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Posted: 2/16/2012 3:18:47 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 3:19:16 PM by eclark53520]
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Originally Posted By eclark53520:
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Originally Posted By dayphotog:
Ok what happens if you leave home and forget your wallet with CCW? I have done this twice in my life. Now with CCW thrown in there what is the low down. I have had friends pulled over without their license and the police just look them up and they are good to go. I don't see forgetting my wallet but it can happen. I keep the a paper copy of the paper that came with my CCW and the license number written on it just incase in my car. thanks If your are carrying a concealed weapon, How do you forget your Permit? Do not do this, it is your responsibility to have your permit on you at all times. Shit happens.... That's the reason we carry weapons. Things don't always go as planned. So there is a chance one could forget their license. As i said above, there are provisions for this...it's good to know what you can do if that situation arises. So your saying shit happens? you might shoot a little old lady? or your foot? or drop your gun in a restaurant? I disagree with your statement 100%. A responsible ccw person does not have a "shit happens" attitude when carrying. The law is to have your permit on you and show it to LEO. Same goes with CC, people are not supposed to know you are carrying so no shit dont happen. Be responsible. I know my handgun will never show when I am carrying, I know my handgun will never fall out onto the floor when I am carrying and I know my Permit is in my wallet which is in my back pocket when I am carrying. End of story. There is no room for mistakes when carrying a concealed weapon, if there is you are being irresponsible and making all the other permit holders look bad. 
You take ridiculous to a whole new level don't you? |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 3:37:03 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 3:40:19 PM by FMD]
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Yup, 'cause forgetting your wallet is exactly like shooting a little old lady.
Intersting that you insist that there's an absolute requirement to carry your permit, when the actual law instead provides a window of time after the fact to produce said permit. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile (2g) CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON; POSSESSION AND DISPLAY OF LICENSE DOCUMENT OR AUTHORIZATION. (a) A licensee or an out−of−state licensee may carry a concealed weapon anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r. (b) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee shall have with him or her his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee shall have with him or her his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card at all times during which he or she is carrying a concealed weapon. (c) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority. I guess that answers that question.............. Keep reading up to section 175.60 (17) (17) Penalties.
(a) Any person who violates sub. (2g) (b) or (c) may be required to forfeit not more than $25, except that the person shall be exempted from the forfeiture if the person presents, within 48 hours, his or her license document or out-of-state license and photographic identification to the law enforcement agency that employs the requesting law enforcement officer. "Shit happens" actually is an excuse in this instance, as long as you can prove you really do have a permit. ETA: Bigern, you seem to be new here. Welcome, strap in, and enjoy the ride... but understand that there are some pretty knowledgeable folks here who won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 3:43:15 PM
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Sorry didnt mean to confuse you: no there my not be a law about not letting people know you are carrying concealed but whats the point, And if you are in an area that does not allow open carry yes it is illegal for your concealed carry to show or be known. Thats the whole point of CONCEALED CARRY. 
Bigern, please post the relevant statute or (since there is no relevant statute) just go ahead and retract your statement. Please. |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 3:55:35 PM
Sorry, Yes I am new here. I will bow down to the guys with the most posts.........
Ok not really. Like I said, no there is no law that says you have to keep your firearm concealed at all times and never let it show?????? Thats why responsible CC people wave their firearms around in bars, restaurants, malls, and banks. I guess thats why so many people try so hard for their weapon to not print, fall out, or SHOW. But hey you all can do whatever you want, a newbie like me knows nothing anyway, right? Just treat your permit like your firearm and you will never forget it. After all, a concealed carry permit is the base for a concealed carry handgun. |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:06:37 PM
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Sorry, Yes I am new here. I will bow down to the guys with the most posts......... Ok not really. Like I said, no there is no law that says you have to keep your firearm concealed at all times and never let it show?????? Thats why responsible CC people wave their firearms around in bars, restaurants, malls, and banks. I guess thats why so many people try so hard for their weapon to not print, fall out, or SHOW. But hey you all can do whatever you want, a newbie like me knows nothing anyway, right? Just treat your permit like your firearm and you will never forget it. After all, a concealed carry permit is the base for a concealed carry handgun. Would you like to buy a bigger shovel? |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:08:32 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 4:14:42 PM by bigern26]
Originally Posted By FMD:
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Sorry didnt mean to confuse you: no there my not be a law about not letting people know you are carrying concealed but whats the point, And if you are in an area that does not allow open carry yes it is illegal for your concealed carry to show or be known. Thats the whole point of CONCEALED CARRY.
Bigern, please post the relevant statute or (since there is no relevant statute) just go ahead and retract your statement. Please. A licensee or out of state licensee may carry a concealed weapon in a tavern only if they are not consuming alcohol on the premises. Wis. Stat. § 941.237(3)(cx). Another example would be a city ordinance that prohibits open carry within the city limits. |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:11:39 PM
Please check your IMs. Again: Note that this is the "official" CCW FAQ on this forum.
Post count has nothing to do with it. Accuracy in relating the statutes and what is lawful/legal and acceptable behavior does. So far, your responses have not accurately reflected what is lawful, legal or acceptable behavior from a permit holder according to the statutes, rather you have related your opinion on what should acceptable behavior by permit holders. There are a select few that can offer their opinion and have it hold weight based on their job description/occupation... so unless you're working for or with a three letter state agency, have a law degree, or were appointed/elected to a government position that deals directly with the administration of the CCW statutes, it might behoove you to double-check your facts before getting your feelings hurt if/when someone corrects an erroneous point or challenges you to prove an assertion with the actual state statute. As the originator of this thread I have deferred to those who are closer to the issue and can give a more accurate answer than I can. I would suggest you do the same. |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:17:25 PM
Originally Posted By bigern26:
A licensee or out of state licensee may carry a concealed weapon in a tavern only if they are not consuming alcohol on the premises. Wis. Stat. § 941.237(3)(cx). Here's the actual statute: 941.237 Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed.
(2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any premises for which a Class "B" or "Class B" license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor. (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following: (cx) A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g), if the licensee or out-of-state licensee is not consuming alcohol on the premises. Where does it mention concealed or open carry of a firearm? Do you see what I mean about being absolutely sure before you post? |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:20:06 PM
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Another example would be a city ordinance that prohibits open carry within the city limits. Any city ordinance that flat-out prohibits open carry within the city limits was invalidated long ago. I'll do a quick search to come up with the relevant statutes and case law. 
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:25:47 PM
please do!
I love to lean new thing and to be proven wrong :) |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:34:14 PM
Does a permit allow a person to Open carry within 1000 feet of a public school or only Concealed?
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:39:11 PM
Summary from the Legislative Reference Bureau:
STATE PREEMPTION OF LOCAL GUN CONTROL ORDINANCES
Wisconsin and approximately 40 other states preempt local authority to regulate firearms. 1995 Wisconsin Act 72 prohibited local ordinances that would exceed state regulation of the sale, use, possession, carrying, transportation, licensing, registration, or taxation of firearms [s. 66.092]. Ordinances that are no more stringent than state law are permitted. For example, municipalities may restrict the discharge of firearms within municipal boundaries. Act 72 invalidated existing local controls on the purchase, possession, and use of handguns in municipalities around the state, including ordinances in Eau Claire, Green Bay, La Crosse, Madison, Milwaukee, Racine, Sheboygan, Stevens Point, Superior, and Wausau. The cite above is actually missing a few numbers. The actual statute text from s. 66.0409(2): 66.0409(2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
For the record, sub paragraphs 3 & 4 deal with sales tax, discharge, and ordinances that are worded identically to state statute, but you can double-check that at the link above. Act 35 added the following subparagraph to 66.0409: (6) Unless other facts and circumstances that indicate a criminal or malicious intent on the part of the person apply, no person may be in violation of, or be charged with a violation of, an ordinance of a political subdivision relating to disorderly conduct or other inappropriate behavior for loading, carrying, or going armed with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is loaded or is concealed or openly carried. Any ordinance in violation of this subsection does not apply and may not be enforced.
Are you satisfied, or should I try to find some case law? |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:40:57 PM
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Does a permit allow a person to Open carry within 1000 feet of a public school or only Concealed? The statute does not address how the firearm is carried, so a permit holder would be able to do either - as long as the permit holder stayed off of school grounds. *sigh* Do I need to pull that up and quote it as well? |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:49:45 PM
cool thanks for that.
Just to get things strait then, (not being a smart ass) So what you are really saying is it it legal for my firearm to show while I am concealed carry(be it my barrel, holster, or grip)? I can open carry everywhere in WI that I can concealed carry? I do not need to carry my permit? When I go to a restaurant that allows concealed carry I can take it out of the holster and set in on the table? I was under the impresion that when concealed carry you are supposed to keep your firearm out of the eye of the public. |
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Posted: 2/16/2012 4:52:33 PM
Originally Posted By FMD:
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Does a permit allow a person to Open carry within 1000 feet of a public school or only Concealed? The statute does not address how the firearm is carried, so a permit holder would be able to do either - as long as the permit holder stayed off of school grounds. *sigh* Do I need to pull that up and quote it as well? Nope gotcha, thanks |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/16/2012 5:13:23 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 5:37:21 PM by FMD]
Originally Posted By bigern26:
cool thanks for that. Just to get things strait then, (not being a smart ass) I'm not really sure I believe that. See below. So what you are really saying is it it legal for my firearm to show while I am concealed carry(be it my barrel, holster, or grip)?
I can open carry everywhere in WI that I can concealed carry? Yes & yes (though it may not be very prudent to do so). I do not need to carry my permit?
When I go to a restaurant that allows concealed carry I can take it out of the holster and set in on the table? Quit trolling. 
I was under the impresion that when concealed carry you are supposed to keep your firearm out of the eye of the public.
While that is an excellent idea for about a million reasons, it is not required by law. One had the right to carry openly without a permit an awful lot of places before Act 35 became law. Its passage did nothing to remove those rights, and, with a permit, enhanced where and how one can go armed in WI. |
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dayphotog
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Posted: 2/16/2012 6:38:03 PM
Originally Posted By FMD:
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Yup, 'cause forgetting your wallet is exactly like shooting a little old lady.
Intersting that you insist that there's an absolute requirement to carry your permit, when the actual law instead provides a window of time after the fact to produce said permit. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile (2g) CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON; POSSESSION AND DISPLAY OF LICENSE DOCUMENT OR AUTHORIZATION. (a) A licensee or an out−of−state licensee may carry a concealed weapon anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r. (b) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee shall have with him or her his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee shall have with him or her his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card at all times during which he or she is carrying a concealed weapon. (c) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority. I guess that answers that question.............. Keep reading up to section 175.60 (17) (17) Penalties.
(a) Any person who violates sub. (2g) (b) or (c) may be required to forfeit not more than $25, except that the person shall be exempted from the forfeiture if the person presents, within 48 hours, his or her license document or out-of-state license and photographic identification to the law enforcement agency that employs the requesting law enforcement officer. "Shit happens" actually is an excuse in this instance, as long as you can prove you really do have a permit. ETA: Bigern, you seem to be new here. Welcome, strap in, and enjoy the ride... but understand that there are some pretty knowledgeable folks here who won't hesitate to call a spade a spade. thanks for the responses all. It really does happen to A LOT of ccw people in the rest of the country who have been CCWing for years in all the rest of the states (well minus IL). Different states have different laws about having permit on you. If you get pulled over by the 5O it will show that you have a ccw anyways. I have forgot my DL licences but not my car  before so it can happen. I've never had a ND though I know it can happen.
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tommytrauma
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Posted: 2/16/2012 9:16:58 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2012 9:20:51 PM by tommytrauma]
Originally Posted By bigern26:
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Yup, 'cause forgetting your wallet is exactly like shooting a little old lady.
Intersting that you insist that there's an absolute requirement to carry your permit, when the actual law instead provides a window of time after the fact to produce said permit. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile (2g) CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON; POSSESSION AND DISPLAY OF LICENSE DOCUMENT OR AUTHORIZATION. (a) A licensee or an out−of−state licensee may carry a concealed weapon anywhere in this state except as provided under subs. (15m) and (16) and ss. 943.13 (1m) (c) and 948.605 (2) (b) 1r. (b) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee shall have with him or her his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee shall have with him or her his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card at all times during which he or she is carrying a concealed weapon. (c) Unless the licensee or out−of−state licensee is carrying a concealed weapon in a manner described under s. 941.23 (2) (e), a licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her license document and photographic identification card and an out−of−state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon shall display his or her out−of−state license and photographic identification card to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority. I guess that answers that question.............. Oh here is more! CCW FAQ 10/20/11 - 26 - Do I need to carry my license with me at all times? Yes, a licensee or an out-of-state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon must have with him or her their license document and photographic identification card unless the concealed weapon is being carried in the licensee‘s dwelling or place of business or on land that they owns lease, or legally occupy. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(2g)(b). We can refer to this one.....in your favor What is the penalty for not carrying or displaying a CCW license and photo ID? A person who does not carry or display a CCW license and photo ID as required may be ordered to forfeit not more than $25 except that the a person is exempt from this penalty if he or she presents, within 48 hours of the request, his or her license document and photographic identification to the law enforcement agency who employs the officer who lawfully requested the documents. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(17)(a). But if you are getting a fine.... and or ordered to show then in fact it is illegal to not carry your permit while carrying a concealed weapon. Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Could you point me to the law requiring that weapons be concealed? Responsible permit holders actually know the laws involved. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Sorry didnt mean to confuse you: no there my not be a law about not letting people know you are carrying concealed but whats the point, And if you are in an area that does not allow open carry yes it is illegal for your concealed carry to show or be known. Thats the whole point of CONCEALED CARRY. Sorry, Yes I am new here. I will bow down to the guys with the most posts.........
Ok not really. Like I said, no there is no law that says you have to keep your firearm concealed at all times and never let it show?????? Thats why responsible CC people wave their firearms around in bars, restaurants, malls, and banks. I guess thats why so many people try so hard for their weapon to not print, fall out, or SHOW. But hey you all can do whatever you want, a newbie like me knows nothing anyway, right? Just treat your permit like your firearm and you will never forget it. After all, a concealed carry permit is the base for a concealed carry handgun. Well, FMD already answered your points. Bitch stole my fish.
The WI HT forum is a hell of a resource. We routinely put classes together and train with each other, look to each other for everything from help moving to help when we come down with life threatening diseases, all sorts of stuff. I don't listen to FMD because of his post count, I listen to him because i know him, and i know he's an exceptionally intelligent man who doesn't offer an opinion unless it's well thought out and who doesn't offer "facts" unless he knows he's correct and can produce supporting evidence. He trusted me with one of the larger responsibilities I've ever been offered because he knows me and knows I don't BS in my subject field. Like FMD said, welcome to the forum. You can treat it like GD if you want, but you'll be pissing away a tremendous resource if you do. |
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Posted: 2/18/2012 3:15:09 AM
I apoligize if I missed the answer. But i have a question of the ccw law. Although i carry the new Kimber super carry pro .45. The question is about carring a knife consealed. I know we can carry a folding knife up to 3 inches(buck knife). on the hip. So what exactly type of knife and length is the law allowing. I thought i seen that you still arent allowed a switch blade. Just wondering what the law DOES allow. When it comes to knifes. Thanks Dan
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rfb45colt
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Posted: 2/18/2012 2:16:34 PM
[Last Edit: 2/18/2012 2:17:13 PM by rfb45colt]
Originally Posted By SuperPimp:
Originally Posted By Clay54961:
are you forgetting Minnesota? or as a Wisconsin permit holder we cant carry in that state? Not yet, I believe Minnesota has some legislation going that will recognize all permits but I don't know much about it. Until then, Wisconsin and Minnesota has to work out a reciprocity agreement and I don't even know if the DOJ is even working on that. Same with Florida even though our system is loosely based on theirs we still need a formal agreement. Some states we just won't be able to get, others will need a formal agreement. The Utah permit is a good value and will get you into Minnesota, it's a great compliment to your WI CCL. HF1467 The above proposed bill in MN would do several things. Amongst them are install a Castle Doctrine/Stand-Your-Ground law, and "recognition provided by Minnesota of other states' permits to carry a pistol within and under the laws of Minnesota". It passed the MN House last year, and just last week made it through a Senate committee (10-5), opening the way for full passage by the State Senate. A vote could come next week, according to NRA-ILA . |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/19/2012 8:14:43 AM
Originally Posted By Djeep:
I apoligize if I missed the answer. But i have a question of the ccw law. Although i carry the new Kimber super carry pro .45. The question is about carring a knife consealed. I know we can carry a folding knife up to 3 inches(buck knife). on the hip. There is no blade length restriction in Wisconsin, folding or fixed (switchblades/gravity knives are a different story). Various localities may have their own ordinances, but I would suspect that the argument could be made by your attorney that 66.0409(6) covers "weapons" generally rather than the specified "handguns" if you were pinched for a local ordinance violation. I believe that it was a legislative mistake not to address weapons in general there, but it is what it is. So what exactly type of knife and length is the law allowing. I thought i seen that you still arent allowed a switch blade. Just wondering what the law DOES allow. When it comes to knifes. Thanks Dan
Dan, you can carry and conceal whatever fixed or folding knife you want (again, with the switchblade caveat). Blade length has never mattered on a state statute level. |
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FMD
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Posted: 2/19/2012 8:17:53 AM
Originally Posted By tommytrauma:
Well, FMD already answered your points. Bitch stole my fish. I've been told that I'm sometime a bit too quick to discharge. The WI HT forum is a hell of a resource. We routinely put classes together and train with each other, look to each other for everything from help moving to help when we come down with life threatening diseases, all sorts of stuff. I don't listen to FMD because of his post count, I listen to him because i know him, and i know he's an exceptionally intelligent man who doesn't offer an opinion unless it's well thought out and who doesn't offer "facts" unless he knows he's correct and can produce supporting evidence. He trusted me with one of the larger responsibilities I've ever been offered because he knows me and knows I don't BS in my subject field.
While I appreciate your gushing; no, I still won't sleep with you. 
Like FMD said, welcome to the forum. You can treat it like GD if you want, but you'll be pissing away a tremendous resource if you do.
While the HTF is a different animal than it once was, it is still "home". |
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Posted: 2/19/2012 11:43:15 PM
I appreciate the answer FMD thanks Dan
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rfb45colt
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Posted: 2/25/2012 10:10:03 AM
[Last Edit: 2/25/2012 10:13:28 AM by rfb45colt]
Originally Posted By rfb45colt:
Originally Posted By SuperPimp:
Originally Posted By Clay54961:
are you forgetting Minnesota? or as a Wisconsin permit holder we cant carry in that state? Not yet, I believe Minnesota has some legislation going that will recognize all permits but I don't know much about it. Until then, Wisconsin and Minnesota has to work out a reciprocity agreement and I don't even know if the DOJ is even working on that. Same with Florida even though our system is loosely based on theirs we still need a formal agreement. Some states we just won't be able to get, others will need a formal agreement. The Utah permit is a good value and will get you into Minnesota, it's a great compliment to your WI CCL. HF1467 The above proposed bill in MN would do several things. Amongst them are install a Castle Doctrine/Stand-Your-Ground law, and "recognition provided by Minnesota of other states' permits to carry a pistol within and under the laws of Minnesota". It passed the MN House last year, and just last week made it through a Senate committee (10-5), opening the way for full passage by the State Senate. A vote could come next week, according to NRA-ILA . HF1467 passed in the MN Senate on 2/23, by a vote of 40-23. It now goes back to the House to approve some changes, then to the Governor for signature or veto. If House approves and Gov. signs, MN will have "Stand Your Ground", and MN will honor all out-of-state CHLs, including WI. 
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tommytrauma
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Posted: 2/25/2012 10:19:56 AM
Originally Posted By rfb45colt:
Originally Posted By rfb45colt:
Originally Posted By SuperPimp:
Originally Posted By Clay54961:
are you forgetting Minnesota? or as a Wisconsin permit holder we cant carry in that state? Not yet, I believe Minnesota has some legislation going that will recognize all permits but I don't know much about it. Until then, Wisconsin and Minnesota has to work out a reciprocity agreement and I don't even know if the DOJ is even working on that. Same with Florida even though our system is loosely based on theirs we still need a formal agreement. Some states we just won't be able to get, others will need a formal agreement. The Utah permit is a good value and will get you into Minnesota, it's a great compliment to your WI CCL. HF1467 The above proposed bill in MN would do several things. Amongst them are install a Castle Doctrine/Stand-Your-Ground law, and "recognition provided by Minnesota of other states' permits to carry a pistol within and under the laws of Minnesota". It passed the MN House last year, and just last week made it through a Senate committee (10-5), opening the way for full passage by the State Senate. A vote could come next week, according to NRA-ILA . HF1467 passed in the MN Senate on 2/23, by a vote of 40-23. It now goes back to the House to approve some changes, then to the Governor for signature or veto. If House approves and Gov. signs, MN will have "Stand Your Ground", and MN will honor all out-of-state CHLs, including WI.
Good news indeed. Hope you'll continue with updates. |
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