I've been reading some of the comments on the Wisconsin Board about the upcoming deer hunt, and the low deer numbers being seen throughout different parts of the state.   I know a lot of frustrated hunters who spend thousands of dollars on licenses, equipment, gas, land lease fees, lodging, and food...  and are tired of seeing no deer.  Now, granted, I have no scientific studies to back up my claims,,,  Only what I hear in conversation.    

When complaining about deer numbers, the wolf is only a breath or two behind.  Sure, recent cold winters are part of it.  But I'm hearing that the DNR would rather "pique the ire" of hunters and gun folk, than they would the progressive liberal pro-wolf crowd.  So, the DNR deliberately under estimates and mismanages the wolf population - so I hear,    

If this path continues, the law of unintended consequences will rear its ugly head, and the wolf will once again be targeted by men -  namely hunters who blame them for low deer numbers. Add to that record payouts for wolf predation on livestock and domestic animals, and you have the ranchers and farmers pissed too!  It's a complete recipe for disaster.  

I regularly hear cavalier talk about the three S's.  If the DNR doesn't control the wolf numbers - and soon - then human nature tells us that man will do it for them.    

In the latest issue of Wisconsin Outdoor News, on page 26 if you subscribe, there's a "letter to editor" in which the author talks about food plots that he and others have been maintaining (since late 1960s) on their hunting land in eastern Forest & western Florence counties. This year, one of their trail cameras had 75 pics on it when they checked it recently. They included one deer, 4 crows, one grouse, 2 raccoons, 4 bears, one hunter & his dog, various other small birds.... and 26 pics of wolves.

eta: Is it any surprise that the wolf hunting/trapping season in this guy's zone lasted only 3 days before the quota was reached?!?!

Last year was the first time anyone in our camp I Polk county saw a wolf.  The same year we found two wolf kill sites where they had feasted on deer.  

This year one of our guys saw two wolves while bow hunting.  One wolf decided to sit about 40 yards from the tree and watch him the entire time he was in his stand.

I only hope I am blessed by the hunting gods to see a wolf in the wild during deer season this year.  It will be fun watching them do wolf things in the forest.

Oh, and we have no deer.  They are pretty much gone.

Well that is fantastic news. That is right where I will be hunting this weekend.

I have said it before, it is a huge deal!

We have to keep a few things in mind:
1) the whitetail population has seen many decades without a substantial wolf predator population. As animals of learned instinct deer learn successful avoidance traits from their communities. These instincts during low predator numbers through the decades are lost. Once those predators are reintroduced into the environment the deer lack the evasive techniques to deal with the threat.

2) a large population of unwitting prey leads to an exponential growth in predator numbers as they have a large food supply & breeding becomes a non-issue.

3) an instinct of response of over hunting by malicious predators results also in many of that population to flee to areas of less predatory impact. They will not hang around an area where their safety is at jeopardy. Would you?

4) wolves are very effective hunters & in the limited sparseness of open range the prey simply can not escape their predatory zones. They will be found & they will be killed to the point of near extinction. We are not the only predator that exhibits this behavior. We are secondary to this to wolves due to us having legislative restrictions to the hunting of deer. Wolves have no such limitation. It is hunt every day & every night, where ever they may roam.

5) once again we will see that when deer & other animals lack the substantial numbers to feed the population growth there WILL be greater occurring events of cattle & livestock being attacked as well as encroachment on human populous. We will be repeating the exact events that lead to the near extermination of wolf populations in the past.... History repeats itself again.

I know from talking with even more people since the last time I have commented on this that sightings, & shooting of wolves has increased. Much of this increase have been by bear hunters whom their greatest fear is to have a dog stray into a pack of wolves. That dog will be chewed to pieces in a matter of minutes. I have seen pictures where within minutes nothing but the head, legs & remaining skeleton have remained. This was with the hunter only less than a 1/4 mile away with tracking collars monitoring their movement.

Wolves are the single greatest threat to deer hunting success in Northern WI. No if ands or butts about it. The DNR has purposely laid the ground work for a catastrophic decline in deer population with their progressively fueled reintroduction of this voracious predator.

We do not have a significant Wolf population in central Oconto County and deer population is down.  Coincidence does not equal correlation.   Man and Bear kill far more deer than wolves do.  
If 1 bear kills 1 fawn each year, then bears kill ~30,000 fawns each year.          This is nearly 3X the number of deer killed by wolves annually in WI.  
According to the Wisconsin DNR,----- "Each wolf kills about 20 deer per year. Multiply this by the number of wolves found in Wisconsin in recent years (630), and approximately 13,000 deer may be consumed by wolves annually.
This compares to over 40,000 deer hit by cars each year, and about 450,000 deer shot annually by hunters statewide. Within the northern and central forests where most wolves live, wolves kill similar numbers of deer as are killed by vehicles (about 13,000), and about 1/10 of those killed by hunters (127,000 in 2008). Wolves are a factor in the deer herd, but only one of many factors that affects the total number of deer on the landscape"


The science does not support  your premise.  http://themetapicture.com/when-they-brought-these-wolves/

Look on the bright side.... after this coming winter (which I do believe will be just as bad, or worse, than the record setting winter of last year) wipes out whatever's left of the deer, the wolf population will begin to decline due to lack of prey. Those that switch to feeding on livestock will be much closer to interaction with man, and will be shot on sight. <sarcasm> End of problem. </sarcasm>

The fact that the proposed 4 month long wolf season was over in 3 days in some areas, and less than a month statewide, does not support the number of wolves estimated to be in WI.

630?

This girl is in my back yard every day.  (pic taken from my back door about 2 weeks ago, my kids named her Beatris)


upload an image

The road I live on is one of those hilly roads surrounded by woods on both sides, tons of deer running around.  My BIL's land (in the Watertown area) has plenty of deer.  He just took a 8pt last week.  

I haven't seen them in the corn fields this year as much as last year, but they seem to be moving around here in the SE.  

I have seen a metric shit load of turkeys this year, they're all over the place down here, but seem pretty skinny.

I knew someone was going to show the propagandist & completely unrelated areas of YNP into the picture. Read my statement again & you will se an entirely different demographic in quantitative variances. There is a vast difference between the uninhabited & colossally remote areas of YNP vs northern WI.

Like comparing apples & hand grenades.

The DNR has been lying about how many they have introduced. There have been numerous accounts of land owners that have reported multiple wolf releases that have not been acknowledged or reported.

Like I said, all it takes is a little pressure & the deer are going to scoot. Read it again... The hunting pressure alone will cause a change in deer habitat & movement. A deer can travel over 20miles in a single night. Multiply that by several months of extended migration & you can easily have dispersions of well over several hundred miles.

This does not also take into account deer populations moving into areas of safety such as surrounding areas of towns & villages. Just in our area we have noticed town deer populations increasing in the last few years. Some time coincidences aren't coincidences at all, they are cause & effect.

In my area people have been seeing more wolves than deer. My county & Douglas have now had antlerless tags removed. Buck only.... Polk county, which is more populated / acre has antlerless tags available. Not near the sitings down there of wolves as in Burnett & Douglas county. Wolves do not have to kill deer to impact their habits.

To the other comment about bears. Bear are not simply carnivores. They are omnivores & as such derive a much less portion of their diet from deer.

Troll much for the DNR do ya?

The DNR doesn't even need to release wolves for this to get out of control fast.  A female will produce 4-6 pups a year.  With pack sizes being smaller, food being plentiful, and having abundant area for expansion, a high percentage of females will produce a litter every year.  This means that the wolf population can grow extremely rapidly.




 

With all due respect...  Are you speaking about the same "science" that is considered settled when it comes to climate change/global warming?  That science?  The "science" as you claim is completely manipulated to serve the purpose of the wolf lovers.  If you believe that there are only 630 wolves in Wisconsin, I should just stop here.  Because you are obviously too naive to continue a rational discussion with.  Just 10 years ago, there were an estimated million deer in WI.  We had cold winters back then.  The number of deer/car accidents in Wisconsin have dropped over the past 10 years.   There is no great disease decimating the deer population.  The only variable is the purposely underestimated wolf population.  The science....   Unbelievable.

I don't think the wolf population has made its way south as far as Watertown yet. You're probably still OK.

Perfectly said.  

Based on what I've heard, (Unless they are just spewing bravado) I have no doubt that the locals in the area where I hunt will shoot them dead if they see them.

A guy in East Troy had trail camera pictures of one last winter.
It made my 135# shepherd look small.

Price county, I see wolves all the time.  Last year I saw some biologists with radio tracking equipment just around the bend from home, I assumed wolves. This year I saw one with a radio collar.  The other day at the bar closest to home while practicing my darts for said bars team and cheering Gods football team to victory, Nebraska, I met a few guys up for deer season.  Turns out they own land near me and were discussing some of the things they were told about wolves in the area.  Once I realized where their land was, I offered to draw them a map showing exactly where the wolves were crossing it.  They were not overjoyed.  I focused on the positive, I see more deer there then anywhere else so the wolves were there too.......

I know when they are close because my Labs will step out and not move for a few moments, even minutes while they work the wind and just sit and watch the area/direction the wolves would be coming from.  They don't bark, make a sound of any kind.  I am talking they won't set foot to even take a piss without double checking.  I know they were out there the other night only by the dogs behavior, I could not hear them or see them even with a spotlight.  The next day you see the tracks following the same general movements of deer.  It is what it is, but I am not looking for a close encounter on a dark night walking out to the garage or mailbox.  The dog scent seems to run off the bears but draw the wolves and coyotes in.

While we live in what is called the most geographically isolated area of Wisconsin, I can show you an area a wolf came through and yes there may be thousands of acres of forest, but turn around and a 100 yards away is home, with big wheels and toys of typical 2-3 year old children.  It's a lifestyle choice to be here, but my point is the Wolves don't avoid Man altogether or I would never see them where I do and in broad daylight.  They have plenty of space to run, they run where the deer are running, people or no people.  Now where do you see the most deer?

WHAT?????

Ahhhh yes, the whole "We know every thing & you don't because we are smarter than you."

It is a fact that every check-in station in the three county area has seen a dramatic drop in deer registering has coincided with the rise of the Wolf population is not something I am going to take as coincidence. I am not saying they have been killed, I am saying they are:
1) no longer in the area, or
2) have become so largely nocturnal so as to have a detrimental impact on our hunting success in this area.

I have had the privilege of living & studying deer populations in a number of states. Deer respond to hunting pressure plain & simple. They are evasive & smart creatures. They will migrate to an area of stable food source & safety in a matter of a year or so. They will also choose safety over ample food sources in a heart beat.

As you said, once introduced their is no real way to completely monitor number growth in real time.

While I definitely agree with some of the posters about both the wolf and bear numbers being under estimated, there are many things that we as hunters and landowners can do to combat these problems.  

1.  If you look at the habitat in northern Wisconsin, you will see many changes over the past 30 years.  The land parcels are getting smaller and frequently bought by people that have no clue how to properly manage forests.  Without the logging that used to occur, a lot of the winter browse and yarding areas are gone.  If you can see more than 50-100 yards in a woods, that woods doesn't have the browse and hiding areas to support the deer numbers that we used to see.  Get out your chain saw and start working on habitat.  Plant some food plots or some apple trees (fence them until they get big) or any other sort of fruit/mast producing tree.  Fertilize your existing mast producing trees and cut out garbage trees that are interfering with your mast producing trees.  
2.  Wolves and bears are not the only predators.  If you don't like the idea of the 3 S's, then start with something legal like coyotes.  My family has 80 acres in Marquette County and while we don't have a wolves (yet), we do have a huge coyote problem.  I contacted a local trapper on Wisconsin Trapper's Association.  He trapped 7 coyotes last year and didn't start until after the gun deer season.  He will be back out there again this year.  
3.  Just because the DNR issues doe tags in your particular county, only you know what's going on for your particular property.  Without Earn a Buck, nothing says you have to use those tags.  
4.  Talk with your neighbors and get them on board as well.  Yes, this means actually having a face to face conversation and not just complaining on a message board!  
5.  Shoot, shovel, and shut up.  The most important part being the shut up part.  

Besides complaining on message boards about the low deer numbers, think about what you can do to help improve the situation.  

I have a sneaking suspicion that # 5 happens...kinda like bowel movements...

Wow!!  I had not heard of any that far south.   Thanks for that info.

This is a message board....   It's what we do here....

http://www.news.wisc.edu/21272

We have 160 acres in Barron County. Wolves on deer cams all the time, I personally saw 3 last hunting season over the course of the week. They're all over up here.

Again, elitist interpretive data...

"As near as I can tell from DNR harvest and monitoring data, wolves are not causing a dramatic decrease in the growth rate of the deer population, and whatever level of competition is occurring must be trivial," says Van Deelen. "There are hunters who are unlucky to have a bad experience at the local level, but at the statewide level, I am not seeing significant wolf impacts"



Interpretation:

Well we want them & seeing as how they are "trivial" is that we term as Unimportant... Cause I don't live there so I don't care.

These we deem "unlucky" in the "Bad" experiences are crazy & not worth our consideration.

Sorry dude but posting more ideologically fueled liberalist propaganda doesn't exempt the real world impact, as they themselves admit, is hard to determine... & let's not forget the expensive part.

So what is the answer? That part is simple; more .gov spending to determine an indeterminate function that they choose to see...

Sorry but these so called experts are no longer considered valid by the hunting population in areas populated with increasing wolf sightings & decreasing dear hunting success. It is more jargon that, is by their own admission, difficult to validate through their means... Not to them to predicate an acknowledgement of reality. Which they do, but they spin it to fit their distinct narrative.

Keep on Trollin'...

I'm sure you are a real nice guy but we are just not buying it.

I'll readily admit that the following is not scientific, cannot be proven, and is just my opinion based upon 5 decades of experience and personal observations... but here goes.

Some background info.... In less than 72 hours, I will venture into the WI woods for my 50th gun deer season. I hunted in the Mauston - Necedah area from 1964-1972, in the Mercer area from 1973-1980, in the Pembine area from 1981-1990, and in the Nicolet, east of Eagle River/Three Lakes, since 1991 (bow hunted Nicolet too, til 2006). The deer populations were moderate in the Mauston area in the 1960's, very low in the 70s near Mercer, moderate to high near Pembine in the 80s, and moderate to very high from the early 90s to about 2003. Since 2005 or 2006 they have plummeted. And I mean off the charts plummeted. I killed anywhere from 1-4 deer every season from 1991-2004, with bow & rifle, at least one buck each year, the rest does. Since 2004, I have not fired a shot (at a deer). I quit bowhunting after the 2006 season (when I did not see a single buck all season, and very few does).

I saw my first WI wolf in the Mercer area in 1976, while snowmobiling in February. Didn't see another until 2002, in the Nicolet, and that was while ice-fishing in the very early morning in March. I had never encountered a coyote in the woods neither, until about 1999. Since 2006, I have seen more wolves and more coyotes (and even bear) than I have seen deer, during gun deer season or other hunting seasons, living here full time. Now we all know that once the shooting starts, deer become super evasive. But that's not new behavior that began in 2006. You have to see deer to shoot deer, and that was no problem all those years prior to the wolf & coyote sightings increasing in the early 2000s.  


Coincidence that predator sightings went up dramatically, followed shortly by a drastic drop in deer sightings? Maybe... but if it is, it's a coincidence I share with thousands of others in their particular neck of the woods. No scientific correlation other than, "where there's smoke, there's fire"... and "don't piss down my neck and tell me it's raining" .

Just like mice... if you see one, or catch one in your house, you've probably got 10 more. If you see one wolf, there's likely 5-10 more in it's pack nearby that you did not see.

My whole point is, my experiences make me sincerely believe that there's far more wolves in WI than 630. Like at least double that.

I remember seeing a map that the DNR had up for a little while but pulled down rather quickly.

It was a map showing the ranges for wolves in WI and the likelihood of wolves living in a specific area.

The map was a joke.  I showed our area as a likely area for wolves to pass thru but not conducive to them taking up residence.  There were other areas that had the same designation.  

I wish I could find that map.

Yeah, that 630 number is hilarious, as is the "20 deer per year". It's probably more like 2,000 wolves, and 1 deer per week per wolf. That's 104,000 deer, and wolves go for the easy targets like pregnant females, so that's a lot more damaging to the herd than 100k taken by hunters. And since the wolves are mostly in the top half of the state, obviously that concentrates their damage there. The southern half (with it's CWD) is overpopulated, and the northern half is underpopulated.

With such an incompetent DNR, it's no wonder that everyone laughs about the 3S rule.

just wait until it is more than stragglers moving south because they have eaten their way out of the food available up north.

630 statewide? That may be one of the greatest lies ever told by one of the worst game/predator management agencies in history. Douglas and Bayfield counties have been hammered by these amazingly proficient killers. At least many folks are starting to become fed up enough to actually do something about it. S S S seems to be more and more utilized every year. It's quite a leap by the huggers to call varmint culling poaching.




 

Yessir already happening last year they had pack posted for the woods around Cazenovia which I can't find anymore

The wolf depredation numbers are increasing and moving southward at an alarming rate...imo

First year I was home from RVN 1970 I was around Bayfield area an we spotted a couple of wolves and went into DNR headquarters to report it

They gave us the bums rush outta there were terse and hostile denying there were any wolves in Wi

saw a very nice buck opening day he was hauling ass big grey wolf right behind him didn't think id ever see one outside green bay

I know they are established in Kewaunee Co.

 

I live in Douglas County and hunt in Douglas, Bayfield, and Ashland.

Anyone who thinks the wolves aren't playing a big role up here in the deer population is deluded.  I live next to a cattle farm and one of the guys I work with also raises cattle.  In one year my buddy shot 6 wolves, and the DNR trapped another 3.  My neighbors quit with their cattle operation this year in part due to the depradation by wolves.

My old hunting area around Brule has become so overrun that I see more wolf tracks than deer tracks.  And in a year I'll see an equal number of deer and wolves... so fuck the DNR saying there's only 650 in the state.  There's probably at least that many between the 3 northern counties.

I quit hunting around Brule because of it, and the last two times I went calling for coyotes I called in wolves instead.  

There's a reason our ancestors eradicated the wolf population in this state.  Fuck wolves and fuck the liberal mindset that has allowed them to return in numbers.

I hunt in Washburn County.  I didn't see a deer this year and I hunted steady sun up to sun down for 5 days.  I saw 4 deer in my last 2 years deer hunting.  This same area use to have a very large deer population.  Last year was the first time I came across a wolf track in my 22 years of deer hunting.  I don't want to blame wolves for the lack of deer numbers but it's hard to avoid the correlation.  

I live in Jefferson County.  I think it's time to find somewhere in southern WI to hunt.