So I was at Wal-Mart the other day and thought I'd check to see if they had any. Got to talking with the employee and he told me that a local gun store owner  has come in multiple times to buy  .22lr and usually has a couple employees with him as well (3 box limit per person). The employee said that he will purchase the ammo then sell it at his store for double. I am a "free market" kind of guy but this really pissed me off. I have been to the gun store several times, they always have .22 but I never purchase it due to the price. In the 4 months of living down the street from this Wal-Mart I have only been able to buy .22 once (1 box of 555) because they are always out. Am I wrong for thinking this is a sleazy thing for the gun shop owner to do? (I withheld the name of the shop because obviously it is hearsay and my feelings towards the issue could be wrong).

I understand that your reports are unconfirmed but can you at least tell us what city?

There is a pawn shop in Montrose that was doing that for a long time. They had a ton of people buying it and bringing it to them. Not sure if they still are.

Pretty sure I know which one you're referring to.  I've worked in a few different FFL positions both in Colorado and in Georgia.  This, unfortunately, is not an uncommon thing nowadays.  Also not uncommon is selling 22 to someone and then seeing a post on one of the various armlists/facebook groups/etc for that same ammo for 3 x's the cost.  Pretty sad state of affairs really...



 

Obviously the store owner can't get .22 long rifle and wishes to stock some.

So what? is my belief.  

Paying employees to tag along so he gets another half dozen boxes isn't  generating huge profits.

Guess the Op has never gone to a gun show and seen ammo sold there. OR ever sold ANYTHING for more than he / she paid for it.

I'm in Castle Rock.
And yes, I have been to a gun show and have seen what people do with .22.......but having an actual store do it just seems shady to me, maybe I'm wrong.

yes. There are a lot of upstanding LGS's HOWEVER to fault any business for trying to make money.  AND NO it's not price gouging. It's business.

Gee, I wonder who THAT must be....



 

The one thats smoking something?

You can think what you want about the owner or his/her shop, but I don't find it sleazy.  LGS owner would rather be getting it wholesale and selling at the same price as the big box stores, but the big box stores can sell it cheaper at retail then small retailers can get it at wholesale, if they can get it all.

Don't buy it, and tell everyone else not too unless it's a reasonable price. I don't understand why people can't conserve .22 shells and stop buying over priced ones. It should be common sense.

I do not see anything wrong with any of the items that you have stated above nor any wrong doing by the company. It is all supply and demand, or in the case of the Glock that was described if someone buys it for that then that is their choice. I have even heard of Wal-Mart employees being paid to hold 22 ammo by the gun shop owners, that I have a little bit more of a problem with because that gives unfair advantage. I have seen this many times in different industries and places. For example Texas Roadhouse when I was there the other night had to run to Wal-Mart to buy hamburger buns to make it till their supplier could bring more, I know for a fact that I paid way more for that bun then they did at Wal-Mart.

Great conversation topic and do not take this as a negative, I think it is just because 22 is a hot issue to all of us for a while now and when you see something like this it makes you angry. Trust that I understand how you feel, when Magnum opened the door and they had the pallet of 22 sitting there for a week that only the members could buy at a reasonable price it made me mad. On the other hand they were able to get the pallet and it was great for their members to be able to get what they needed. Once I looked at it differently my attitude about it changed and I then respected the fact that Magnum did do that for its members.

So would the smarter move be to average out the price increase that the gun store owner wants for the Wal-Mart bought 22 ammo and charge you a gun store discount program fee? This way you pay about the same for the 22 and feel that you are getting a good deal, and you are part of that store witch will increase patron loyalty.

The whole reason this .22 shortage happened is because people with a voice made a scare, which caused people to hord. Which caused them to re-sell for twice the price. Which made people panic and hord again. Then those who didn't know any better started buying at ridiculous prices.

That's not how small business works, or business in general. I don't know anybody in the business world who buys stuff at marketprice and sells it for more or double and is considered a fair business. If you're justifying you are part of the problem. You are probably part of the reason of the shortage. Using "Supply and Demand" as an excuse is dumb too, it's called being an Ass-Hole.

The cycle will never end until you guys stop acting like it's okay. I don't have trouble getting .22 but all the "reasons" you guys are saying it's okay, make you all look like douche bags. Hope I don't ever meet you guys on the range and you need help with anything with the attitudes you are portraying.

Lots of name calling w/out any substance. Other than you are butt hurt over someone's business practice. 1st world problems. You sound like the guys who complained about price gouging , yet had no issue selling BCG's for $200.

Probably the one who pointed out those who talked in class too.  TEACHER, TEACHER.

I have no issue with you calling me names and hope that I have not offended you. I am just stating what several large organizations have already stated. I was enjoying the conversation and wanted to try and let you see it from another angle by showing how small and large business do this all the time. I think that you are so passionate about it because it hits in a place that you never thought it would. Most of us have grown up shooting 22 rifles and the thought that those are threatened is scary to everyone.

There are a lot of theories why the scare happened yours looks to blame people, mine would be that a lot more people started owning firearms and the need for smaller caliber was not something the companies were ready for. Both are just theories. If your theory is correct then you are doing exactly what you are saying the issue is by yelling and screaming that there is a shortage causing people that read this to next time they see it buy the maximum available in turn making it so you still cant buy any.

There are companies built off taking something on the market and reselling it for a larger price, most tech companies have made Billions off this exact concept. It is considered fair business because if the people pay it then there are no moral or any other issues. I would be incredibly rich if I was the reason for the shortage as I would have pallets of 22 ammo that I would be selling for 3x the cost. I do have a large amount of 22 ammo and buy it when I can and also call everyone I know when I find it, but I also have a S&W 15-22 that is about the funnest gun ever for me and my family to shoot and it chews up ammo like my car eats gas. So in this light I guess I am part of the problem and will continue on being. Is it any different then me calling my friends and then my friends selling it online for crazy money?

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Your original point was about the gun shop owner using the employees to buy out Wal-Mart supply and then make money off selling it for a higher price, wouldn't the gun shop owner argue that Wal-Mart is putting them out of business by being so big that the ammo manufactures ship to them first and the gun store owner cannot get any?

I have no fear of meeting you on any range and you helping me as your comments in the original post were very passionate about this sport and you have shown that the whole time. I am almost sure that if we did meet on the range and you saw me having issues you would be the first to step up and help.

So since I started the post, I feel the need to comment. Here is my issue with the issue. *** Guns most likely has a wholesalers license and can get .22 from a larger pool of providers than I can.....also at a way cheaper price than I can, that's all good. I expect every business to make a profit on whatever it sells. I am not going to allow the hunt for .22 to consume my life (looking online for it and/or driving all over town for it) and I am not "one of the greedy ones", example: the about 3 days before Christmas I got to Wal-Mart very early and there was no one else there. I waited for over 30 minutes for the sporting goods guy to show up and stock the shelves. About 5 minutes before he got there another man showed up and we started talking. He was hoping to get some .22 for his kid's for Christmas.....long story short they had only received 3 boxes, I bought them and handed them to the guy.....he was shocked And tried to pay me back.....anyway, I stop by Wal-Mart probably once a week and get "lucky" prob once a month. When I hear that the local gun store, who already has a stocked shelf of it and gets it wholesale from many different vendors, has already purchased it all....it kinda leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

And that's where you start to go wrong.  No such thing as a wholesale license, though established businesses can buy from distributors who don't bother doing business with the small fry orders that are the general public.  Like people thinking that buying a case (500 or 1000) rounds should get them some kind of volume discount, when to a wholesaler, volume discounts generally don't start until you're talking more than one pallet at a time.



Also not true.  If *** Guns could buy it from a wholesaler cheaper than schlepping down to wally world with all their employees, they WOULD.  They're buying it at retail from wally world because often that's the ONLY PLACE THAT HAS ANY AT ALL IN STOCK.  Even if they've got some on the shelves at *** Guns, they need to buy more to replace what stock they sell.

Even fairly big retailers like Magnum (mentioned above) who can get multi-pallet orders from wholesalers, can't get it for the low prices big box stores get with large, fixed multi-billion round, multi-million dollar, multi-year supply contracts.  They used to be able to, but demand has forced wholesalers to raise prices on anything they have beyond what their large, fixed contracts require of them, on anything that isn't covered by those contracts.

So the big box stores get most of it at sorta reasonable prices.

Bigger independent stores with large orders get priority on the rest, but at higher wholesale prices.

Everyone else shrivels up and dies or finds ways to acquire product from the big box stores.  Buyers should be glad the big box stores follow their fixed price schemes, giving everyone at least a chance at getting some relatively cheaply.  Until demand and inventory levels stabilize, that's the way it'll remain.

So they don't get it cheaper than I can? And they don't get their gear at wholesale price? I respect that you feel differently than I do, but by saying that I'm wrong in those two areas just makes it look like you want to argue....so, you win....I'm wrong, your right. Goodnight.

Just as I suspected, a nice guy.

I completely understand what you are saying and your anger about it. I think this conversation could have gone a whole lot different if you would have stated, I saw the owner of (name of store) using his employees to buy ammo at Wal-Mart. Then it could have been a whole thread of people arguing if that store is crap or not and those are always great threads to read. In hopes the owner or a friend could have chimed in and talked to some of the points and then we all could decide if we would go there again or not.

From what I know about retail, Wal-Mart plays on its own field and can get things before any store including chains or mom and pop shops. So in that light it is not at all shocking to hear that they have and no one else does. I believe what you are thinking is that businesses can order the ammo at a discount and that is correct, the problem with that is Wal-Mart orders several pallets at a time and their order will go first. So this brings up a point that is even bigger, why is Wal-Mart allowed to be such a monopoly in the market?

So since that discussion has everyone all riled up lets keep this anger train going and talk about how big "Bass" and similar stores use .22 ammo to get people in their store and will not sell it till their big sale even though it is there 2 days before then. Also how they allow minors to hold the ammo for of age people as they go into line multiple times to buy their "limit".

Hey OP, do you really want to get your message out about this store?  Stand outside the front door with a sign that says" Store owner buys his .22 from WM and charges you double"  That will get some heads turning.

Bro I think you have me confused with the guy you were arguing with earlier. I am not angry. A nice guy, well thanks but I think there are a few who would disagree. I do find it odd though that the same people who say "I don't see a problem with them doing that, it's business " then they complain that because of Wal-Mart buying so much, at such a cheap price, the gun store can't get any? and calling people who always buy it "neckbeards"......I'm not totally sure what that means but I have a feeling the owner of the gun store is one.
*****and to the owner or employee of the store in this thread, it's not actually this one scenario that is the reason I choose to not go back to your store.....it's the behavior of some of your employees that I have seen......like making fun of a lady who didn't know anything about guns who was trying to get a gift for her husband for Father's Day......I felt so bad for that woman that I had to fight the urge to slap the employee doing it . anyway, happy Valentine's Day everyone......hopefully your women got you some .22!

I honestly don't care that much......it's not my style anyway. And besides, I wouldn't wanna get beat up by some x-navy seals.

I'm not here to argue, just trying to present the facts of which you seemed to be unaware.  I *am* a small dealer.  I can't get 22lr at all unless I go stand in line at the walmart like you, or pay retail at online dealers or wholesalers - same as you would, except there are order minimums, and I can dilute shipping some by making big(ger) orders.

The very cheapest place in the USA to buy 22lr for the past few years, in less than multi-pallet quantities, is the big box stores, at retail.  If you're a small dealer, you might have your tax certificate on file, saving you sales tax.

Even in multi-pallet quantities, small stores are paying nearly what the big boxers can retail it for, and stores have to mark it up to make any money.  And wholesalers don't have much in the way of unallocated stock for even multi-pallet orders.  The little guys can go suck wind.

As for gear, yeah, they probably get that cheaper than you can.  Up to the individual store to decide if ammo will be their loss leader and hope people buy some gear they actually make something on, as well.

I understand your points and hope your business does well. I know it is their right to do what they do, but I think you can clearly see that the image is not good. "Oh, excuse me Sr, I me and my employees just bought up all the .22....sorry, but come down the block to my store in 5 minutes and I'll gladly sell it to you for 2x the price. Here is my card, tell all your friends to visit us for their gun needs". If I owned the store I would want my image to be different. To each their own and the free market will determine what companies succeed.

I rarely post here.  Guys like this are the reason.  Sometimes there just aren't enough face-palms.

Keep in mind people like him are now listing green tip @ $0.75 per round. But that's ok because it's no longer available.

Speaking of the green tip deal.......I stopped by Cabelas yesterday, nothing....no 223/556 at all, except for a few boxes of match and overpriced steel case.....it was crazy. I swear, I'm so over the whole "scare" bs every 6 months.

The main reason that the other 223/556 stuff is off the shelves is that the dumb masses, which includes many talk radio hosts think that all 223/556 is getting banned.  I'm sure you knew that.  It pains me that people can't/won't do their homework.  At least a coworker who's an EBR owner asked me about it yesterday for clarification as he wasn't buying into the misinformation hype.

On a related note, at least the kid who works at a nearby Wally World knew the difference btwn. M855/SS109 and the M193/55gr fmj.  He didn't think that the green tips were actually scheduled to go bye-bye and thought the directive was just a proposal.