercials. Sure money would go to Florida. You would have lots and lots of jobs here in Wisconsin. But most of all the majority of the money would be coming from people who live in Illinois. This would have been pay back for their God for saken toll road. Wisconsin lost big time on this one.
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So the money would come from Illinois and go to Florida. Except for a few low end jobs for Wisconsin, what is the up side? The construction jobs would be temporary, but putting up with a bunch of FIBS would be forever, or until they build their own casino.
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More hit and run tactics out of you again I see. You intentionally miss the point so you can further your leftist agenda.
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Thanks for reminding me of the "more horses asses than horses saying". You should get your short fuse checked out, before you have a heart attack.
On a side note, gambling and the lust for more money at the expense of the looser is not a very Christian way of thinking. |
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You have been watching to many tv commercials. Sure money would go to Florida. You would have lots and lots of jobs here in Wisconsin. But most of all the majority of the money would be coming from people who live in Illinois. This would have been pay back for their God for saken toll road. Wisconsin lost big time on this one. View Quote What point did I miss? "SURE THE MONEY WOULD GO TO FLORIDA " is what I said in my first post. Illinois money going to Florida, and Wisconsin wins. That doesn't sound left or right to me, it sounds stupid to me. I guess the Koch brothers didn't have a dog in this fight. |
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What point did I miss? "SURE THE MONEY WOULD GO TO FLORIDA " is what I said in my first post. Illinois money going to Florida, and Wisconsin wins. That doesn't sound left or right to me, it sounds stupid to me. I guess the Koch brothers didn't have a dog in this fight. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You have been watching to many tv commercials. Sure money would go to Florida. You would have lots and lots of jobs here in Wisconsin. But most of all the majority of the money would be coming from people who live in Illinois. This would have been pay back for their God for saken toll road. Wisconsin lost big time on this one. What point did I miss? "SURE THE MONEY WOULD GO TO FLORIDA " is what I said in my first post. Illinois money going to Florida, and Wisconsin wins. That doesn't sound left or right to me, it sounds stupid to me. I guess the Koch brothers didn't have a dog in this fight. With this way of thinking, we shouldn't open any Target stores because the money would go back to Minnesota. Cabela's??? No way, that money just goes to Nebraska. Same thought process would follow with any company owned out of state. |
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Thanks for reminding me of the "more horses asses than horses saying". You should get your short fuse checked out, before you have a heart attack. On a side note, gambling and the lust for more money at the expense of the looser is not a very Christian way of thinking. View Quote No short fuse at all. You certainly misread that. lol Looking back at your posts was amusing. Sure does paint a picture of you. |
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No short fuse at all. You certainly misread that. lol Looking back at your posts was amusing. Sure does paint a picture of you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Thanks for reminding me of the "more horses asses than horses saying". You should get your short fuse checked out, before you have a heart attack. On a side note, gambling and the lust for more money at the expense of the looser is not a very Christian way of thinking. No short fuse at all. You certainly misread that. lol Looking back at your posts was amusing. Sure does paint a picture of you. Let me guess, your computer is in your basement, right? |
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With this way of thinking, we shouldn't open any Target stores because the money would go back to Minnesota. Cabela's??? No way, that money just goes to Nebraska. Same thought process would follow with any company owned out of state. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You have been watching to many tv commercials. Sure money would go to Florida. You would have lots and lots of jobs here in Wisconsin. But most of all the majority of the money would be coming from people who live in Illinois. This would have been pay back for their God for saken toll road. Wisconsin lost big time on this one. What point did I miss? "SURE THE MONEY WOULD GO TO FLORIDA " is what I said in my first post. Illinois money going to Florida, and Wisconsin wins. That doesn't sound left or right to me, it sounds stupid to me. I guess the Koch brothers didn't have a dog in this fight. With this way of thinking, we shouldn't open any Target stores because the money would go back to Minnesota. Cabela's??? No way, that money just goes to Nebraska. Same thought process would follow with any company owned out of state. so a store is like a casino? Guess a casino is like a bank, Right? |
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so a store is like a casino? Guess a casino is like a bank, Right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You have been watching to many tv commercials. Sure money would go to Florida. You would have lots and lots of jobs here in Wisconsin. But most of all the majority of the money would be coming from people who live in Illinois. This would have been pay back for their God for saken toll road. Wisconsin lost big time on this one. What point did I miss? "SURE THE MONEY WOULD GO TO FLORIDA " is what I said in my first post. Illinois money going to Florida, and Wisconsin wins. That doesn't sound left or right to me, it sounds stupid to me. I guess the Koch brothers didn't have a dog in this fight. With this way of thinking, we shouldn't open any Target stores because the money would go back to Minnesota. Cabela's??? No way, that money just goes to Nebraska. Same thought process would follow with any company owned out of state. so a store is like a casino? Guess a casino is like a bank, Right? You can't really be dense enough to think that the only revenue that wisconsin would take away from this would be taxing the guys who mop floors. |
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So, besides the banter here, I have been thinking about this whole thing a lot. Usually when the 'right' does something I can see the logic in it, I may not always like it, but I get it, and realize it's for the best, however this one I don't understand. They WANT us to think it's because of the potential lost money from the potowatomi because of horrible pacts Doyle made....OK, that makes sense. The kenosha tribe then says it will take out a bond and pay back any of that potential loss if in fact Wisconsin does lose. So, unless I'm missing something, that negates the only reason Walker denied it.
It seems that the profits going to Florida or a Wisconsin reservation doesn't help Wisconsin at all. Only the fees on the profits are paid to the state, and that isn't effected by where the rest of the Money goes. Please help me understand this. |
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So, besides the banter here, I have been thinking about this whole thing a lot. Usually when the 'right' does something I can see the logic in it, I may not always like it, but I get it, and realize it's for the best, however this one I don't understand. They WANT us to think it's because of the potential lost money from the potowatomi because of horrible pacts Doyle made....OK, that makes sense. The kenosha tribe then says it will take out a bond and pay back any of that potential loss if in fact Wisconsin does lose. So, unless I'm missing something, that negates the only reason Walker denied it. It seems that the profits going to Florida or a Wisconsin reservation doesn't help Wisconsin at all. Only the fees on the profits are paid to the state, and that isn't effected by where the rest of the Money goes. Please help me understand this. View Quote Yeah, I'm sort of lost on this whole thing too. From the start, the proposed jobs numbers were BS (most being temp construction jobs and the permanent jobs coming from FL) which turned me off to the idea from the start. Past that... |
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Whether or not WI would get enough of the "jobs and money" is kind of irrelevant to me. It wouldn't have cost us, not counting the compact fight with the Potawatomi. And it would have used the defunct dog track site. A minor net gain in ancillary development like gas stations etc. nearby just from the traffic is probably enough to do it.
And the upside is that in the ensuing fight, we'd most likely win in fed court, and with the Indian affairs bureau and the Potawatomi would be reined in a bit. I think the BIGGER issue is that this proves that Scott Walker isn't the "warrior" everyone let Act 10 and the recall efforts against him led many of us to think he is. Everyone forgets he offered the .gov and teachers unions a plan with minor concessions of a few percentage points, all he wanted was just enough to balance the state budget, but they made the big mistake of telling him to FOAD every time, until he had no choice, and since he knew it would be a shitstorm, might as well go for the brass-ring. He'll fight the good fight, but ONLY if his back is in a corner and he has no choice. It's clear to me that whenever Walker has a path-of-least resistance or easy out, he'll take it. Right as he's making his run in national politics, he's not listening to his base right here in WI. His milquetoast reaction to Right-to-Work and some other issues, like not having a raging hard-on to gut the GAB and rebuild it as something bearing some semblance to sanity prove it. Instead of hard-charging, and working to pass every little bit of the conservative agenda they can like they're going to be turned out of office next week, and setting up every last permanent structural change possible in state government to limit the Democrats ability to re-fuck the state if/when they gain power back. Instead he's following the pattern of what the GOP ALWAYS DOES, winning, doing one or two big things, then sitting on their ass. |
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I'm having a hard time understanding both sides of this issue too.
One one hand, the pro-casino side is claiming 3K jobs, but aren't saying how many of those are permanent, or might be created by secondary business' (aforementioned gas stations, etc, which won't be too many really). No WI casino I've been to has been big enough to have 3K people to run, including the usually attached hotel. The gaming floors are actually relatively small. They also tout the income to the state, but I haven't pinned down any amounts, guaranteed or not. On the other side, the opponents, there is a claim that allowing another casino to open voids the current gambling compact with the state, and allows the tribes to withhold tens of millions (cost of 100million has been bandied about too) in payments to the state. Doubts about the jobs numbers, and claims that Walker might also be morally opposed to gambling (even as he bets with other governors over football games). This is one issue where I can't seem to find solid numbers to support either side. I've also heard that the Potowatomi are promising to post some kind of bond to cover losses to the state? Vicki McKenna is almost rabid in her support for the casino for some reason. |
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Need to change the state welcome signs at the borders now.
"Open for business, unless your an indian..." |
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So the money would come from Illinois and go to Florida. Except for a few low end jobs for Wisconsin, what is the up side? The construction jobs would be temporary, but putting up with a bunch of FIBS would be forever, or until they build their own casino. View Quote And then like many other casinos, it would go broke and the Florida Indians would have to eat the loss. Ancient Chinese American Indian saying: Make money with other peoples money. Typically speaking the Middleman rarely loses. If you are tired of FIBs there is plenty of affordable housing in Northern WI and some jobs too. Our Northern FIBs are in general, nicer than your Southern FIB's. |
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I'm having a hard time understanding both sides of this issue too. One one hand, the pro-casino side is claiming 3K jobs, but aren't saying how many of those are permanent, or might be created by secondary business' (aforementioned gas stations, etc, which won't be too many really). No WI casino I've been to has been big enough to have 3K people to run, including the usually attached hotel. The gaming floors are actually relatively small. They also tout the income to the state, but I haven't pinned down any amounts, guaranteed or not. On the other side, the opponents, there is a claim that allowing another casino to open voids the current gambling compact with the state, and allows the tribes to withhold tens of millions (cost of 100million has been bandied about too) in payments to the state. Doubts about the jobs numbers, and claims that Walker might also be morally opposed to gambling (even as he bets with other governors over football games). This is one issue where I can't seem to find solid numbers to support either side. I've also heard that the Potowatomi are promising to post some kind of bond to cover losses to the state? Vicki McKenna is almost rabid in her support for the casino for some reason. View Quote I'm sure the 3K jobs figure is inflated, and counts every last vendor, and construction worker that would ever step foot in the casino for a brief period of time. That said, it would still have been better than "nothing" and under the current compacts, each tribe's casino passes a few hundred million or whatever to the WI .gov every year directly as part of the agreement. Bitching that the Seminoles would "take all the money to Florida" was a big "so what?" The state would have still got it's millions in payments one way or another. And it was millions that wouldn't exist if there's no casino so nothing's lost. (The gamblers themselves? Fuck em. But then I'm the kind of guy who'd "treat" a drug addict by setting up two tables, one with a plane ticket to a rehab clinic, and one with an overdose of heroin and syringes, and a couple bottles of Everclear for something to drink, and walk out of the room and let the addict decide...) It's true that the shitty Doyle compacts did state that without unanimous agreement from all tribes, another casino couldn't open, and if the state approves it anyway, the agreement was void. However that didn't mean that the Indian casinos got to operate free and clear in perpetuity and didn't have to pay WI anymore. Just that the Indian gambling casino compacts with the fed.gov bureau of Indian affairs and WI would hammer out new compacts. And then after the pissing and moaning, the fed.gov Indian arbitrators and federal court would rule, and some new agreement, probably BETTER than Doyle's shitty ones would be in place. It wasn't a sure thing, but the federal courts and the bureau of Indian affairs have NEVER once sided with the tribes in any State vs. Indian tribe casino dispute. It's looking to me more and more like Walker is going to be a one-hit wonder with Act 10 and CCW, and eliminating the double-dip taxes for WI businesses with out-state officers. I hope I'm wrong, but his cowardice on Right to Work and now the Casino seems to be a trend. If this guy can't stand up to a bunch of fat diabetic Indians in downtown Milwaukee in the east end of the Pigsville valley, especially after the hell Act 10 put him and his family through, how the hell are we supposed to believe he can stand up to Putin, China, Iran, or ISIS if he's POTUS? |
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Need to change the state welcome signs at the borders now. "Open for business, unless your an indian..." View Quote REALLY? What non-indian owns a casino in Wisconsin? They have a monopoly on casinos in the state and the Potowatami don't wan't any other tribes coming into their area. |
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Let me guess, your computer is in your basement, right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Thanks for reminding me of the "more horses asses than horses saying". You should get your short fuse checked out, before you have a heart attack. On a side note, gambling and the lust for more money at the expense of the looser is not a very Christian way of thinking. No short fuse at all. You certainly misread that. lol Looking back at your posts was amusing. Sure does paint a picture of you. Let me guess, your computer is in your basement, right? Lol Wrong answer. Try again. |
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I think the extra jobs and revenue would be great but from my very limited scope of the casino industry, I would think crime rates go up and area home values go down. Just trying to look for any bright side there may be.
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Whether or not WI would get enough of the "jobs and money" is kind of irrelevant to me. It wouldn't have cost us, not counting the compact fight with the Potawatomi. And it would have used the defunct dog track site. A minor net gain in ancillary development like gas stations etc. nearby just from the traffic is probably enough to do it. And the upside is that in the ensuing fight, we'd most likely win in fed court, and with the Indian affairs bureau and the Potawatomi would be reined in a bit. I think the BIGGER issue is that this proves that Scott Walker isn't the "warrior" everyone let Act 10 and the recall efforts against him led many of us to think he is. Everyone forgets he offered the .gov and teachers unions a plan with minor concessions of a few percentage points, all he wanted was just enough to balance the state budget, but they made the big mistake of telling him to FOAD every time, until he had no choice, and since he knew it would be a shitstorm, might as well go for the brass-ring. He'll fight the good fight, but ONLY if his back is in a corner and he has no choice. It's clear to me that whenever Walker has a path-of-least resistance or easy out, he'll take it. Right as he's making his run in national politics, he's not listening to his base right here in WI. His milquetoast reaction to Right-to-Work and some other issues, like not having a raging hard-on to gut the GAB and rebuild it as something bearing some semblance to sanity prove it. Instead of hard-charging, and working to pass every little bit of the conservative agenda they can like they're going to be turned out of office next week, and setting up every last permanent structural change possible in state government to limit the Democrats ability to re-fuck the state if/when they gain power back. Instead he's following the pattern of what the GOP ALWAYS DOES, winning, doing one or two big things, then sitting on their ass. View Quote I'm starting to notice this as well. |
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The issue died when Jim Doyle sold out to the Potowatami Tribe. Before he was Governor, Doyle was a graduate of Harvard Law School and the Wisconsin Attorney General. If anyone thinks their pact is not bullet proof, he or she is sadly mistaken.
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