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Posted: 10/24/2016 6:08:19 PM EDT
Well?
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Posted: 10/24/2016 6:28:08 PM EDT
[#1]
10MM - THE WAY TO GO
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Posted: 10/24/2016 6:39:52 PM EDT
[#2]
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 7:37:54 PM EDT
[#3]
What do you mean? 40 cal is still the caliber for uspsa limited major.
So its not going anywhere but most of those guys reload. So if youre talking about retail ammo sales 40 is mo money than 9mm. So the rec shooters are probably gonna shoot the cheaper ammo. Just my $0.02 from the other side of the phone/counter. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 8:23:41 PM EDT
[#4]
I shoot the heck out of it.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 8:38:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round. Spot on. .40 is an answer for a question that was never asked. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 9:57:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spot on. .40 is an answer for a question that was never asked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round. Spot on. .40 is an answer for a question that was never asked. Actually, the FBI asked the question and had the cash to back it up with a massive contract. The problem is that it was a transitory question: What is the smallest, lightest recoiling hollow point handgun bullet that will expand reliably with today's technology? In 1990 or so, when the FBI was looking for a new handgun, the answer was .40 caliber with a 4.5"- 5" barrel. In the early 2000s, it was full size 9mm. Today, specialty HP ammo for <3.5" 9mms is GTG and some .380ACPs HPs are also starting to look good. The fact that .40 cal now costs as much, if not more than .45acp, does it no favors on the market either. It is the #1 textbook example of an obsolete round. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 10:56:32 PM EDT
[#7]
I shoot the F*** out of it.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 11:06:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Mall ninjas see mall ninjas do what law enforcement does so they can stay with the times just so they can still be tactical hipsters.
ETA: Placeholder so sidesalad can get his licks in after he see's this post 
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Posted: 10/24/2016 11:12:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot the F*** out of it. Free ammo from the Dept? |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 1:04:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Free ammo from the Dept? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I shoot the F*** out of it. Free ammo from the Dept? Well, that too. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 10:46:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Well, it's my carry round from way back in 2000 or so, and it's a USPC, so I'm not getting rid of it...
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:30:38 AM EDT
[#12]
I liked the .40. I had a G22 has my duty weapon for 10+ years.
Agency switched to 9mm or .45 few years ago and issued guns. I switch all my .40 guns over to 9mm just to be consistent and ease of stocking 1 caliber. Plus with the advances in 9mm SD ammo in the last 10 years or so, I don't see a huge advantage sticking with .40. That said, I REALLY want to get a 10mm... 
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:41:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Old old old discussion - use the search function. This is the "auto vs. revolver" argument of our time.
' I'm old school - I like making lots of big holes in stuff - so all my CCW guns are .40S&W. I also shoot USPSA Limited, so .40 makes sense for me to reload. It is fashionable today to claim that modern projectile design makes the 9mm "the same" as a .40 or .45. What is not so often mentioned is that the same projectile technology that improved 9mm ALSO improved .40 and .45 by similar increments. Given that all handgun calibers are marginal stoppers (compared with long guns), then I'll take all the help I can get thanks. Also, in the event that the bulet does not expand as expected (e.g. due to intermediate barrier, act of God, whatever), the .40/.45 still makes acceptable holes, the 9mm not so much.. Bear in mind also that many 9mm defensive loads are +P, so recoil is not that much less than a .40. You do get more rounds though. Is 9mm a more viable defensive round than in the past? YES. Does "new" 9mm make .40/.45 obsolete? HELL NO. I am not interested in an internet argument, but want to counter the fashionable narrative that may be a bit misleading. We are, after all, talking life or death here. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:45:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Old old old discussion - use the search function. This is the "auto vs. revolver" argument of our time. ' I'm old school - I like making lots of big holes in stuff - so all my CCW guns are .40S&W. I also shoot USPSA Limited, so .40 makes sense for me to reload. It is fashionable today to claim that modern projectile design makes the 9mm "the same" as a .40 or .45. What is not so often mentioned is that the same projectile technology that improved 9mm ALSO improved .40 and .45 by similar increments. Given that all handgun calibers are marginal stoppers (compared with long guns), then I'll take all the help I can get thanks. Also, in the event that the bulet does not expand as expected (e.g. due to intermediate barrier, act of God, whatever), the .40/.45 still makes acceptable holes, the 9mm not so much.. Bear in mind also that many 9mm defensive loads are +P, so recoil is not that much less than a .40. You do get more rounds though. Is 9mm a more viable defensive round than in the past? YES. Does "new" 9mm make .40/.45 obsolete? HELL NO. I am not interested in an internet argument, but want to counter the fashionable narrative that may be a bit misleading. We are, after all, talking life or death here. Claims to be "old school"..... Shoots a caliber that was invented in the 90s.....
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Posted: 10/25/2016 2:09:19 PM EDT
[#15]
I see no problem with the 40S&W, in fact with a hand load of mine using a 165 grain Remington Golden Saber over Longshot powder I get great accuracy and 1220 to 1240 fps from a 4 inch barrel . I would think that would do the job for SD carry .
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Posted: 10/25/2016 3:28:23 PM EDT
[#16]
For non-gaming concerns, there's no benefit over 9mm and a couple of detractions- snappier recoil and less magazine capacity per given volume.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 3:50:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 4:46:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round. How many rounds you need is a function of you ability to hit your target/ targets . If capacity is an issue then get a Glock 22 or similar hi cap 40 with a couple of spare mags. 
A gun is a tool ,and if the operator doe's his job it wont make much difference with good shot placement between a 9mm and a 40 . I prefer a 45acp or a 10mm , but I would not feel at a disadvantage with a 40 . If I were a LEO I would train and get proficient with what ever the department issued. As far as the FBI , they have had a lot of credibility issues here of late and can no longer be considered trust worthy .In fact they and our current DOJ are nothing more than puppets of a corrupt political party . IMHO there is nothing wrong with the 40S&W for those that can shoot it well . 
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:26:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Haven't plenty of agencies also reported lethality and stopping power issues with the .40?
That it was overpenetrating and not bringing people down? Could've sworn I heard a lot of national LEO departments and even the FBI pretty quickly switched away from 40 and back to 9 and 45 due to its performance - or lack thereof. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:35:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, that too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot the F*** out of it. Free ammo from the Dept? Well, that too. Pretty much this. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:37:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haven't plenty of agencies also reported lethality and stopping power issues with the .40? That it was overpenetrating and not bringing people down? Could've sworn I heard a lot of national LEO departments and even the FBI pretty quickly switched away from 40 and back to 9 and 45 due to its performance - or lack thereof. Pistols in general. Rifles > Pistols /thread. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 5:58:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pistols in general. Rifles > Pistols /thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Haven't plenty of agencies also reported lethality and stopping power issues with the .40? That it was overpenetrating and not bringing people down? Could've sworn I heard a lot of national LEO departments and even the FBI pretty quickly switched away from 40 and back to 9 and 45 due to its performance - or lack thereof. Pistols in general. Rifles > Pistols /thread. I don't disagree. That said, if the .40 cal ballistics in regards to stopping people was found to be subpar to 9mm by numerous departments across the country, I'd say that paints a pretty vivid picture as to why there's little reason at all for that caliber. If you get more lethality, higher capacity, more controllability, and less expensive ammo...well... 
I've never understood the argument of if you can shoot it well. I can shoot .40s plenty well. I once owned one, and one of my oldest buddies whom I shoot with a lot owns one that I still shoot quite a bit as well. Just because you can shoot a 40 well, it doesn't mean you can't shoot a 9 better in a lot of scenarios. And not that I care, but even NATO dubbed the .40 cal inhumane as it's more a wounding round. This goes into play with similar issues agencies around the country had reported for going away from that caliber. It seems to overall not be very effective as a people stopper. Frankly, that makes it pretty worthless all around for me. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:04:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Cost issue for me. Another caliber to stock up on? No thanks. Trying to square away my 5.56 and 9 stashes before the election. Wish I had about ten thousand more rounds of each......
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:08:32 PM EDT
[#24]
So which one, 9mm vs. .45 ACP?
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Posted: 10/25/2016 6:25:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So which one, 9mm vs. .45 ACP? |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 4:13:37 PM EDT
[#26]
I suspect the primary motivation for a PD to switch to 9mm would be for its shootability more than its terminal effectiveness. Most cops are not gun people (if you saw them shoot in a practical shooting competition, you would be horrified), and so I imagine just getting through qualification/requalification can be a challenge. Giving them a gun that is easier to shoot is probably deemed more efficient than teaching them to shoot better. If the ammo companies are telling them that the latest ammo is up to that task, That gives them the cover they need.
I am with Eddie Rhodes: 9mm Makes You Weak
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Posted: 10/27/2016 3:21:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect the primary motivation for a PD to switch to 9mm would be for its shootability more than its terminal effectiveness. Most cops are not gun people (if you saw them shoot in a practical shooting competition, you would be horrified), and so I imagine just getting through qualification/requalification can be a challenge. Giving them a gun that is easier to shoot is probably deemed more efficient than teaching them to shoot better. If the ammo companies are telling them that the latest ammo is up to that task, That gives them the cover they need. I am with Eddie Rhodes: 9mm Makes You Weak Considering that differences in terminal ballistics with quality bullets between 9mm, .40, and .45 are near negligible, it's the other characteristics that are going to make or break it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 12:13:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Well? You're either woefully misinformed or suffering from a raging case of confirmation bias! 
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Posted: 10/30/2016 12:24:46 AM EDT
[#29]
The .40 short will be around for a long time, just like the .38 special.
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Posted: 10/30/2016 12:32:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Free ammo from the Dept? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I shoot the F*** out of it. Free ammo from the Dept? About 1/2. So there is that.... |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 12:41:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The .40 short will be around for a long time, just like the .38 special. Although I prefer to call it 10mm diet lite. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 12:43:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
About 1/2. So there is that.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot the F*** out of it. Free ammo from the Dept? About 1/2. So there is that....
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Posted: 10/30/2016 5:06:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More kick than 9mm with less capacity and indistinguishable wound channels. Obsolete round. Essentially this. The only real advantage to the .40 these days is better barrier performance. (specifically windshield glass) The FBI and Police changed en-mass to the .40 due to the Miami shootout, where a 147 grain Winchester slug failed to incapacitate the bad guy, so they wanted something bigger and they were biased against the .45. Turns out only about 5% of LEO are "gun guys", everyone else shoots once a year when they have to qualify. For some reason, the cops have an easier time qualifying shooting 9mm compared to .40. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 8:53:49 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're either woefully misinformed or suffering from a raging case of confirmation bias!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well? You're either woefully misinformed or suffering from a raging case of confirmation bias!
I only ask because ten years ago, it was a super popupular caliber, and now, I've not even seen one in any of the classes I attend. It used to be my primary carry and all my guns were in .40 Now, I've converted over to 9mm, and really the only people who actually willingly shoot .40 dont pay for their own ammunition.....So interpret how you must, but the lack of .40 shooters are there! |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 4:02:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I only ask because ten years ago, it was a super popupular caliber, and now, I've not even seen one in any of the classes I attend. It used to be my primary carry and all my guns were in .40 Now, I've converted over to 9mm, and really the only people who actually willingly shoot .40 dont pay for their own ammunition.....So interpret how you must, but the lack of .40 shooters are there! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Well? You're either woefully misinformed or suffering from a raging case of confirmation bias!
I only ask because ten years ago, it was a super popupular caliber, and now, I've not even seen one in any of the classes I attend. It used to be my primary carry and all my guns were in .40 Now, I've converted over to 9mm, and really the only people who actually willingly shoot .40 dont pay for their own ammunition.....So interpret how you must, but the lack of .40 shooters are there! That's the only reason these days why anyone should shoot .40...if they get free ammo. 
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Posted: 11/1/2016 12:29:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Well, I don't get free ammo but I have so damn much 40 ammo stockpiled that I'll have to shoot the caliber for a long time into the future. Even though I now only own one 40 S&W handgun I'll have to burn through all the 40 ammo since you can't really sell the stuff anymore. It really does seem that hardly anyone wants the caliber anymore. That's quite a change from not too many years ago when the 40 was considered the darling of handgun calibers,
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