My wife and I went to Blue Martini at a high Street this weekend. We haven't been there in nine years since we lived in Tampa. High street is full of nice places but I saw the no gun signs at ever restaurant. They had them inside by the bar too like they are suppose to.

It's time to hold these idiots accountable. We need the law passed that holds them responsible like....damn, what's the latest state to pass that law....can't remember.

You don't want me to bring my gun?  Provide me armed security and you're responsible if/when some criminal ignores your sign.

I really would love to speak to one of these owners. Is it an insurance thing?  Or are they really that stupid?  They create victim zones.

What gun?

Go to a place that doesn't have the sign.  Eat, drink and be merry.  Then tomorrow send a copy of the receipt you paid to the manager of the Blue Martini with a note that says "I spent this at your competitor's place because you don't want me at your place due to your No Guns policy".

Money, and the loss of it, is the only thing that can sway them to change.

Did you really just call for more laws?

"Hey let's get the government involved and have them make people do what I want."

You sound like a liberal....







Why not just go somewhere else?

Really shouldn't be pretty much admitting to breaking the law on public forums, and telling others to do so as well.



^This

I'm actually happy business owners are given a choice of the matter.

Just shows who is supporting and who isn't.


They shouldn't be forced to do either.

Businesses should have the right to choose who they serve.



They dont want gun carriers in their business, so dont go there.....

Well, my wife and I like to go out to eat and telling my wife most of the places we like to go are off the list isn't going to fly.

And don't get me wrong, in s true free country business owners should be able to refuse business to anyone, for any reason. Totally. Tall, fat, gay, black, white, whatever.

However...

1. The government likes to tell them what they have to do already, so they can do it for something they actually should.

2. Freedoms means responsibility. Period. If you're going to tell me I can defend myself in your place then you're responsible for my safety, end of story. Me having a choice to go there it not is irrelevant. Obfuscation to avoid the real issue.

The bottom line is I'm sick of anti's. I'm sick of compromising with them. I'm sick of hearing their dumb mouth. They want to take our freakin rights. Makes me so mad I'm about to spontaneously combust lol.

They don't want to take responsibility for their freedom?  Fine. Force it on them like they want to force their views on us. Look at it this way. If someone is in my house and hurts themselves I get sued for not having a safe house.

This, just don't spend money there tactic is weak. Those places are all packed. We were there Friday and Saturday. They don't care if we don't go there.

I guess I'm just in the minority with how really annoyed I am that things have gotten so bad.

And typically yes, I agree. No more laws. But it's time for the anti's to squirm when a law is passed and not is.

Businesses should have the choice.

Just because you, and I, and most everyone else on this board carry daily and enjoy the freedom to do so, doesn't mean that everyone does.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't care for firearms, or even hates them... of course they don't want them in their place of business, and I can respect their choice to do so. It is THEIR business, that they have busted their ass to build. I just won't give them my money plain and simple.

To force new legislation on business owners that don't want firearms in their establishments, to make them provide armed security, makes you no better than the liberals that try to force their beliefs on you.

The 2nd amendment only provides us the guarantee that Congress shall not make any laws that infringe on our God given right to bare arms... it does not apply to the private sector. If they don't want guns, they let you know. The sign is there to protect them in the instance that something goes down in their establishment, they won't be held accountable. Will it stop a bad guy? Nope.

Fuck the places that don't want guns , don't encourage them by giving them your money .

What signs?
Concealed is Concealed.

This.

You really shouldn't be pretty much admitting to breaking the law on public forums, and telling others to do so as well.


May I remind you of the laws with bars here.

-Cannot carry in bars that are posted.
-Cannot carry in a bar without a CCW, and you cannot drink if you are. Provided they are not posted.

I get all of that but like I said rights and freedoms carry responsibly. If you fall down in my house due to something I've neglected I'm responsible. So if a business owner is creating a place where bad things can happen then logically they must be responsible for what ensues. Now some may argue that line of thinking but the precedent is already there.

Yeah, I know. But to be honest, the more I be honest with myself, it's not just the sign. I'm just so sick of it. I'm flabbergasted that it's even a thing. It should be as unquestioned as humans needing oxygen. It's in the Bill of Rights.

The fact that we've let it get so bad makes me sad. And pissed off. I'm just over it. It's time to stop compromising with these idiots. It's time to start shoving it down their throats like they do to us.

It seems way to many gun owners are lax about it because it's something we already have. So we ignore the anti's chipping away at it.  

Not only do we need to stop compromising but we need to start reversing laws. We need politicians who will say gun laws are unconstitutional and will be summarily ignored/taken off the books.

Know what the law is but like they said "Concealed is Concealed".  If they see me carry they can ask me to leave and I will gladly leave.  

Sounds like your wife has CHOSEN to go to the restaurant over your safety.  My wife and I simply don't go somewhere that doesn't allow guns.  But my wife has also chosen to carry a gun everyday just like me.  Just like if a place had a sign that said not mexicans or black or any other race, I would not in anyway support them.  Yes it does restrict where we can eat but hey that is my choice!


So since the government already make lots of stupid laws you want another one? Very liberal of you.


It your choice to go into the place, you are responsible for your own safety!


Then support and join organizations that fight for your rights and try to remove gun laws not add more.


You don't like the government restricting your freedoms, so your answer is to restrict their.  Again very liberal or you.

It is the establishments CHOICE not to allow guns inside just like it is your CHOICE to go there.

You should remember concealed is concealed. How can they prove I saw the sign?  What would I be doing where my gun is visible and someone would ask me to leave the premises? The only time my gun is out is when lives are on the line. At that point Fuck your sign!

I tend to carry in any restaurant I want.  What is it that you do not understand about the word concealed?  Be normal, don't drink and carry deep.  If you need it absolutely no one will care and when the smoke clears all you will get is someone asking you to leave.  Join the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network run by Marty Hayes and Massad Ayoob.

Ya know, sometimes it's hard to remember what State I'm in.  

It is legal to carry concealed or openly in a bar or restaurant, even while consuming alcohol. One cannot possess a firearm if their blood alcohol content is more than .10 BAC (NRS 202.257). It is legal to carry inside a casino, on the Las Vegas Strip, or at the Fremont Street Experience.

www.nevadacarry.org/

Nevada has come a long way on gun rights. From your link this caught my eye.

TPNI. Concealed means concealed.

 

Though it will be my last visit. I dont continue to give money to businesses that are anti-gun.

I never admitted anything, simply agreeing to a truism.

Freedom is scary. Either go elsewhere or just carry.
A pox on the liberal logic that wants to force a business to conform to our viewpoint.

Sorry guys, there are lots of places that don't allow guns, that's just a fact we have to live with. If you don't want to patronize a business that doesn't allow guns, that's fine, but you won't ever go to a baseball game, Disneyland, most shopping centers, or a ton of other places. There are plenty of places worth going that don't allow guns. If you want to limit your experiences in life as well as your family's, I guess that's your choice. Sounds like a boring existence to me...

NAILED IT.



Do this every time, the squeaky wheel gets greased. These no gun signs are popping up because no one is bitching.



 

Works for me.....

Oh no, not a misdemeanor trespassing charge!  

Pretty much this.

I don't like the "no gun" signs, but my wife and I aren't gonna miss out on eating at some of the best restaurants in the valley because of them. Or spring training baseball, etc, etc.

It's their right to post those signs as much as it's your right to own a firearm. You don't own their establishments.

If you don't want to do business with them, that's your right too.

And as some others have said, concealed is concealed...

I couldn't imagine never being able to visit Yosemite...

For people who try to present themselves as 'law-abiding citizens' and set a good example for gun owners, some you seem more than willing to break the law when it doesn't suite your views.

Very liberal type of thinking there.

Civil Disobedience to bad laws used to be an American thing. Unlike liberals, I am more than willing to take my punishment if I get caught. I long for the days when Americans where not such push overs.

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.” - RA Heinlein

I find laws and rules that ask me to become a victim obnoxious and intolerable. You live your life how you want, I'll live mine how I want.

None of those sound like places I want to go so that work.

1. I sure don't need more gov. in my personal business.
2. A business / owner should be able to practice the way it wants too
3. I don't agree with how someone runs their business, I go somewhere else.
4. Concealed means concealed.



Eta: I think there is a list of gun friendly places at the top of the AZHTF page ?

Well technically all gun laws are unconstitutional anyway, so are you really "breaking the law". The highest law of our land is the U.S. Constitution and it clearly states the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed", so who is the real criminal? The guy quietly exercising his 2nd amendment right and hurting no one or the politicians who allow it to be shit on.





Keep in mind I'm not advocating that people should break the law, just acknowledging that we live by an extreme double standard. Black people burnt down buildings, attacking random people, raided stores, and attacked police last night in North Carolina. Are those not crimes? Yet you can go watch the footage right now and watch as the police stand idly by and arrest no one. Rioting is a crime, j-walking is a crime, blocking traffic is a crime, disturbing the peace is a crime, etc. Yet every few months we just allow people do to those things. The quiet gun owners following the supreme law of the land and ignoring unconstitutional laws aren't the problem.

 

You may have a point; in Arizona it's illegal for donkeys to sleep in bathtubs and that seems to be pretty effective. Maybe it's just time for you and your wife to explore other restaurants. Yeah, you'll find some lemons and some just so-so, but you're exploring together and she'll probably enjoy and appreciate just that. And, you'll eventually find that nugget.

Other postings about money are right. Businesses and people in general follow the path of least resistance, and facts are that most people just don't care about gun laws in restaurants; they're out for a nice time and won't care either way until that day when they're personally involved in an ugly situation. THEN they'll think about it real hard and probably come to the conclusion that a) if there were no guns it would never have happened, b) the police should've gotten there sooner. SOME will wish they had something to defend themselves with.

People would rather go to swanky places and have blissfully ignorant fun than be responsible for themselves. Personal responsibility requires accountability and Elvis left the building a long, long time ago.

And here I thought you were just happy to see me.

I'm pretty suprised at some of the lac response to this.

Guys, the "just don't go to that restaurant" is short sighted thinking. It doesn't accomplish anything. It ignores the problem. As I've already pointed out these places are packed. They aren't missing our money. Yes business should always be looking to make as much as possible buthour wait times shows they aren't hurting.

It's not like it's going to get better. More and more places will post them. It's just like gun laws. You guys just run away when the not so bad laws are passed and say, "well it doesn't affect me". Well sooner or later it will and they are harder to get rid of the longer we wait.

And I've already gone over the "it's their property" topic. Yes, it is. And it's suppose to be their choice even though they government already forced them to serve "protected" groups. But with that freedom comes responsibility. If they don't want me to have the best option to protect myself then they are on the hook for it. It's as simple as that. They are specifically creating the potential for trouble and we've seen it happen. I'm not trying to force them to allow my gun on their property but they need to be responsible for that decision if something happens. That's not unreasonable at all. All of us are responsible for the many decisions we make throughout the day.

It's no different than me asking people to buy lemonade from my stand at my house and having conditions that could lead to customers getting hurt. I'd be on the hook for it. Ilthats a fact. We can't keep letting the gov and the left keep getting away with their hypocritical laws and views.

As a group we argue and disagree WAY too much which is why we are losing. Sad. There should be no debate. Our slogan should be "Guns. No questions asked, period" lol.

And don't even get me started on people who get offended/uneasy at the sight of a gun. Who gives a fuck what brainwashed cowards think. Seriously I'm for reasonable requests for making people feel at ease but when your phobia is born out of nothing but ooga booga brainwashing I have little patience for it.

Here's the problem with your analogy and your overall argument:

If the business had some code violation (not enough exits, adequate fire system, etc) that could be remedied BEFORE an incident happened, then you could have the city, state, whatever, force the business to get in compliance. Or you could sue them afterward if an incident occurred because they weren't in compliance.

The issue here is, there is no code or standard for prevention of criminal activity. You cannot force a business to provide you with "foolproof protection from criminal activity" because no such standard exists. Even if the business provided armed security, a crime could still occur. What then? Would you still sue them because, though they provided you with "protection from criminal activity," a crime still did occur?

You, as a patron of a PRIVATE business, are accepting "their business, their rules (within the law, of course)" when you patronize their business. Don't like it, go elsewhere.

That's irrelevant. They are creating the potential for bodily harm. It's be shown that you can be held accountable for that. It's also precedence that you can also be held accountable before an event even occurs.

And the go elsewhere but is a weak argument that's already been covered. Yes it's their business but it's already established that it's not always their rules. The left forces them to bow down to its causes all the time.

What do of you are missing is I don't want to force anyone to do anything that already isn't the norm in almost every other aspect of grown up life. Be responsible for your decision. They are held to that standard already with other things for crying out loud.

If we take your line of thinking to its end then why should business have to abide by any codes or standards?  Who cares if the roof is about to fall in and the floor collapse. Don't like it?  Don't go there. That's what you're ultimately saying. You're talking out of both sides if your face. Business should be told what to do with their private property but only with certain things.

And of course nothing is fool proof. Even if I have my gun. But the business is going above and beyond to create even more of a victim zone than if they didn't have to signs. That is what negates that portion of your argument.

So either let them run their property completely how they want and you choose to go there OR make them be responsible for their decisions. Like every other aspect of life whether or not I have a choice to go their is a tangent. Obfuscation. Has no bearing on whether or not they are held accountable for creating a zone that's even more unsafe than if they did not post the no gun sign.

Then, I think your only remedy at this point is to hire some lawyers and start repealing laws. Is that what you want to hear?

Because I am hearing three things:

1) I don't want to force my gun on a business, and

2) If I cannot take my gun into a business, then they are responsible for my safety, and

3) I don't want any more laws.

Only you are responsible for your own safety.

Freedom means letting other people do things you don't like. Government should only get involved when someone breaks your leg or picks your pocket.

If you get attacked in a restaurant it's the fault of the attacker, not the bar that put up a sign. You made a personal choice to enter that establishment and assumed the risk if you choose to obey that sign.

All your 'solutions' are out of the liberal playbook.

QFT

No gun signs?

"I can't see shit"

-Ray Charles