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Posted: 5/7/2017 11:39:30 AM EDT
[#1]
That's not good.... so the item in question WAS at the business at the time of closure? I am assuming the item was paid for at the out of state dealer....where you bought it from. So all they WA business was doing was transferring....
I don't know of this place, but it compares to an auto shop where you brought your car to for repair (waiting on the lot) and then they close up. You own the car, but it is locked in their fence with no contact..... I am not a lawyer, nor play one on the internet.... talk to a firearms lawyer or.... (gulp) call the ATF (which they might say call a lawyer).... The out of state dealer has his FFL logged into his book..... |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 6:39:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Yup, bought/paid for from Mile High Shooting in Colorado. Delivered to SWWS and signed for by one of his employees. When I went to start the transfer process, his shop was closed and sign was posted by WA Dept. Revenue about unpaid taxes. I got his number from someone who was packing things up, called. Left a message and never got a call back. Emailed him, and sent Facebook messages to him. Finally got a reply 7 months later, "Just saw this, do you have F4 in hand?" After that, a reply 8 months later "Oh, let's meet up to transfer" and then disappeared.
BATFE has been even worse, their reply (after I told them the can was delivered and never transfered, and remains unaccounted for by me) was "this is a tax matter, we cannot release any info about it or it's whereabouts." It appears he no longer has his FFL....and I don't know if he sold it to someone else/transferred it/kept it for himself/etc. The can remains unaccounted for, and I paid for it. Complete shit show. |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 6:50:13 PM EDT
[#3]
BATFE's reply: "
Mr. XXXXX- Thank you for providing the information on the suppressor. As you are probably aware, National Firearms Act (NFA) records are protected as tax information via the Internal Revenue Service. We will look into the information you provided. Unfortunately, we are unable to provide you restricted information regarding the NFA weapon." Seattle Field Division |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 8:23:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Did a quick google for you and I saw this post.. they had a email address to email about returning the item.
https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/southwest-washington-surplus-closed.213178/ Is this the company? SECURITY & DEFENSE CONSULTING LLC SW WASHINGTON SURPLUS 10411 NE FOURTH PLAIN BLVD SUITE 108 VANCOUVERWA98662 If so, he doesn't have his FFL anymore and out of business, you might be screwed. I looked up his FFL license under the name SW WASHINGTON SURPLUS/SW Washington Surplus, but didn't see that license for last month.. Looked up his business license and it was closed.. SECURITY & DEFENSE CONSULTING LLCVANCOUVERClosed I'm not sure if he can transfer under a Form 4 if it's sitting on his shelf since it's likely linked to his business. Possibly file it as stolen? Good luck! |
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Posted: 5/7/2017 8:32:26 PM EDT
[#5]
I posted in that thread, hoping someone who has had any problems with the same issue might see it. So far, nothing.
I went to Vancouver PD about it, they said it was a civil matter, so no help there. No help from BATFE. It seems like no one (on the govt side) gives a shit about where the can is. |
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Posted: 5/8/2017 11:02:57 AM EDT
[#6]
Lawyer.
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Posted: 5/8/2017 1:34:27 PM EDT
[#7]
DAMN....this is a cluster for sure!!!
And the ATF can't give you any type of advice.... this is in LIMBO..... (Side note, I wonder if he got closed down by not collecting out of state transfer "use tax"..... and now the business is liable for not collecting.....) |
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Posted: 5/8/2017 9:31:22 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 5/8/2017 11:55:31 PM EDT
[#9]
But, but.... that is YOUR can!? If I recall correctly, it is usually paid for and then the info for the can is included in the application, yes?
How could they NOT provide it when you are the owner?! You paid for it at another dealer.... just like when someone buys a gun out of state from a dealer... it gets transferred. Granted, in the books, it lists it from the dealer that sold you as it being transferred to another dealer and then it is suppose to go to you.... Well, I guess you lawyer up and go after the owner(s) of said former business..... as they have in their possession your can. If they sold it, they had no right to..... it was not their property. You have made every attempt to get it to complete your transaction.... |
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Posted: 5/9/2017 9:22:53 AM EDT
[#10]
just thinking out loud....
the cops won't help, the atf won't help ..... time to find the registered owner of that company and go door knocking. spending money on a lawyer is "throwing good money after bad", thousands to recover hundreds. letting it go? not an option. track the thief down. |
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Posted: 5/9/2017 10:29:48 AM EDT
[#11]
he didn't evaporate....
https://www.swwsafariclub.org/board.htm if it were me, he would want to refund me my money. everybody who knows him, everywhere he goes, my story would be there on a flyer until he paid up. |
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Posted: 5/9/2017 10:53:49 AM EDT
[#12]
Yeah, he didnt disappear....
http://www.merckin.com/about.html Flyer- Do you know Larry Good? He owned SWWS gun store, I paid for a firearm that was sent to him. He closed his store and I want my money or my firearm. If you know how I can reach Larry, please send me an email to [email protected] Stand outside the gunshows, all the businesses he works with, in the neighborhood on phone poles of every neighborhood where a Good is listed in the phone book. Id make sure he knew I wanted my money, and Id make sure everyone who knew him knew he was a thief. ETA- I almost got fucked by a guy in Missouri. I found a friend in the MO hometown, told me everything about the guy, I sent him a picture of his house and told him I would come see him at the gunshow when he was working his booth. That scumbag sent me my money back. |
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Posted: 5/9/2017 8:00:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, he didnt disappear.... http://www.merckin.com/about.html Flyer- Do you know Larry Good? He owned SWWS gun store, I paid for a firearm that was sent to him. He closed his store and I want my money or my firearm. If you know how I can reach Larry, please send me an email to [email protected] Stand outside the gunshows, all the businesses he works with, in the neighborhood on phone poles of every neighborhood where a Good is listed in the phone book. Id make sure he knew I wanted my money, and Id make sure everyone who knew him knew he was a thief. ETA- I almost got fucked by a guy in Missouri. I found a friend in the MO hometown, told me everything about the guy, I sent him a picture of his house and told him I would come see him at the gunshow when he was working his booth. That scumbag sent me my money back. Damn, I could have used your help a few years back, or I should say a friend of mine could have. He bought a couple cans from Axl Ravin out of Spokane, sort of the same thing, up and folded. He relocated and I even had Matt45 stop by his new place but it was always closed and honestly didn't look like it had ever opened. The disco head just dropped off the face. He owes him a OPS12th, AAC 762SD and AAC M4 2000. |
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Posted: 5/9/2017 8:21:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, I could have used your help a few years back, or I should say a friend He has those two connections. The board of safari club? I'm sure they have meetings. Flyer all those cars - with his board picture on it. "I'm sure he is trying to get me my money back, please help us connect" No fucking quarter for thieves. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:02:02 AM EDT
[#15]
You don't need to hire a lawyer. File a case in your local county Small Claims court. You can represent yourself, and if successful you can enforce the judgment against Mr Good's bank account or house, or sell it to a debt collector.
https://www.clark.wa.gov/district-court/small-claims-information Small claims is good for up to $5000. No attorneys allowed either, so he has to appear himself. There is a $29 filing fee. The only other expense is serving the notice of the claim on Mr Good, which you can't do yourself and I'm assuming he is going to be hard to find. I bet a process server will be able to find him and serve him for $50. In my experience, it's easiest just to go ahead and serve people with a small claims lawsuit. They wise up real fast and pay up quick, or you get a default judgement if they don't show up. I used to try to settle beforehand but it's actually less work to file suit than to deal with the scumbags. Good luck! |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 7:50:49 PM EDT
[#16]
That sucks. I see the .gov is about as fucking useless as ever.
I liked that store, I bought a gun at their first location a while back and had a good experience. Location on that site is last location for SWWS.
He's on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/larry.good.585 Funny, we have a mutual friend (an author who I don't actually know). This appears to be what he does now. http://www.first.training/ |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 8:26:29 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 5/10/2017 9:35:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Appreciate all the replies/help!
Small claims case filed, and the ball is rolling on the small claims case 
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Posted: 5/10/2017 9:37:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Appreciate all the replies/help! Small claims case filed, and the ball is rolling on the small claims case |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 12:13:19 AM EDT
[#20]
So, he's affiliated with NW Training Concepts LLC & Merckin. Mentioning them might get some hits on searches that might draw negative attention to his new ventures.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 12:55:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, he's affiliated with NW Training Concepts LLC & Merckin. Mentioning them might get some hits on searches that might draw negative attention to his new ventures. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:07:19 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:46:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Process server will get the documnets, according to Clark Co sheriff, they are "2 weeks or more" behind on service.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 1:47:42 AM EDT
[#24]
I tried the NWTC numbers/contact info last year, numbers disconnected/no reply from emails.
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Posted: 5/11/2017 4:14:03 AM EDT
[#25]
I got my Form 4 from ATF instead of it being mailed to SW WA Surplus. Called to tell them I was coming. Phone disconnected. Drove to their store and lights off doors locked. Sign from WA State Dept of Revenue or some such saying their business licence was pulled for failing to pay back taxes.
Got a hold of Larry on Facebook and arranged a meeting. Got there at meeting time and locksmith was changing locks. Larry showed up and called property owner, was able to get in and get my can. Another customer showed up asking about a can that supposedly had been ordered. Customer had paid in full for it. It was never ordered. Not sure how that played out. Larry had a statement on his site stating he was taking all pending transfers to his home and would complete them from there. I got my shit and ran. For what it's worth, this was my 3rd and last Silencer Shop Direct purchase and SS told me "you wont be out any money" so had I not been able to take possession, they would have replaced the suppressor and stamp at their cost. |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 12:38:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Process server will get the documnets, according to Clark Co sheriff, they are "2 weeks or more" behind on service. 
Please keep us updated.... for reference in case someday this happens to me.... Edit I had something similar happen to me years ago... but it wasn't firearm related. Long story short, I found a member here who lived in Oregon and he happened to be a lawyer... I gave him the info and he just called the guy about the item that he sold me and had not delivered yet (kept stalling, changing delivery dates). Got my item..... it was a semi truck tandem axle converter dolly.... this was back in 2007 or so... Still using the dolly... wasn't quite in the condition he represented, but I was happy just to have gotten it.... |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 11:57:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For what it's worth, this was my 3rd and last Silencer Shop Direct purchase and SS told me "you wont be out any money" so had I not been able to take possession, they would have replaced the suppressor and stamp at their cost. The Stamp wouldn't cost anything to get refunded. ATF would refund you. How long that would take is a different matter.. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 4:12:16 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad you got yours. The Stamp wouldn't cost anything to get refunded. ATF would refund you. How long that would take is a different matter.. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 8:54:45 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 5/21/2017 12:06:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sucks. I see the .gov is about as fucking useless as ever. I liked that store, I bought a gun at their first location a while back and had a good experience. Location on that site is last location for SWWS. He's on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/larry.good.585 Funny, we have a mutual friend (an author who I don't actually know). This appears to be what he does now. http://www.first.training/ |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 12:10:32 AM EDT
[#31]
I noticed that too, privacy setting changed a couple days ago.
What a shit way to screw people over. I have given this guy over a year now, and nothing. I was hoping Vancouver PD would take the case, but sadly they said it was a civil matter. Who knows what the judge will say when the day in court comes? Did he keep the can for himself? Sell it? I hope to hell the judge decides it is a criminal matter at that point, I would press charges in a heartbeat if the opportunity came up. Fuck this guy. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 3:56:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Interested in the outcome of this one. I hope you get square...
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Posted: 5/23/2017 7:06:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interested in the outcome of this one. I hope you get square... |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 8:01:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Clark Co sheriff tried twice to serve him, and returned part of the fee after second attempt.
I have receipt from SOT I bought it from, and UPS delivery confirmation where an employee of SWWS signed for the suppressor when it was delivered. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 11:34:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clark Co sheriff tried twice to serve him, and returned part of the fee after second attempt. The above is a rhetorical question. Do not answer it OP lest ye be in doo doo |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 12:00:38 AM EDT
[#36]
NW Training Concepts, LLC
Weekend Firearms Retailer Workshop Your instructor is an independent entrepreneur with 5 years experience as a firearms retailer and more than 7 years as a firearms trainer. Larry Good is a FEMA certified Basic Instructor, Homeland Security certified law enforcement instructor, NRA Training Counselor, and USAF veteran. He has 5 years of combined experience on the combat zones of Iraq and Afghanistan. Have someone inquire about the Weekend Firearms Retailer Workshop, enroll and serve Larry at the class. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 4:16:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have someone inquire about the Weekend Firearms Retailer Workshop, enroll and serve Larry at the class. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 9:19:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed, I guess you have him served, at this point I'd have the sheriff serve him, fuck a process server. I can't see why this isn't theft? You paid for a item, item has not been delivered, if you have receipts? You didn't happen to get the serial number did you? If you have that, and it shows you paid for it, then it better not be with someone else? ETA I remember a thread on a local board about C and C guns closing up shop with consignment guns and money from them and telling everyone to pound sand. Not sure what came of that one.... |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 11:23:39 PM EDT
[#39]
This reminds me of Casade Arms in Olympia.
RE: Jeremy Beaver, Jeff Hursh |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 2:58:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Any updates/progress?
Fingers crossed for you! |
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Posted: 7/6/2017 12:42:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, I could have used your help a few years back, or I should say a friend of mine could have. He bought a couple cans from Axl Ravin out of Spokane, sort of the same thing, up and folded. He relocated and I even had Matt45 stop by his new place but it was always closed and honestly didn't look like it had ever opened. The disco head just dropped off the face. He owes him a OPS12th, AAC 762SD and AAC M4 2000. |
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Posted: 7/6/2017 7:42:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@mstennes did your friend have approved stamps or serials or did he just pay axle and they were never ordered? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Damn, I could have used your help a few years back, or I should say a friend of mine could have. He bought a couple cans from Axl Ravin out of Spokane, sort of the same thing, up and folded. He relocated and I even had Matt45 stop by his new place but it was always closed and honestly didn't look like it had ever opened. The disco head just dropped off the face. He owes him a OPS12th, AAC 762SD and AAC M4 2000. |
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Posted: 7/6/2017 9:50:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He paid for them, they were transferred to him, he went to fill out the paper work and he was locked up tight. He had a new ao over in the Garland/Shadle Park area Matt45 checked it out but said it looked like no one had been there for a while as mail was stacked up, then he just dropped off the earth. It was Axle Raven if you know who he is? If he had a stamp for any of them then something could be done. Axle sold off his inventory to someone and I know some drama popped up later about one of the cans in the inventory. |
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Posted: 7/6/2017 10:57:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea I know who he is. If he had a stamp for any of them then something could be done. Axle sold off his inventory to someone and I know some drama popped up later about one of the cans in the inventory. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He paid for them, they were transferred to him, he went to fill out the paper work and he was locked up tight. He had a new ao over in the Garland/Shadle Park area Matt45 checked it out but said it looked like no one had been there for a while as mail was stacked up, then he just dropped off the earth. It was Axle Raven if you know who he is? If he had a stamp for any of them then something could be done. Axle sold off his inventory to someone and I know some drama popped up later about one of the cans in the inventory. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 9:02:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any updates/progress? Fingers crossed for you! |
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Posted: 7/24/2017 1:38:02 AM EDT
[#46]
I hope this is a lesson to everyone reading this thread. Use a credit card for consumer protection. The credit card would refund your money, but not the lost transfer time.
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Posted: 7/24/2017 12:58:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Time is the most expensive part of all this NFA bullshit.
Can you sue for lost time? |
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Posted: 7/24/2017 2:31:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope this is a lesson to everyone reading this thread. Use a credit card for consumer protection. The credit card would refund your money, but not the lost transfer time. Rob |
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Posted: 7/25/2017 10:29:54 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the length of time an NFA transaction takes to complete from beginning to end, not sure credit card protection would still help. Don't you have to report the issue within 60 or 90 days of it hitting your bill, or something like that? Rob |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 9:29:17 PM EDT
[#50]
I did 4 transfers through them via SS, my last one was right before they closed.
Best of luck OP. |
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