Edited: I've removed the link to RMGO so he doesn't gain any SEO benefit from ar15.com.
Why isn't Rocky Mountain Gun Owners listed in the colorado gun rights groups reference section?

I don't know what the criteria is for being listed there but RMGO is more about promoting its owner than gun rights.

This, times a thousand.

There isn't a "fraud" section...

Because RMGO is a scam, Dudley is a douche, and they have actively blocked grassroots gun activism (or tried their damnedest) in the past.

Cause it's the only way that org can get info. Via other state reps.

Yep.



 

I bought a house outside Denver, I'll live there in about a month. Why else would I be in the CO hometown section? I also don't live in LA anymore, I'm just proud to be from LA and lived there most of my life so I haven't changed it yet.
A former republican politician teaching a conservative leadership class asked who is a member of the NRA. Then he told me that the NRA made a lot of mistakes along the way by compromise: NRA endorsed Harry Reid for re-election, NRA backed the assault rifle ban,  etc.
He said the Rocky Mountain Gun Owners and National association gun rights were much better groups.
So yes, I'd like to know what I didn't know what's wrong with RMGO, I was planning on signing up as a member once I moved there, now I'm not so sure. I was thinking that not only do we need to help on a national level to protect the second amendment, CO is a little less free and needs some local activism. I'm a life NRA member, and giving $400 extra to a CO non profit would be an easy check to write for that cause, but if he's a scam I'd rather not.  
When I got home from that event/class I looked up RMGO and found this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Gun_Owners perhaps he wrote his own story..........It looked like a great org to an outsider like me.

On another note I've followed your standard capacity magazine ban and the lawsuit filed by almost every sheriff in CO against that ban.

RMGO sunk our chance of getting 30 mags back before the democrats could.

Dudley can go away.

You want to donate some money to a CO gun org. Give it to these guys
http://cssa.org/news.php

You wan to be harassed daily via e-mails, mailers and the occasional phone call. Give it to Dudley.
 Notice i didn't say RMGO, that's because IMO ANY donations some how end up in his or other "Board members" pockets, vehicle or gun collection.

At 1 point in time RMGO DID HAVE the interest of CO gun owners, first and foremost.  Now.............. He's about 1 mile from our place. If i happen to see him, he goes the other way.  I don't like the man, don't care for his "shady" (yes i said shady)  dealings. I care that he fucked up a few potential state reps who might have voted against the mag limit. Were it not for duds involvement. Once it was made clear DUD WAS LEADING THE CHARGE AGAINST UNJUST GUN LAWS. The few considering a NO Vote changed their minds. .

He's also the one who AFTER THE FACT. Had the ovaries to claim it was RMGO AND DUDLEY BROWN who led the charge when the recalls made the ballot.

For the TL:DR crowd
FUCK HIM. Strong letter to Follow.

Pretty much this

Fuck you dudleydumbfuck

Not defending Dudley but hickenstuper would have vetoed that anyway

RMGO looks like they bring in around 900K/year in donations.
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/841/841368137/841368137_201312_990O.pdf?_ga=1.19257521.84953352.1455212722
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/841/841368137/841368137_201412_990O.pdf?_ga=1.183696303.84953352.1455212722

I looked into his form 990. While he may be a poor choice for our cause, doesn't look like a fraud or a thief. He makes about 50-60K/year on RMGO and NAGR  brings him $70-100K/yr. Percentage wise he isn't keeping much of the proceeds, unless he's stealing  grant money.

NAGR some years it looks like they bring in about 4-8 million per year.
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/542/542015951/542015951_201312_990O.pdf?_ga=1.83630879.84953352.1455212722  
http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/542/542015951/542015951_201212_990O.pdf?_ga=1.174341291.84953352.1455212722

I looked into his form 990. While he may be a poor choice for our cause, doesn't look like a fraud or a thief. He makes about 50-60K/year on RMGO and NAGR  brings him $70-100K/yr. Percentage wise he isn't keeping much of the proceeds, unless he's stealing  grant money (and there's plenty of it). It's not unreasonable to take some personal income: 60k/yr salary is adequate for running a charity that brings in close to a million if they are actually doing something positive. 100K/yr isn't that bad considering he's managing 8 million dollars per year.  

Wayne Lapierre makes about 1 million per year. NRA brings in about 350 million from 2013.

If Dudley is a fraud please tell me more so I can correct what Ted Harvey said to my friends, but I've think I've already read enough to steer clear of him and his non-profit orgs. It's sad to read that this guy isn't very good while CO really needs some help. I'll stick with your recommended groups and call my local politician when they ask me to.

Dudley/RMGO/NAGR is really a love/hate type of thing.  The opinion of him soured quite a bit during the recalls when he first said the recalls wouldn't work, then took credit for them when they did work.  Beyond that he is an all or nothing political view on 2A.  If you are a politician that isn't of the same thought process then he'll work to get you out and a lot of good Rs are weary of RMGO for that.  Towards the end of the last session there was an opportunity to get the mag limit lifted to 30 from 15 and Dudley/RMGO pretty much nixed it because he/they want to go for a complete repeal.  That all or nothing approach is getting us a lot of nothing when we could nibble our rights back in the same manner they are nibbled away.

great now dudley has a shill on the forum.  fuck....

WTF? I met a guy named Ted Harvey. He went on for at least half an hour about how awesome RMGO is and how I need to join........ I come here and everyone is calling him a fraud. I'd like to learn, than straighten out the people who I know that respect Ted Harvey and let them know Ted Harvey isn't being truthful in his lecture. Ted knows I'm moving to CO and said RMGO is who I need to join up with..... When I tell the leader of a different non profit org (non gun related) that  the teacher Ted Harvey of "Foundation for Applied Conservative Leadership" is backing a scam artist named Dudley and we were all duped for taking his class I'd like to back that up with facts instead of opinion.

I'd collected so far that he is a poor leader, high pressure money collection, and wrong on policy. He's hated by the crowd he intended to serve. Instead of playing it safe for 30 rounds we wanted zero restrictions as the second amendment is written and gun owners in CO lost. He told people not to start a recall saying it won't work and then wrongfully takes credit for the achievement of others which he previously scorned.
I can see why you hate him, and I can see why I'm not going to join their cause, but what I failed to see was that he's embezzling money from his charity or committing fraud (except taking credit from others, I can see fraud there). Percentage wise on paper he's not taking the lion's share for himself nor his friends, quite the contrary: it looks like his friends are getting fucked over according to the papers as he's the only one taking any salary in RMGO. NAGR he does pay a few people, but not always. This just makes him greedy. Now if he's embezzling cash from his charity by money laundering money his charity is paying out to others than I'd like to know too. Neither of his Charity's are on Charity Watch, which is a charity watchdog.  Perhaps someone should drop a line so he can get audited.

Ted Harvey's class basically preaches some of the things you think Dudley grossly gets wrong which is zero compromise. I think I need to share that with my anti big pharma group that these guys have it wrong, but I'd like facts to show.

Reading on another forum I've read Dudley was busted for coke and is a police informant/snitch. I have plenty of reason to never join his group. I don't quite have a lot of evidence to discredit Ted Harvey's class using his guilty by association with Dudley Brown which is my thirst to learn more.

From my research here I've repeated a lot of why you hate him, but I'll refuse to accuse him of fraud or embezzlement from his charity without proof.  That doesn't make me a shill, quite the contrary. I'm stacking evidence from you as witnesses to condemn the man,  I'm going to convince leaders that I'm close to that people who lie in bed with Dudley Brown lose credibility for their connection to him.  Dudley Brown's charity will never see my generosity, and I am a generous man when it comes to a charity I believe in. I'm also active when the NRA asks me to call a politician in my district.

Now HBAR: considering I'm willing to educate others on why he's worthless, and you aren't willing to educate me but rather call me names, that makes you more of his shill since you're just sweeping him under the rug, and I'm trying to air his dirty laundry amongst my friends but instead of getting facts, I get you complaining.  Thanks for nothing.

Here's some background highlight some of the good and bad.  Lost more can be found with a quick search on here.

http://www.5280.com/magazine/2013/08/Dudley-browns-war?page=0,3

The great majority of gun owners I know have an absolute visceral hatred of Duddley, there are better options for financial contributions to the cause.

From my research here I've repeated a lot of why you hate him, but I'll refuse to accuse him of fraud or embezzlement from his charity without proof. That doesn't make me a shill, quite the contrary. I'm stacking evidence from you as witnesses to condemn the man, I'm going to convince leaders that I'm close to that people who lie in bed with Dudley Brown lose credibility for their connection to him. Dudley Brown's charity will never see my generosity, and I am a generous man when it comes to a charity I believe in. I'm also active when the NRA asks me to call a politician in my district.

RMGO is NOT a Charity.

IMO there's no reason for you to stack evidence for anything other than what you decide to research on your own.  You want to accuse him of anything. best have your ducks in a row.

It's still a bit perplexing why you want to do anything.




Now HBAR: considering I'm willing to educate others on why he's worthless, and you aren't willing to educate me but rather call me names, that makes you more of his shill since you're just sweeping him under the rug, and I'm trying to air his dirty laundry amongst my friends but instead of getting facts, I get you complaining. Thanks for nothing

Gotta tell you. From everything thing you're been given answers to. YET still press for more info.   Leads me to believe you are a shill for RMGO. Or someone who was asked to inquire on their behalf.

You've found some info on their .org. Do your own homework.

As for Ted Harvey. While his intentions are good. It would be hard for him to disparage RMGO, when RMGO is one of his supporters.

Little bias perhaps.. BUT................... you're taking his class, you decide.  

Now you're arguing semantics of a word. Charity, Organization, they both are non profit on some mission to do good. Wrong word, but doesn't really change the meaning of the sentence.
I'm not really accusing him of anything. You guys are accusing him. I'm interested because I feel duped by Ted. How would you feel if Ted was teaching you broken tactics that don't work, but the people you care about and trust think Ted's class is amazing? Many of the things Ted said was almost verbatim for what I've read in the Dudley Brown's war article.
And now I'm going to trust my organization to protect me from medical tyranny using Dudley's tactic?

If you were in Ted's class for about 9 hours, and for about 1 hour of that class I've heard how the NRA is weak by giving up power for access, that RMGO and NRGA is awesome, and I come here and ask a question thinking Ted has no reason to lie to me...... and Bam. I've just learned RMGO is a fraud. Ted's teachings are parallel to RMGO's Dudley Brown's
failure message of no compromise. This class was brought to my city with the intention that I see it along with other members of her anti big pharma organization. I'd like to know if I was shammed. If Dudley Brown is a fraud, and his good friend Ted speaks very highly of him, then what does that speak of Ted? And more importantly the content of my long day in Ted's class? If our anti big pharma lobby follows in Dud's footsteps I have an obligation to speak up to the owner of my organization. This person thinks highly of Ted's class, so much that she may be blind to the pitfalls of their failures.


I did enough homework, now I have to defend myself from being a shill to you too? Welcome to CO huh? This is going to be a shitty couple years for me in Denver.


Ted is a Former Senator. You mean RMGO was one of his supporters? Once again I just took a Ted's class. It wasn't obvious that Ted was supported by RMGO and NAGR until you both brought up the name dudley. And Dudley happened to owned both. Then I realized the recommendation wasn't genuine, but I realized that here on this forum.  

I took a class on a saturday. It's a one day deal. The class is long over. Now I'm second guessing the content of that class. I don't understand why that's hard for arfers to believe.

You took a class. Vett the material, vet the instructors. Use what you want and what applies to you and throw away the junk. Even bad instructors with questionable acquantances can provide some useful info.

I did enough homework, now I have to defend myself from being a shill to you too? Welcome to CO huh? This is going to be a shitty couple years for me in Denver.

Denver & boulder have SAFE SPACES for those butt hurt.From of all places,online.

Suck it up, move on, enjoy life. It's too short to get upset over the small shit.

Or is it

Can't believe this is still going...



Here's the TL:DR about RMGO.

They have been mostly unhelpful and in many cases counter productive in the recent fights.  They suck up money that could go to other, better sources.  Many people would rather buy Wayne a new suit than give to Dudley for it.

I suppose the main reason I'm beating a dead horse is that after Ted's class I felt really good about him, he went out of his way to help me on my other issue. When we contact him about pharma shill bills coming in CO he responds. I suppose that is the number one trait that gets a politician elected. I just learned here that everything that class was built upon doesn't work, and instead of a genuine referral which I was grateful for I learned here that both of his NRA comparable referrals are poison.

I've learned after a couple posts that Dudley hurt our cause. That was all I needed to stay away from him.  I really like the NRA. I'm a life member there, my wife is as well even though she has a fear of guns, I've gifted my vet father in law a life membership as well. I have to admit after Ted's class I was a little mad at the NRA, but I wasn't embarrassed to be a life member there.  I felt eager to join and help more organizations thrive, and CO needs our help. I have no problem staying clear of RMGO, I do have a problem getting tricked by Ted about how awesome RMGO is. I do have a problem doing nothing. When I move in a few weeks I'll be sure to join your recommended local org.

My biggest concern left is Ted. At first I really liked him, I actually loved his class and donated to help his cause. After this thread I feel like I was shammed, that he was disingenuous, and that I am embarrassed. Ted is going a little out of his way to some degree so he isn't all bad, but he was a politician. I'm concerned and not sure what to make. I wish I could just delete this thread before I make enemies with two angry revengeful people.  

FDB

He's a grifter. There's more stuff, but I have to get back to work. Everything everyone else here said is true.

ETA: Don't feel bad and don't necessarily be mad at Ted, OP. Pudley has plenty of people fooled, including several legislators.

Don't get offended by people here having negative reactions to rmgo nagr. They're just fed up with the antics and games of the leadership from those organizations getting caught lying and you're getting the brunt end of years of drama related to it.

You drank the kool aid but you had enough sense to question the after taste good job.

Your research into the income dudley recieves is in line with mine. 100k+  to do damage to the credibility of those who actually support the second ammendment is just plain wrong.

also note that those recalls were started and ran by some of the htf members while dud opposed them (and got pretty nasty as usual) then he tried to take credit for them when they succeeded you'll start to understand the type of person we have known for years. He has the credibility and reputation of an ambulance chaser. He's set up issues like outright lieing to the press and that windsor library debacle. This is just some of the highlights...

JFC. I gave RMGO and NAGR my email address years ago signing up for one or more of their giveaways. I unsubscribe from every mailing they send me.

What I don't get is why they re-import the list of email addresses they have every couple of months and keep re-adding me to shit I have already unsubscribed from. I have complained to Paramount Communications (their email service provider) several times but they keep fucking doing it.

I also ended up on Rand Paul's email list and several others Dudley aligned with because he has shared addresses in the past. He's one unethical shady bastard.

Paramount Communications (and their upstream Rack Space) is a spammer hoster, and they won't do shit.  I run my own mail server, so I firewalled the fuckers years ago.

bout time you showed up.

yeah yeah, gotta save the best for last

Regarding Dudley and RMGO, I'll backup what others have said.  When we first started the recall campaign against the first 2 fucks, Dudley was less then helpful, even saying to the media (and I'm paraphrasing here) " Recalls wont work, and will only hurt us".  Well after we set national and state history by wasting 2 vicious gun grabbers, Dudley suddenly decided that recalls would work, and helped fund the 3rd recall attempt.

DB can go eat a bowl of rancid dicks.

This. Dudley is why we have a Dem as governor.

...and then the POS got the emails of people who signed the recall petition and gave their addresses with the understanding that the emails would be only used to contact them if their signature was called into question, and to remind them to vote. That was also what people who were collecting signatures were told. Ask me how I know. Not only does that reflect poorly on Pudley, it also damages pro-liberty recall efforts. I was proud to help all of the efforts. Those who ran the recall Hudak effort should be ashamed for getting in bed with RMGO's leader. Poor form on giving him those emails.

ETA: Man, I sound angry in that post.  It must have been sent from the pub.

nvm

Sounds like a guy with low morals/poor integrity to add to the list of his failures.

I have to say I was cheering on CO when the recall efforts were starting, and I stayed up late to watch the polls results.
I just wish the CO sheriff's lawsuit went further. Is that over or are they still fighting?   The sheriff's lawsuit website hasn't updated in quite some time. It's amazing when the sheriff stands up for the people instead of stomping on them.

OP, here is some educational reading on Dudley Brown.  It also does a good job of showing some of his issues.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1269051_Scam_being_run_by_the_National_Association_for_Gun_Rights.html

Also, a little food for thought, there are a lot of folks who bash the NRA for compromising.  BUt they generally leave out some details or have a warped perspective on things.

So don't take some random dudes opinion as gospel.  DO a little research and you might be surprised.

RMGO has zero actual accomplishments and spends a ton of $$$ smearing their non-chosen conservative candidates in primaries.

Did Dudley run out pro-gun RINOs for a more pro-life one and lose to a Dem?

..You took a class, more like a seminar. Drank the kool-aid,, now wonder what that bad taste is.  DB's bad news. Ask 1000 questions, get the same answer. Nothing gonna change, except your outlook of DB, RMGO, NAGR , maybe.

He ran out a pro-liberty R who knew enough to STFU about the A word. Dud's ccandidate didn't lose (due to backlash from the gun control that passed), but I won't be surprised if they lose next time.

If his candidate for Bennett's US Senate seat makes it to the general, then we'll get D'ed again.

Dudle Brown

The Colorado Senate is broken because of him . He controls the primary process by eliminating people who cross him. Brilliantly effective but only for him, not Colorado when the people have less say then some boss because they are afraid to lose their jobs and power. And Colorado has a Hick again because Dud does not understand Colorado as a whole. But that is a whole new chess board which we should have done more with. We were to busy beating back Dudley and his minions from taking the credit for other people's work.

As an aside I place much on people who say "I have your back" and follow with a hand shake (and in Ted's case a prayer too). Then I wait for the results of their words by action or inaction. I got just such a speech and promise of "whatever I can do, I know what you are doing is important." And this all happened at a NRA function no less, which I paid to get into and he went to for free no less. Food is served. Ted got orders not to talk to me after that...he not his own man. Few are in politics, but just so you know about him. If you get some value out of what he says great, but know the whole man.

Politics is the art of compromise,  and then getting what you want by small steps (See Ohio, Kansas, Florida and Maine regarding 2A). Beating people means understanding the field and out playing them. Longer game for results. The left is far better at this. All or nothing gets you nothing, but it sounds great and garners tons of financial support. This game plan seems to strangely have the opposite result, or does it?  We still lose! Helps to give away jeeps and guns too. Results are not really part of the plan as can be seen.

Yes sometimes recalls are required, but they are epically difficult and unlikely to succeed. Colorado caught lightning in a bottle with the successful recall teams and others can't even follow it when given the blueprint (yeah I choose that word for those in the know). Human nature gets in the way, as does ego.  So it comes back to understanding the reality. Hard to hear, difficult to do with people who are free/critical thinker but the results speak for themselves.  So back to: Politics is the art of compromise,  and then getting what you want by small steps ...

Me, I play a long game for results or I will figure out a way to do something with a small team for an outcome few think possible. And then I will move on to the next thing with the same intended result or at least leaving a dent they won't soon forget.

All from a guy who who lives in Tennessee because I nuked all my Colorado options. Miss you guys ..... But we shall ride again ....

I don't find my way out east ever, so you best come back to CO soon so I can buy you another beer. You're missed here.

I'll leave the politics to all y'all from here on out though.

and this is key. you take what you can, when you can

RMGO was opposed to shall issue because they felt that it would prevent the adoption of constitutional carry

RMGO was opposed to increasing the mag limit to 30 because it was a "compromise"... albeit a 100% improvement over 15 rounds

they should change their slogan from "no compromises" to "no accomplishments"

When I first moved out here I was looking for a VCDL-like organization and was pointed towards RMGO.  I can only wish that Dudley was more like Philip Van Cleve.  We would certainly be much further along than the no compromise/salted earth stance that Dudley takes.

We have the same issue in Iowa with an NAGR backed group.  Iowa Gun Owners.  Thought this might interest you guys.  We're actively fighting against them, and are making some headway.  There's a Facebook page and website dedicated to their nonsense.  He employs the exact same tactics.  

https://m.facebook.com/trueiowagunowners/?tsid=0.7380316136404872&source=typeahead

I would not say that rmgo is a scam.  He is passionate about his opinions and not totally wrong about a lot of them.  Sure, the things that have happened never should have happened.  My problem with him is his way of going about fixing the problem.  He comes across as the hard headed gun nut that the left is always trying to portray us as.  He needs to learn how to fight the political fight, this isnt a bar brawl.   His ridiculous emails trying to scare you into giving him money and his inability to do anything but hurt the fight is why I wont get involved with him.

Has RMGO thrown in the towel?

5 bills killed in committee and not a mention of them on their FB and Twitter feed.

Maybe they've given up on the pretense that they're actually trying to accomplish anything.

Looks like they don't allow posting to their page...