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Posted: 2/24/2014 11:13:30 PM EDT
Anyone ever run into challenges with this? I know SAF challenged it a while ago and it was amended to remove green card holders, but it still applies to lots of other folks who visit WA, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

I regularly have visitors from overseas and I want to take them shooting at my range, but I can't due to this law, because they are not permitted to possess a firearm (and the range will stop them when they check in with non-US ID). They aren't eligible for an Alien Firearms License as they don't reside in WA. I know some of the ranges will put on a special 'shooting competition' just for foreign visitors (this satisfies the 'any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used' clause in the RCW) but they don't hold these competitions on weekends, it costs extra and did I mention it's stupid?

What puzzles me is the origin of this law, because anti-gun states like California, Hawaii and places like Vegas cater to foreign tourists who want to go shooting, but apparently it's too dangerous for WA? What gives?

I guess my options are to take them hunting, shooting trap (also an exception) or just organize contests on my own private range?



RCW 9.41.171
Alien possession of firearms — Requirements — Penalty.

It is a class C felony for any person who is not a citizen of the United States to carry or possess any firearm, unless the person: (1) Is a lawful permanent resident; (2) has obtained a valid alien firearm license pursuant to RCW 9.41.173; or (3) meets the requirements of RCW 9.41.175.

RCW 9.41.175
Alien possession of firearms — Possession without license — Conditions.

(1) A nonimmigrant alien, who is not a resident of Washington or a citizen of Canada, may carry or possess any firearm without having first obtained an alien firearm license if the nonimmigrant alien possesses:

    (a) A valid passport and visa showing he or she is in the country legally;

    (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and

    (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of the United States; or

    (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country that is contiguous with this state.

    (2) A citizen of Canada may carry or possess any firearm so long as he or she possesses:

    (a) Valid documentation as required for entry into the United States;

    (b) If required under federal law, an approved United States department of justice ATF-6 NIA application and permit for temporary importation of firearms and ammunition by nonimmigrant aliens; and

    (c)(i) A valid hunting license issued by a state or territory of the United States; or

    (ii) An invitation to participate in a trade show or sport shooting event being conducted in this state, another state, or another country that is contiguous with this state.

    (3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used. Nothing in this section shall be construed to allow aliens to hunt or fish in this state without first having obtained a regular hunting or fishing license.
View Quote
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 7:24:53 AM EDT
[#1]
My thinking is this impacts far fewer people than the SBR legislation.  Buy a small game hunting license, go coyote hunting.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 3:59:43 PM EDT
[#2]
I wasnt aware that "possession" included rental guns on the rental range, under the supervision of the RO, or in the company and under the immediate supervision of the legal owner.
Link Posted: 2/25/2014 4:35:06 PM EDT
[#3]
I tried to renew mine last week, then I found out about the "temporary residents only" thing. Cool, got my green card, so don't need it anymore.


Link Posted: 2/26/2014 2:40:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Yeah the state finally dumped the requirement, after a lawsuit I think, for resident aliens (green card holders) a few years ago because it was refusing to issue any at all.
This restriction seems pretty stupid. Maybe too many Canadian hunters were coming down and slaughtering all our endangered deer or something. ***SARCASM****  Or there was some paranoia that a foreigner would buy a gun and then illegally export it.
Link Posted: 2/26/2014 8:29:03 PM EDT
[#5]
And Im sure they charge every illegal gangbanger with this section, right?



Want it gone? Have LaRaza lobby push it through.
Link Posted: 2/26/2014 10:03:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I wasnt aware that "possession" included rental guns on the rental range, under the supervision of the RO, or in the company and under the immediate supervision of the legal owner.
View Quote


That's how Wades and WCA interpret it.
Link Posted: 2/27/2014 8:28:57 AM EDT
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah the state finally dumped the requirement, after a lawsuit I think, for resident aliens (green card holders) a few years ago because it was refusing to issue any at all.



View Quote
I remember when the lawsuit cleared. I had been with an expired permit for months. I didn't know at the time they had changed it from "non-citizen" to "temporary resident".



This time the nice ladies at the Sno Co sheriff's dept corrected me, and said "you don't need that, here is CPL application instead."



 
Link Posted: 3/6/2014 10:01:17 PM EDT
[#8]
I work at Bellevue Gun Club.  The way that we can work with RCW 9.41.175 is to invite non-citizen/non-resident shooters to a "formal shooting competition" that we have called the "International Challenge."  We conduct a brief class on marksmanship with the shooter's firearm of choice and then have a quick shooting test.  It costs an additional $12.00 because I have to have an RSO conduct the class and then coach the shooter through the shooting portion.  Depending on the abilities of the shooter, this can take some time.  We also cannot conduct the "International Challenge" on weekends due to our huge number of shooters on Saturdays and Sundays (we generally have well over 300 shooters check in to shoot on an average Saturday).  I can't pull one of my RSOs on our busiest days of the week for an indeterminate span of time to do the IC, so we encourage our international visitors to come back during the week.

That all said, my limited understanding is that RCW 9.41.175 is strange.  I don't--off the top of my head--know of other states that have similar laws.
Link Posted: 3/9/2014 4:00:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I work at Bellevue Gun Club.  The way that we can work with RCW 9.41.175 is to invite non-citizen/non-resident shooters to a "formal shooting competition" that we have called the "International Challenge."  We conduct a brief class on marksmanship with the shooter's firearm of choice and then have a quick shooting test.  It costs an additional $12.00 because I have to have an RSO conduct the class and then coach the shooter through the shooting portion.  Depending on the abilities of the shooter, this can take some time.  We also cannot conduct the "International Challenge" on weekends due to our huge number of shooters on Saturdays and Sundays (we generally have well over 300 shooters check in to shoot on an average Saturday).  I can't pull one of my RSOs on our busiest days of the week for an indeterminate span of time to do the IC, so we encourage our international visitors to come back during the week.

That all said, my limited understanding is that RCW 9.41.175 is strange.  I don't--off the top of my head--know of other states that have similar laws.
View Quote


Thanks Brett. Do you guys turn away many non-citizens? It seems like there is a good tourist range business in states like Nevada and Hawaii (go figure, one of most 2A unfriendly states in the Union).

I wonder if there would be any support for repealing this law from local ranges?

I've enquired about your International Challenge. I appreciate that you guys do it, but I want to take my visitors to the range on the weekend, to shoot my guns, on my own terms.
Link Posted: 3/9/2014 9:08:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks Brett. Do you guys turn away many non-citizens? It seems like there is a good tourist range business in states like Nevada and Hawaii (go figure, one of most 2A unfriendly states in the Union).

I wonder if there would be any support for repealing this law from local ranges?

I've enquired about your International Challenge. I appreciate that you guys do it, but I want to take my visitors to the range on the weekend, to shoot my guns, on my own terms.
View Quote


Complying with RCW 9.42.175 can be a pain.  The primary reason that we don't (as a general principle) offer it on weekends is just because it's so manpower-intensive.  When you get a group of seven international students from UW coming in who have never seen a firearm before, you have to start from the ground up in teaching everything about shooting.  With even the smallest hint of a language barrier mixed in, it can be pretty stressful for the instructor and the RSOs that are out in the bays.  Concepts like keep the firearm in the booth on the firing line, keep your finger off of the trigger, and not pointing the muzzle at things you don't want to shoot are pretty deeply ingrained in most 'gun people' and the overwhelming majority of people that want to learn pick them up relatively quickly, but I'd estimate that about half of the folks coming in to participate in the International Challenge don't really want to learn anything; they just want an experience, if that makes any sense.

As for turning people away, it happens.  Not very often, but sometimes.  If people forget their passports, or they don't have current visas, or they come in on weekends, I explain everything and invite them to come back in the near future.
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